DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,551
|
Post by DanMcQ on Sept 27, 2009 8:22:21 GMT -5
|
|
hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
|
Post by hoyaalf on Sept 28, 2009 11:55:40 GMT -5
I would not like my child to attend this school with these bums he;s recruiting.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Sept 28, 2009 12:25:31 GMT -5
I would not like my child to attend this school with these bums he;s recruiting. Do you think your child would be in danger? Or that he would get hooked on crack? What's your concern?
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 28, 2009 13:30:08 GMT -5
|
|
hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
|
Post by hoyaalf on Sept 29, 2009 9:14:58 GMT -5
My concern is that the SUNY Bing b'ball program represents Bing. as the Orange do SU.
What's beneath the surface?
|
|
JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
|
Post by JimmyHoya on Sept 30, 2009 11:56:52 GMT -5
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Sept 30, 2009 12:10:54 GMT -5
Pete Thamel, a SUcks grad, has been hammering on Binghamton for a long time. He's got a serious axe to grind. Kornheiser lit into him last week on the radio for misquoting him big time.
|
|
JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
|
Post by JimmyHoya on Sept 30, 2009 12:37:15 GMT -5
Fair enough. I was unaware of that aspect and good for Tony K.
That said, I appreciated him a great deal while he was here, but he really needs to keep his distance for awhile.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 30, 2009 12:40:27 GMT -5
It's sad cause just last year I was thinking wow we have the first successful branch of the JTIII coaching tree. Guess not.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 30, 2009 12:53:33 GMT -5
I guess this issue is one of degree with me. I have no doubt that similar issues arise and have arisen in other programs, including at the NCAA sacred cows. There was disappointment over the UCONN laptop scandal, among others, but Williams and Price were not run out of town indefinitely, and there certainly was not an effort to purge the program of players whose offenses had not been made public or subjected the university to nationwide embarassment.* Jim Calhoun was inducted to the HOF subsequent to the scandal IIRC. That's something.
There is another question here, which is to what extent do we expect that players have or will break drug possession laws vis-a-vis marijuana. I think it is a bit much to highlight the purported crack offense while forgetting about the herbal offenses, which are more socially acceptable. The law has still been broken. How many programs have herbal problems, I would ask. I suspect you'd find that somewhere between 30 and 50 percent do if there was a strict drug testing regime were in place. Think back to when you were on the Hilltop and whether there were at least some rumors in this area - no need to divulge them here. That's a problem, but nonetheless the McAlarneys can have a semester penalty or whatever it was and a form of hush-hush with the authorities.
No doubt that Broadus should clean things up, but his program should not be held out as an exception to the rule or some rogue.
* At UCONN, there are player purges for other reasons, such as basketball ability.
|
|
JS
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 290
|
Post by JS on Sept 30, 2009 13:46:45 GMT -5
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Oct 1, 2009 11:00:57 GMT -5
What the hell is an "herbal program"?
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 1, 2009 11:06:46 GMT -5
Weed - I think I said or intended to say "herbal problem"
|
|
theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
|
Post by theexorcist on Oct 1, 2009 11:55:55 GMT -5
I guess this issue is one of degree with me. I have no doubt that similar issues arise and have arisen in other programs, including at the NCAA sacred cows. There was disappointment over the UCONN laptop scandal, among others, but Williams and Price were not run out of town indefinitely, and there certainly was not an effort to purge the program of players whose offenses had not been made public or subjected the university to nationwide embarassment.* Jim Calhoun was inducted to the HOF subsequent to the scandal IIRC. That's something. There is another question here, which is to what extent do we expect that players have or will break drug possession laws vis-a-vis marijuana. I think it is a bit much to highlight the purported crack offense while forgetting about the herbal offenses, which are more socially acceptable. The law has still been broken. How many programs have herbal problems, I would ask. I suspect you'd find that somewhere between 30 and 50 percent do if there was a strict drug testing regime were in place. Think back to when you were on the Hilltop and whether there were at least some rumors in this area - no need to divulge them here. That's a problem, but nonetheless the McAlarneys can have a semester penalty or whatever it was and a form of hush-hush with the authorities. No doubt that Broadus should clean things up, but his program should not be held out as an exception to the rule or some rogue. * At UCONN, there are player purges for other reasons, such as basketball ability. Really? You're defending Binghamton? I'll just quote from the Post article. 1. Felony sale of cocaine. Not marijuana. COCAINE. 2. One shoplifting arrest. 3. Two players recruited after getting kicked out of St. John's and Rutgers - neither a traditional paragon of straight-arrows. 4. The recruiting of someone who beat another player into a coma. The Bearcats didn't have a chance to throw him off the team, of course, because he FLED THE COUNTRY. 5. Courtesy of Deadspin, almost all of the players were majoring in Human Development, whose chair was a "big fan" of Bearcat basketball. This is not the times for comparison to UConn or Syracuse, where felonies are rare. All of this happened over the course of about a year. The last two times something close to this magnitude happened, St. John's fired its coach, kicked a lot of players off the team, and forfeited playing in the BET (the strip club incident), while St. Bonaventure fired the coach and the president, forfeited all the games it had won, was banned from the conference tournament, had the players decide not to play the last two games, and led to the suicide of the head of the board of trustees (whom everyone agreed was blameless but whose suicide note read "I let Bona down"). Syracuse and UConn don't run clean programs, but they're far above what is apparently a cesspool of a program.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 1, 2009 12:44:21 GMT -5
I think most of us can do without the lecture on when "it is [] the time" for analysis. You may notice that, at no point, do I "defend" Binghamton. Indeed, I have pointed out that Broadus should clean the place up, assuming he has the opportunity to do so. I am hard pressed to name any venue where "other people do it too" is an acceptable defense. As such, you seem to be arguing into the wind.
Your shadow-boxing nonetheless assumes that the universe of cases of this kind are known. I don't agree.
Another assumption is that we should think worse of certain programs based on degree of offense. I disagree. I don't think law-breaking should be tolerated in any form by these public institutions. Yet, it is, and some even cover up for it intentionally or by shielding players through application of the Student Code of Conduct. I don't like that. I may even be lenient here in drawing the line. I think some on this board would have run Pitino out of town for hooking up with an acquaintance on a restaurant table and attempting to cover it up, although it does not appear as though he broke the law.
You might be surprised to learn that SU has suspended players for serious things (Todd Burgan comes to mind in the not so recent past, but Deshaun Williams is also up there in the idiot category). The girlfriend beating goes beyond the Devendorf behavior, and it occurs at other schools, particularly in football programs.* It happens at some more than others. Yet, I have NEVER read a story that these programs have a problem.
As to #4, who is to blame for a flight issue? Are we tearing down Roman Polanski's family/friends, or are we seeking to bring Roman Polanski to justice? I see a difference and find your argument to be stronger in other areas, to put it politely.
*SU fans were not happy with Boeheim last season after the Devendorf thing. Indeed, a good portion of the criticism had the "latest in a long chapter" angle to it.
|
|
theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
|
Post by theexorcist on Oct 1, 2009 13:11:10 GMT -5
"You may notice that, at no point, do I "defend" Binghamton. Indeed, I have pointed out that Broadus should clean the place up, assuming he has the opportunity to do so." Uh, you kind of do... "No doubt that Broadus should clean things up, but his program should not be held out as an exception to the rule or some rogue." You're defending them, on the logic that all of college athletics is this rotten. It's not. Yes, college sports is full of instances where you cover your eyes, and there's abundant amounts of hypocrisy. Student-athletes, like college students in general, get into trouble, and some of that "trouble" is very illegal and morally repugnant - and the fact that student-athletes get some press for being famous doesn't help. But it's the epitome of hypocrisy to argue that, because all college athletics is not lily pure, that what Binghampton did is just more of the same. It's not. It's worse. It's like saying that, because they're both breaking the law, jaywalking and felong murder are equivalent. I'm all for cleaning up college sports, but saying that Binghampton is just as broke as Georgetown (now on NCAA probation) is ludicrous. Syracuse's teams have brushes with the law (or whatever a stronger word is than "brushes"). But one theft and one offense for selling cocaine in a year? Plus taking in two people who got kicked out from other programs for significant rules issues? Really, every other incident has gotten the teams placed on probation and got the coach fired (the only one I can think of that was worse was Baylor, where the program got shut down). And I don't care about the flight, I care about the fact that they recruited somebody who knocked somebody else into a coma. Binghampton seems to have no qualms at all about recruiting players who can't hack it academically, can't abide by federal laws (COCAINE trafficking!), and who have massive rage issues. Really, Ambassador, the kid - there's a picture here - www.wbng.com/news/local/25870819.html - was kicked repeatedly, so often that he was put in a coma. How many times do you think he got kicked? Ten? Twenty? More? Or do you think that maybe it was three really good, well-aimed kicks to the head? You've probably seen a bar fight or two. How many people kick somebody? And all of this happened just a year after Broadus became the coach. Something awfully fishy there. It's almost certainly not just him (he didn't hire the Human Development chair), but he's almost certainly not helping.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 1, 2009 13:26:52 GMT -5
I am not saying and have not said that the rest of college athletics has not done things on the same scale as Binghamton. Just last week, I think, there was a curious brawl in Lawrence, KS, leaving some injured for a month. That's bad. Indeed, KU has seen trouble before, including with Brandon Rush, one of the stars of the national championship team. We only heard about his problems in any detail after the first week of April. If I had a few hours to spend, I'm confident I could find more dirt.
One has to wonder also what was behind some of the Duke Crews stuff at Tennessee, and what explains Crews's ending up at Bowie State of all places. Was Duke dealing or just using? Who on that team knew and/or participated? Even Jeremiah Rivers ended up at a high major, and he looked like a contestant in the Chick-Fil-A Shootout. How about Ramar Smith? Not even UCONN would take him. I could go on, yet Bruce Pearl's program is a sacred cow.
We are not Binghamton, although I will point out that we defrauded a federal work-study program. It does not make us ACORN, but I am not sure too many people are comfortable with it and are happy that the clean-up is occurring.
I responded to your point about flight due to your use of capitalization, expecting that capitalization indicated your focus of analysis. I have not defended nor will I defend Binghamton on the basis of the fight, although I do not blame them for the player's ending up in Belarus or wherever he is.
If you look deep enough, you'd find fishiness in many academic programs for athletes. Clem Haskins ran a shop that comes to mind in these regards. Free Shoes is probably not a good citizen here either. I don't think Chris Duhon turned in an honor's thesis at Duke, but I may be wrong.
The idea that Binghamton is not an exception is not a mechanism to say they should not clean up. It is a point to show that the clean up need not stop there. Other arguments do not seem to have that feature.
|
|
hoyaalf
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
I like what your doing very much. Why squirrel hate me?
Posts: 688
|
Post by hoyaalf on Oct 1, 2009 19:45:11 GMT -5
You're both right.
And, of course, you're both wrong.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
|
Post by lichoya68 on Oct 2, 2009 5:43:44 GMT -5
|
|
Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
Posts: 1,236
|
Post by Joe Hoya on Oct 6, 2009 22:38:51 GMT -5
Now that the discussion has died down...
The player who was stonewalled in the America East PotY voting last season was D.J. Rivera. He played two seasons at Saint Joseph's, one of those featuring a semester off to "concentrate on academics." He transferred to Binghamton and for some reason, the NCAA let him play right away (I suppose he didn't appear in enough games at SJU in 07-08). What I read is that the opposing coaches in America East didn't vote for him as a sort of protest against this mind-boggling decision.
For what it's worth, Rivera was one of the five recently kicked off the squad by Broadus.
|
|