The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 14, 2010 22:15:56 GMT -5
Here's a replay of the hit:
Note two things. First, Ovechkin's hands are clearly on Campbell's side, not his back. His forearms and shoulder are covering Campbell's numbers, but he wasn't hitting him with the shoulder. Second, look at Campbell's feet. He clearly catches an edge just as Ovechkin pushes him, which is why he fell the way he did. Without that caught edge, Campbell doesn't fall head/shoulder first, and nobody even remembers this hit.
Was it a penalty on Ovie? For sure. But a game misconduct? Absolutely not. If the NHL suspends Ovechkin for this after letting Cooke get off with nothing for what he did, it will make a total mockery of the NHL's disciplinary system.
And saying that "Pushing a guy in the back at top speed five feet from the boards is about as dirty a hockey play as you can make" is absolutely absurd. I've played the game, I've reffed the game, and I've followed the game for most of my life, and I wouldn't put a push near the boards anywhere near the top of a "dirtiest things in hockey" list.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 14, 2010 23:03:59 GMT -5
It's definitely a major and a game (no such thing as a double minor for boarding, learn the rules). I was trying to say that there should be a double minor for boarding and a major that does not carry a game misconduct. it seems retarded that you can go from two minutes to out of the game but nothing in between. It seemed to me like the Refs didnt want to throw him out, but had to because of the rule. Id like to see this high light reel, its probably pretty short. anyway, another shocking development: i agreed with Don Cherry about something too. Starts about 2 min in and is about the cooke hit. He is definately right about how not suspending him or richards sets a terrible precedent if they dont change the rules. The fact that this guy can elbow guy in the head and get off scott free but ovie may be suspended is the biggest mockery of justice since OJ. Cooke is a dirty player; Ovie has never done anything with the intent to injure, which in my book is the key to being dirty.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 14, 2010 23:40:45 GMT -5
......it will make a total mockery of the NHL's disciplinary system. Too late. As for Ovie, well, I continue to say what I said about him previously. He simply plays too recklessly. He is not a dirty player, but a reckless one can be just as dangerous at times, to himself and others.
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One
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Post by One on Mar 15, 2010 0:44:15 GMT -5
Id like to see this high light reel, its probably pretty short.
Off the top of my head: slew-footing Peverley; knee-on-knees to Gleason and Gonchar; and boarding Kaleta (sp?), Briere (that was several years ago, before it was cool to "rock the red" so you may not have been watching hockey yet, and was late and absolutely awful), and now Campbell (saying it was from the side is a joke). So he's a repeat offender in pretty much every category of dirty play possible.
But you Ovie fanboys can see what you want to see. I'll applaud the player who plays Scott Stevens to Ovie's Eric Lindros. He has it coming. My fantasy team loves his 60 goals a year, but Ovie's a piece of , plain and simple.
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One
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Post by One on Mar 15, 2010 0:46:59 GMT -5
Agree on Cherry/Cooke/Richards.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 15, 2010 9:55:37 GMT -5
The thing is none of those actions every involved malicious intent. Boz is right, but i dont really like the word reckless though it is the best word I cant think of. He plays hard and that sometimes leads to dangerous situations. Am i saying he should get a free pass? No. But it doesnt mean he is a "dirty player." What is dirty is punching a guy in the nuts, which shows intent and is gutless, but Golden Boy got away with that.
Suspend him if its really necessary, but the idea that Ovie is Chris Simon is just outrageous.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 15, 2010 10:08:49 GMT -5
Oh, come on. I know you hate Sid, but really? You have played sports, right? Everyone, EVERYONE goes for the nuts from time to time.
Hell, as a defenseman when I used to play, I was practically instructed to do it as a way to clear someone out from the front of the net.
Telling someone to take a bow is not playing dirty. It's in every single contact sport there is.
Aiming at someone's knee, head or back is dirty. Aiming at their junk is just part of the game.
....And now, this thread just got a little weird.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 15, 2010 10:14:32 GMT -5
Id like to see this high light reel, its probably pretty short. Off the top of my head: slew-footing Peverley; knee-on-knees to Gleason and Gonchar; and boarding Kaleta (sp?), Briere (that was several years ago, before it was cool to "rock the red" so you may not have been watching hockey yet, and was late and absolutely awful), and now Campbell (saying it was from the side is a joke). So he's a repeat offender in pretty much every category of dirty play possible. But you Ovie fanboys can see what you want to see. I'll applaud the player who plays Scott Stevens to Ovie's Eric Lindros. He has it coming. My fantasy team loves his 60 goals a year, but Ovie's a piece of Edited, plain and simple. You must not know hockey very well if you think that's "every dirty play possible." You also must not like hockey very much if you want Ovechkin knocked out of the sport. Even if you can't stand him, you have to admit that he's good for the game. I think Sidney Crosby is a little b*tch, but he's also great for the game I love, and I think it would be awful if he got knocked out of the league. As jgalt said, there's a huge difference between hurting a guy accidentally because you play the game at full speed all the time and never back off (Ovechkin) and hurting a guy because you're aiming to take him out (Cooke, Bertuzzi, Simon). The former is playing hard (admittedly, sometimes too hard), the latter is playing dirty. If you think that Ovechkin meant to hurt Campbell then you just don't know hockey.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 15, 2010 16:22:56 GMT -5
So he gets a two game suspension. Not surprised, but still the NHL should be ashamed that Ovie is sitting out but Cooke continued to play. The crazy part is that he misses only two games but loses $230k!!! Wish i got that much for two days of work.
Boz, you know the play i am talking about right? When the Pens got in a brawl with i think the Thrashers and Crosby went up to a Thrasher who was already engaged with a Pen (and the penguin player was easily winning the fight), and Crosby hit the Thrasher in the back of the head and then in the nuts. I can understand going after the nuts one on one in a scrum or while the ref isnt looking but it is a pretty pu**y move to hit a guy already fighting someone (and losing)
What ever, we dont have to agree on this. I dont think Ovie is a dirty player, others disagree. All I know is that when he hit Jamie Heward last season and put him in the hospital for a few days, Heward, who had played with Ovie, said he thought Ovie was on of the least dirty players in the game and that he just plays hard. Do i expect Campbell to say this, no, but Heward has much more hockey experience than all of us on here combined so i tend to take his word on this matter.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 15, 2010 16:42:01 GMT -5
Unbelievable. Scratch that - Very believable. I don't envy Colin Campbell's position at all, but sometimes I feel like he picks suspensions by flipping a coin.
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One
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Post by One on Mar 15, 2010 17:41:51 GMT -5
That we agree on, Stig. It's the Wheel of Justice, who knows where it will land next. Also agree on how bush league it was for Crosby to go for the nuts on a guy already fighting someone else.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 15, 2010 17:59:06 GMT -5
Actually, I was not aware of that incident, jgalt. That's different than the normal course of play where, for better or for worse, the family jewels are fair game. So, your point is taken.
As for Ovie, I think something else may be at play here. I'm not saying it's not hypocritical -- it is ridiculously hypocritical -- but I think Ovechkin actually gets a little harsher treatment BECAUSE he is either the best or second best (I really don't care which) player in the game.
Look, I have nothing against the guy. I like him, love to watch him play. But he IS reckless. You can call it over-enthusiastic if you want, I don't really care about the term, but he plays the game with a certain level of abandon that may verge on going too far at times. It's part of why his fans (and I'm in that group from an objective standpoint, even if the Caps aren't my favorite team) love him.
The NHL knows this as well. The NHL also knows that their fate for the next decade is tied inextricably to the success of Crosby and Ovechkin. I guarantee they want Ovie to rein himself in before someone gets hurt badly, or he hurts himself badly.
Put it this way. If Ovie goes knee to knee with someone and tears his ACL, who is the NHL going to market for the entire season while he rehabs? And maybe never comes back as good as he was? So they suspend him earlier in the year and again this time to try to get him to play a little more carefully because he is the franchise.
On the other hand, no one knows who the hell Cooke is. The NHL doesn't really care about him.
As I said, hypocritical. Also short-sighted, because Cooke may not be a name, but he just knocked out a pretty good name in Marc Savard and he also risked the health of his own superstar, should the Bruins decide that they'd like to take a little vengeance and justice into their own hands.
Anyway, I think this has something to do with it. The NHL is harder on Ovie not because anyone thinks he is a dirty player, but because they are trying to protect him and any other superstars they may develop for the long term.
Just my thoughts.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 15, 2010 20:20:43 GMT -5
[ur]http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2010/03/15/colin-campbell-must-go/[/url]
Chris Botta calls for Colin Campbell to resign/be fired. Not just for the ovie suspension but for a very bad pattern. Also brings up a court case involving the firing of a Ref. I hadnt heard about this but it sounds like this Ref will win his case and that Campbell, himself, will be found to have targeted the Ref because of his involvement in the Ref Union.
Thats pretty bad. For two reasons. It ruins the leagues relationship with a very important union. and it shows that they have terrible hiring/firing practices and policies. Hiring and Firing are two of the most critical actions an organization undertakes. To have that in disarray does not bode well for the future of the league.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 18, 2010 8:47:42 GMT -5
Some more work for Campbell, once again involving a Hawks D-man:
I think this is a totally different case than the Ovechkin hit, because there was clearly intent on the part of Wisniewski, while nobody is arguing that Ovechkin meant to hurt Campbell.
I think Seabrook's hit on Perry is very similar to the Ovechkin play - a clean hit near the boards that looked a lot worse than it was because the player receiving the hit was moving. In the Campbell case, it looked worse because he caught an edge. In the Perry case, it looked worse because Perry was turning.
If Wisniewski doesn't get at least 4 games for this, then the farce will become a whole lot worse.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 18, 2010 9:48:11 GMT -5
The irony of this is that the Wisniewski hit is exactly what some have been calling for as a way to self police bad hits like ovies or cookes (minus the elbow to the face).
This whole thing is getting out of hand with every hit being called suspension worthy.
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One
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Post by One on Mar 18, 2010 13:26:03 GMT -5
Definitely different than the Ovechkin play on Campbell. Wiz knew exactly what he was doing and the result he was hoping for. As McKenzie said on TSN, Wiz could have been called for a major for charging, interference, boarding, or elbowing -- take your pick. Instead, he gets a 2 minute minor for roughing, Keith picks a fight, and they end up playing 5 on 5. What a joke.
Colin Campbell stinks at his job, but the on-ice officiating has not been much better this season. Too bad we always end up talking about this crap when there's so much good hockey being played across the league. Pittsburgh/Boston tonight going to be the next chapter in all this?
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One
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Post by One on Mar 19, 2010 19:06:03 GMT -5
Only 4 games tonight. We might make it two whole days without a head-shot controversy.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 25, 2010 11:36:02 GMT -5
That was a fun game last night. Good move by the NHL to make sure that game was available nation wide b/c of the NHL Network preview. Semin's goal was sick, Theodore made some great saves, and shoot outs are always fun (at least in the regular season).
I cannot wait for the playoffs.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Mar 25, 2010 20:02:15 GMT -5
That was a fun game last night. Good move by the NHL to make sure that game was available nation wide b/c of the NHL Network preview. Semin's goal was sick, Theodore made some great saves, and shoot outs are always fun (at least in the regular season). I cannot wait for the playoffs. Yeah, the NHL seems to be learning how they should be using the NHL Network to their advantage. I wont make a direct comment about the Officiating, but i will only say that in the past 17 meeting between the Pens and Caps (including playoffs) the Pens have had more or the same number of PPs as the Caps. It were a coin flip that would occur much much less than 1% of the time. The caps are trying to come back from 2-1 down in third again tonight against the Canes. If caps win, NJ loses and CHI loses, the Caps will clinch the East before any other team clinches even a playoff spot!
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 27, 2010 17:04:13 GMT -5
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