|
Post by fsohoya on Aug 19, 2009 14:10:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 19, 2009 14:36:36 GMT -5
I was hopping the new business school would be good enough for a bump up to 22. Maybe that won't get factored in till next year.
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Aug 19, 2009 15:18:56 GMT -5
What we need is the new science building. I suspect our peer assessment tends to be relatively low because we are not seen as well balanced between liberal arts and hard sciences. An engineering school would really help with that, of course, but it ain't gonna happen. We could also stand to have an endowment of $30 billion.
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,607
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 19, 2009 15:48:06 GMT -5
There's a whole lot of things that go into that peer assessment score being much lower than it should be. Endowment, small/subpar science programs outside of biology, and lower-rated graduate programs (professors and administrators tend to be most concerned with graduate programs, so it tends to color their thinking even when asked to produce an assessment of undergraduate programs) are certainly part of it, as is, I think, bias against schools with religious affiliations - Notre Dame and GU are the only religiously affiliated schools in the Top 25, and BC is the only other one to crack the top 50. The top 75 only has 5 more - Yeshiva, Pepperdine, Fordham, SMU, BYU. So that's 8 of the top 75...
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 19, 2009 16:44:08 GMT -5
well the science building is sort of under way in that they're doing stuff where it will eventually be built.
|
|
FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
|
Post by FLHoya on Aug 19, 2009 18:18:25 GMT -5
You know what's...I'm not sure what the word would be...
I accurately picked what our ranking was based on the size of this thread.
|
|
|
Post by reformation on Aug 19, 2009 22:15:40 GMT -5
What we need is the new science building. I suspect our peer assessment tends to be relatively low because we are not seen as well balanced between liberal arts and hard sciences. An engineering school would really help with that, of course, but it ain't gonna happen. We could also stand to have an endowment of $30 billion. I don't think that the science building really has any impact on outside peer asessment--if the people doing the peer assessment actually knew the state of facilities they would rank us even lower---some of the things that probably hurt our perception in peer academic rankings include things like the small # of gtwn students that apply(get in) to top phd programs. Also I don't think that there is a lot of focus from our admin on trying to make sure that Gtwn's undergrad academic program from a pure acdemic viewpoint is on par with our peer universities(which we compete with from an admissions standpoint). I think that our admin place more emphasis on the overall "georgetown experience" than the strict academic experience and are content with the status quo unless we actually fell out of the US News top 25--which would be a big deal. Given the actual lack of focus on the pure academic side of things(rightly or wrongly), our mediocre review on peer assessments is not surprising and is probably not all that out of step with what a lot of our own faculty think--witness the recent academic life report that was leaked to the voice/hoya last yr.
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,607
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 19, 2009 23:01:24 GMT -5
You know what's...I'm not sure what the word would be... I accurately picked what our ranking was based on the size of this thread. So you're saying we're a status quo power? ;D On the plus side, Syracuse continues its historic slide, down to #58 this year. Pitt clocks in at 56 - perhaps its time to amend the song to "If you can't go to college, go to 'Cuse *clap* *clap*"
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 20, 2009 6:56:19 GMT -5
On the plus side now that I've actually seen the list we did sort of move up in that we broke our tie with UVA who is now at 24 instead of tied at 23 with us as they have been the past coupe of years.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 20, 2009 16:36:29 GMT -5
reformation: What can Georgetown do to make it's undergrad academic program on par with it's academic peers? What are we lacking exactly?
I explained in another thread a bit about how a psych class of mine with the chair of the psych department discussed the academic life report a lot. For the most part it seems that relative to peer institutions Georgetown Students appear to be studying less and yet getting higher grades. We discovered though that Georgetown Students are under-reporting their study hours due 1) to the poor phrasing of the evaluation forms( i.e we're supposed to be including time in class in the hours of study according the people who read the forms, but this isn't made clear) 2) apathy in filing out the forms( most students don't read the forms and just bubble in random numbers and don't realize their importance. This all leads to the perception of grade inflation at Georgetown, which I'm sure is part of the reason for our peer review status.
What else needs to be changed besides things like this perception?( I'm not denying the existence of grade inflation, I just believe it is less rampant as it's being perceived.) Is it our lack of Majors? or what exactly? or is more just the nature of the type of student Georgetown attracts i.e. more students in foreign service, Peace Corp, TFA, less students applying to the top PHD programs
|
|
sead43
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 796
|
Post by sead43 on Aug 20, 2009 19:34:09 GMT -5
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 20, 2009 21:32:46 GMT -5
Is time spent studying something we really want to increase?
A large driver of my choice of Georgetown is that I didn't spend all my time in the library or dorm room. Social interaction is a part of Georgetown.
|
|
rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,595
|
Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 20, 2009 22:17:00 GMT -5
We discovered though that Georgetown Students are under-reporting their study hours Does this terrify anyone else? I know I tended to fudge my numbers UPWARD so that the profs I liked wouldn't seem like total flakes and yet I think I'd still feel guilty if I claimed I was studying more than six hours a week for a class. Very few (non-language) classes were all that demanding in terms of out-of-class effort. If that means our Peer Assessment scores suffer, we just have to lump it, because it's probably deserved.
|
|
rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,595
|
Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 20, 2009 23:06:57 GMT -5
What's in a Peer Assessment? This is a must-read accompaniment to the USNews list. www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/19/rankings"The form submitted by the provost at the University of Wisconsin at Madison deemed 260 of its 262 peer institutions to be of “adequate” quality. A survey from the University of Vermont’s president listed “don’t know” for about half of the universities. The forms provided by Ohio State University’s president and provost were virtually identical. And the University of Florida’s president, like his highly publicized colleague at Clemson University, rated his own institution well above many of his competitors." "At the University of Wisconsin at Madison, the provost’s most recent peer assessment form gave the highest possible rating, “distinguished,” to just two institutions: its own and the New School. To every other university but one, Madison's response gave the second-lowest rating, “adequate.” Those 260 “adequate” institutions included Harvard, Yale and the rest of the Ivy League, the University of California at Berkeley, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Stanford University. Only Arizona State University scored below all the rest, given the lowest rating of “marginal.” " Read the whole thing -- it just doesn't stop giving!!
|
|
jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
|
Post by jgalt on Aug 20, 2009 23:22:26 GMT -5
Why dont they ask high school seniors what they think about other universities. They have spent the last year and a half of their life finding out everything they can about school and have probably visited more schools than most provosts have. Its pretty easy to come with general list of the top 50 or so schools (those that would be considered "distinguished" or just below). We all know that Az St is a party school and we all know that Harvard is one of the top 3. I dont need a provost to tell me that and US News shouldnt need them to either.
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Aug 21, 2009 7:10:04 GMT -5
We discovered though that Georgetown Students are under-reporting their study hours Does this terrify anyone else? I know I tended to fudge my numbers UPWARD so that the profs I liked wouldn't seem like total flakes and yet I think I'd still feel guilty if I claimed I was studying more than six hours a week for a class. Very few (non-language) classes were all that demanding in terms of out-of-class effort. If that means our Peer Assessment scores suffer, we just have to lump it, because it's probably deserved. Less than six, counting the 2–3 hours you spend in the class each week? (How long were undergrad classes again? I don't even remember.)
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 21, 2009 8:34:55 GMT -5
yeah see most classes you already spend 6 hours in class so we should be putting down at least 6 hours unless you're not going to class. And that would mean you don't do any work outside of class. So yeah seeing as a lot of students ( probably not all) are under reporting by at least one category it does tend to make us look bad. Cause it looks like we're only putting say 4 hrs a week into a class and getting A's while people at harvard and yale are putting in 10+ and getting B's.
|
|
Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,411
|
Post by Jack on Aug 21, 2009 9:09:56 GMT -5
Why dont they ask high school seniors what they think about other universities. They have spent the last year and a half of their life finding out everything they can about school and have probably visited more schools than most provosts have. Given that it is supposed to be a list to guide high school students, basing the rankings on popularity among high school students doesn't make a ton of sense. Plus their votes are already counted in the selectivity rankings, at least to a large degree. The proposed change to the rankings that intrigued me a few years ago was the addition of a ranking by high school guidance counselors, a group who should be the best informed of anyone about the widest range of schools. How to accomplish that ranking (a small panel, a broad cross-section, every counselor gets a vote?) is a tougher question, but I was under the impression this was on the way. I have not seen the actual magazine this year, so I don't know if maybe they have added this component, but it does not seem like they have. As for the academic life stuff, outside of science labs or intensive language classes I don't think many classes met for more than 3 hours/week- they were either 3 50 minutes periods or 2 75 minute periods, right? Or did I skip far more classes than I realized?
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Aug 21, 2009 9:09:56 GMT -5
yeah see most classes you already spend 6 hours in class so we should be putting down at least 6 hours unless you're not going to class. And that would mean you don't do any work outside of class. So yeah seeing as a lot of students ( probably not all) are under reporting by at least one category it does tend to make us look bad. Cause it looks like we're only putting say 4 hrs a week into a class and getting A's while people at harvard and yale are putting in 10+ and getting B's. Right, and in reality, if you go to class and spend a bit of time reading, you're probably around 8 hours.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,303
|
Post by Cambridge on Aug 21, 2009 9:20:38 GMT -5
Is time spent studying something we really want to increase? A large driver of my choice of Georgetown is that I didn't spend all my time in the library or dorm room. Social interaction is a part of Georgetown. Bingo.
|
|