Map of the Modern World Changes

[LizziebethHoya]

www.thehoya.com/news/sfs-approves-changes-map-course-syllabus/#comments

I see the need for the SFS curriculum to address the issues that the new Map aims to address, but I do not believe putting this curriculum IN Map (while getting rid of other important curriculum) is the way to do it. If someone asks me about Kyrgyzstan, I think they would rather me know where it is and that it was a former Soviet State than having me describe how its mountainous area has "influenced large-scale human behavior" or something of that sort.

Thoughts?

[jerseyhoya34]

I am with you on that one and will go one step further. I simply cannot picture a Map lecture without Pirtle at the helm. Like him or not, his style/approach and substance were there start to finish for every session. He was not understood to be the "cool" professor or the most forgiving, but his contribution did not go unnoticed to the degree that his final lecture received an extended ovation and attendance from across the University.

Reardon is in the sociology department IIRC, so this change may reflect his particular biases/approach just as Pirtle's focus on geopolitics reflected his approach/background. I am not sure how you can integrate this behavioralist/constructivist stuff in there credibly in the context of a 50 minute pass/fail and without extensive reading outside of class. It seems like a drive-by instead of a "windshield survey" if you will.

[Boz]

I see nothing in this syllabus change that will help SFSers become any less dorky than they have always been.

;D

[theexorcist]

I really don't get why the earth-sun relationship affects how SFS graduates do their jobs. But with that said, I'm not necessarily opposed to this.

Like the previous commenters, the value of Map is the idea that Kiribati counts as much on the test as does Russia. In 1979 (During Geopolitics, Pirtle always emphasized the idea that people would be movers and shakers thirty years hence, and that it was best to think of what the world would be like then), a person who remembered their course on political geography would know most of the countries in the world (along with many of the disputes). For a field of international relations that is remarkably devoid of hard data, every single newly-minted SFS graduate for many years was guaranteed to do two things - be at least minimally competent in one foreign language, and know where most of the countries in the world are. Adding the need to know major rivers and mountains isn't a bad thing.

Geography matters a whole lot in political relationships. Poland is essentially a flat plain, and has thus sort of been used as a thruway for various great power wars. Russia's lack of ocean access (well, ocean access that isn't frozen most months) has been a big problem. Part of the reason that many people are thinking that the surge won't work in Afghanistan is that it's so mountainous, making dispersal of troops difficult. Water rights are becoming increasingly important.

Pirtle's focus came on political relationships, but I think that you can use a geography lens and still get everything people need.

[vcjack]

From the comments:

"You can't BS knowing the capitals of Africa, or the former political boundaries of Yugoslavia, the way you can BS most English papers."

Being able to BS an English paper is WAY more important of a skill than briefly having to memorize the names of capital cities in Africa. To BS a paper you have to learn how to make a semi-coherent argument/analysis on the fly (which is a highly important job skill) while temporarily making the mental association between two names is something grade school kids can do.

Silly sfsers...

[kchoya]

Sept 22, 2009 14:58:46 GMT -5 vcjack said:

From the comments:

"You can't BS knowing the capitals of Africa, or the former political boundaries of Yugoslavia, the way you can BS most English papers."

Being able to BS an English paper is WAY more important of a skill than briefly having to memorize the names of capital cities in Africa. To BS a paper you have to learn how to make a semi-coherent argument/analysis on the fly (which is a highly important job skill) while temporarily making the mental association between two names is something grade school kids can do.

Silly sfsers...

Me graduate from the College. Me not know of this "Map of the Modern World."

[jgalt]

An argument between the college and the SFS? Oh i wasnt paying attention, my fellow MSBers and I were too busy counting our money to notice

[kchoya]

Sept 22, 2009 18:25:59 GMT -5 jgalt said:

An argument between the college and the SFS? Oh i wasnt paying attention, my fellow MSBers and I were too busy counting our money to notice

Real men had to go to class on Friday.

[big_homey]

This is a terrible idea. This is a part of the 'sociology-ization' and
'post-modernization' of international politics, pushing the idea that states are not the preeminent actors on the world stage. Obviously there are non-state actors and factors of import, but he idea that states don't matter is foolish. Pirtle spoke out against this creeping tendency, but alas, he is not on campus anymore to fight the good fight.

Full disclosure: I was a Map TA

[HoyaSinceBirth]

I'm not sure about the details. But Geography of the world sounds like something SFSers should be taught and know. Probably not as a part of map since it's hard enough as it is, but perhaps as a separate class.

[strummer8526]

The funny thing is that they claim to be doing this to get "science" into the SFS curriculum. How many people honestly believe that any valuable science will be taught here? I predict it's a load of nonsense like "How did fjords and inlets impact the migratory patterns of the indigenous peoples of South America?" NOT any major scientific discussion. Nor should it be. To be honest, I loathe any attempt to quantify and make scientific things that are much more qualitative. And it seems to me that foreign service people are prepared better by learning where every country is and its history than by learning earth-sun relationships (whatever the hell that means).

[PhillyHoya]

I am against the Map changes. Additional geography requirements or at least classes are fine but leave map as is. I had a geography requirement in grad school and I tested out thanks to the knowledge I gained from Pirtle's Map class, no question. I wish the kids now got the Pirtle experience - locked doors, military rule and feeling like you were going to die because the cell phone of the girl next to you went off and you tried to rat her out without being obvious because her stupidity deserved it.

[jerseyhoya34]

Sept 23, 2009 3:13:18 GMT -5 big_homey said:

Full disclosure: I was a Map TA

You were not a TA. You were an enforcer.

[big_homey]

Ha, well yes that is true. I had to close the door on a few friends when they were late. I was like, trust me, it's better for you if you don't go in there. They quickly learned I wasn't joking.

[PhillyHoya]

We had a long running joke that my upperclassmen friends would dress like ninjas and break into Map and kidnap me one day. Then we realized Pirtle would probably beat us to death with his cane.

Then there was the time in an elevator in ICC when I was wearing an I Bleed Hoya Blue shirt and he says to me "You never see anyone saying they bleed Hoya gray do you?" My only response "If they are, something's gone wrong." I was amazed to get that much out since I was scared s***less.

[hoyaddict]

Maybe some of you alum didn't realize that Hrebenak replaced Pirtle around 4 years ago, and although I didn't know the Pirtle Map experience, I can attest that Hrebenak's Map was interesting and informative. I think Map already had the perfect amount of Geography, Hrebenak discussed it when it was relevant and focused on political matters when those mattered more. It wouldn't surprise me if Hrebenak's no-BS style Editeded off the efficient decision-makers that inhabit the Gtown administration; I am still waiting to hear why the personnel change was made.

[redskins12820]

Stupid. As a government major interested in foreign affairs, the old map would have been useful. The new map? Not so much

[RusskyHoya]

Sept 23, 2009 16:32:05 GMT -5 hoyaddict said:

Maybe some of you alum didn't realize that Hrebenak replaced Pirtle around 4 years ago, and although I didn't know the Pirtle Map experience, I can attest that Hrebenak's Map was interesting and informative. I think Map already had the perfect amount of Geography, Hrebenak discussed it when it was relevant and focused on political matters when those mattered more. It wouldn't surprise me if Hrebenak's no-BS style Editeded off the efficient decision-makers that inhabit the Gtown administration; I am still waiting to hear why the personnel change was made.

Hrebenak's "no-BS style" was an ode to/imitation of Pirtle. I'm a big fan of Hrebenak (I had Pirtle for his last year of map, but took a different class with Hrebenak), but he could never match the saltiness and Keyser Söze-quality of Pirtle. If the administration was fine with years of Pirtle, they certainly weren't going to be scared off by Hrebenak's version.

[jerseyhoya34]

And there is now a Facebook group for outraged alumni - 460+ members strong, and 45+ eloquent wall comments complete with criticisms of the change, the obligatory Pirtleisms, and gratuitous concerns about rif-raf.

[The Stig]

Sept 23, 2009 22:01:28 GMT -5 RusskyHoya said:

Sept 23, 2009 16:32:05 GMT -5 hoyaddict said:

Maybe some of you alum didn't realize that Hrebenak replaced Pirtle around 4 years ago, and although I didn't know the Pirtle Map experience, I can attest that Hrebenak's Map was interesting and informative. I think Map already had the perfect amount of Geography, Hrebenak discussed it when it was relevant and focused on political matters when those mattered more. It wouldn't surprise me if Hrebenak's no-BS style Editeded off the efficient decision-makers that inhabit the Gtown administration; I am still waiting to hear why the personnel change was made.

Hrebenak's "no-BS style" was an ode to/imitation of Pirtle. I'm a big fan of Hrebenak (I had Pirtle for his last year of map, but took a different class with Hrebenak), but he could never match the saltiness and Keyser Söze-quality of Pirtle. If the administration was fine with years of Pirtle, they certainly weren't going to be scared off by Hrebenak's version.

Did Hrebenak voluntarily give up Map, or was it taken from him?

Map needs to be left as it was. It's a cornerstone of the SFS experience, and I've found it to be very useful in life beyond Georgetown. If they want to teach this new physical geography stuff, fine, but do it in a new class, not Map.