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Post by gtowndynasty on Aug 29, 2011 14:52:06 GMT -5
SWhoya, What you preach sounds good. Ill grant you that. is it practical? I doubt it. And I dont think you know what III would do. I dont think you know III at all. I dont know him so I cant say what he would or wouldnt do. But when you put yourself in Calhoun's position, it is hard to argue against it, especially when you do not know anything about the kid who had his schollie pulled. Will he get an academic schollie? Are his parents well off? Is there some other plan in place that will help him financially? You just DONT know. It seems you are coming down on Calhoun here, but he didnt tell AD to wait until two days before class to decide to attend college. That was AD and his family that did that. You talk about a convo at the end of the season to help the kid prepare, but Calhoun couldnt do that here. The question at that point is simple, do you accommodate the #1 player in the nation or not. It seems like a pretty simple and a clean analysis to me. Take a look at what some of the experts have to say about the move. This is college basketball. It is a big time business and some times these things happen. espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6905615/writers-roundtable-our-experts-answer-three-big-questionsNo, I don't know III any more than the people on here claiming he would do it. So yes, it's based on conjecture and my impression of him. Obviously something has happened with the guys that we've had that have transferred, but I still have never seen III say or do anything that would publicly humiliate the player, so I'm inclined to believe he believes in treating his players (even former ones) with respect. I've read some of the experts. Plenty of them are critical, for whatever that's worth. You put a lot of "maybes" about whether the kid losing the schollie can get other means of continuing on. Perhaps he does, perhaps not. Either way, that seems to miss the point. If he were given that choice a couple of months ago, he'd have a whole lot other options. He could get the money, or try to go elsewhere. I'm guessing his options are a whole lot more limited given when he lost his scholarship. And that's the respect part. Yes, it's big business. But I'm guessing it isn't for the kid that lost his scholarship. He's not going to the L. May not ever play European ball either. He probably just wants to play. Coaches and universities make a lot of money off of their players, but the vast majority of the players won't ever get a dime. A bit of decency isn't too much to ask for in return. Totally agree with most of what you wrote here. But again i think you are misplacing much of the blame. As I said previously, AD made the decision to do what he did. Calhoun just accommodated the best player in the land. If he could have had more dialogue with the player losing his schollie, im sure he would have preferred that. But here the analysis is simple. Either you are going to take the player who is perceived by ALL to be a program changing player or you tell him, "wish I could take you, but we are full so we cant" or you tell the kid "we want you mr. all-american, but you have to pay your own way." Maybe some coaches would take the ladder approach, but I "think" the overwhelming majority take the former and do what is necessary within the confines of the rules to get the player, which is all Calhoun did. I feel sorry for the kid too, but I paid my way through college and didnt get to play on title contending/winning team. This kid is getting a great opportunity to be a part of team that should be VERY successful. Maybe that is worth it to him. I mean he is sticking around. He could transfer down to a DII from Connecticut and get a schollie if the money part is crippling to him and his family.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Aug 29, 2011 15:00:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure transferring is such a feasible option at the point they pulled his scholly. School is about to start or already did start! He has also used a redshirt year already, so he'd be looking at 2 years of no game action if he transferred. If this happened in July, he would have at least have had a chance to find another option. As is, his choices were constrained.
Anyway, it's not fair but it also happens all the time, though normally in a less obvious and in your face fashion than it did here.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Aug 29, 2011 15:23:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure transferring is such a feasible option at the point they pulled his scholly. School is about to start or already did start! He has also used a redshirt year already, so he'd be looking at 2 years of no game action if he transferred. If this happened in July, he would have at least have had a chance to find another option. As is, his choices were constrained. Anyway, it's not fair but it also happens all the time, though normally in a less obvious and in your face fashion than it did here. NY, Technically speaking if the player wanted to transfer down, he could go to DII and be immediately eligible. So if it was that he didnt want to sit out two straight years, he wouldnt have to. Also, DII schools would take a player leaving the national champion in a heartbeat and not every school is in session right now. Some DIIs are on the quarter system so he would have time. And some D1's, especially on the west coast, have not started yet. Point simply is that the kid has options.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Aug 29, 2011 15:39:34 GMT -5
Do D-II schools even give scholarships? Moreover, most D-IIs are not name brand schools. UConn isn't going to be confused with Yale anytime soon but it has some respectable academic programs. This Bradley kid for instance is apparently a pharmacy major, something that many schools don't offer.
I am aware he has options, but the options at this point have probably dwindled to a small enough number that he had little choice other than swallow and go back to UConn, even if it means taking on debt. Is that the greatest crime ever? No, many students deal with it every day. But I would still be pretty unhappy if I was Bradley or his family.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 29, 2011 16:13:00 GMT -5
SWhoya, What you preach sounds good. Ill grant you that. is it practical? I doubt it. And I dont think you know what III would do. I dont think you know III at all. I dont know him so I cant say what he would or wouldnt do. But when you put yourself in Calhoun's position, it is hard to argue against it, especially when you do not know anything about the kid who had his schollie pulled. Will he get an academic schollie? Are his parents well off? Is there some other plan in place that will help him financially? You just DONT know. It seems you are coming down on Calhoun here, but he didnt tell AD to wait until two days before class to decide to attend college. That was AD and his family that did that. You talk about a convo at the end of the season to help the kid prepare, but Calhoun couldnt do that here. The question at that point is simple, do you accommodate the #1 player in the nation or not. It seems like a pretty simple and a clean analysis to me. Take a look at what some of the experts have to say about the move. This is college basketball. It is a big time business and some times these things happen. espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6905615/writers-roundtable-our-experts-answer-three-big-questionsWell, if I was Calhoun, it would be easy to do because I have no soul.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Aug 29, 2011 16:45:44 GMT -5
Pretty sure AD in that case refers to Mr. Andre Drummond, not that Athletic Director who got axed.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Aug 29, 2011 18:50:55 GMT -5
Pretty sure AD in that case refers to Mr. Andre Drummond, not that Athletic Director who got axed. Precisely. But Larry David, or KChoya, is so quick on the trigger to make a joke, he must have missed the context, which wasnt hard to pick up on. Glad to see you deleted the post tho KC as it was a ridiculous reach..
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 29, 2011 21:03:59 GMT -5
Pretty sure AD in that case refers to Mr. Andre Drummond, not that Athletic Director who got axed. Precisely. But Larry David, or KChoya, is so quick on the trigger to make a joke, he must have missed the context, which wasnt hard to pick up on. Glad to see you deleted the post tho KC as it was a ridiculous reach.. What post?
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Aug 29, 2011 22:02:07 GMT -5
The larger point here is that the NCAA rules are an absolute joke if a recruited, scholarship counter can be pushed into giving up his basketball scholarship, receive other university financial aid, and then not be a counter.
Why bother to have a limit on the number of recruited players with a loophole that huge? The reason for counting and limiting recruited players in addition to the limit on the number of scholarships is precisely to prevent things like this.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Aug 29, 2011 22:07:54 GMT -5
D II schools do give athletic scholarships. D III schools do not, but at the ones who feature athletics, athletes get a lot of the "leadership scholarships" they award.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 30, 2011 7:08:58 GMT -5
The larger point here is that the NCAA rules are an absolute joke if a recruited, scholarship counter can be pushed into giving up his basketball scholarship, receive other university financial aid, and then not be a counter. Why bother to have a limit on the number of recruited players with a loophole that huge? The reason for counting and limiting recruited players in addition to the limit on the number of scholarships is precisely to prevent things like this. A number of otherwise intelligent people that I know have gotten themselves stuck in this circular reasoning trap, where they say that UConn couldn't POSSIBLY do this if they hadn't already determined that it's legal and it obviously must be legal because otherwise the NCAA would instantly have come down on them like a truckload of bricks. Since UConn has done it and the NCAA has implicitly authorized it, then it must be kosher no matter what an ordinary rational individual would think. I mean, don't forget how quickly the NCAA jumped to hand out a nine-game suspension to Moses Abraham last year for simply flying to America. Its justice is swift and its reasoning ability unparalleled.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 30, 2011 19:17:23 GMT -5
As others have said, what is really irksome about the kid being forced to give up his scholarship is the timing of it. Sure, Drummond was the one who decided to come at the last minute, but Calhoun should have known (probably knew) that there was a chance of that. He should have held a scholarship. Of course, the sanctions limiting the scholarships may have come down after all the slots were filled. And I suppose it's also possible that Calhoun told the other kid back in the spring that Drummond might end up committing late, forcing the other guy to lose his scholarship.
But since I hate Calhoun, I'm going to assume he did the sleazy thing and pulled the rug out from under the kid at the last minute.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Aug 30, 2011 19:33:28 GMT -5
As others have said, what is really irksome about the kid being forced to give up his scholarship is the timing of it. Sure, Drummond was the one who decided to come at the last minute, but Calhoun should have known (probably knew) that there was a chance of that. He should have held a scholarship. Of course, the sanctions limiting the scholarships may have come down after all the slots were filled. And I suppose it's also possible that Calhoun told the other kid back in the spring that Drummond might end up committing late, forcing the other guy to lose his scholarship. But since I hate Calhoun, I'm going to assume he did the sleazy thing and pulled the rug out from under the kid at the last minute. When in doubt, assume the worst. ;D
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 31, 2011 7:17:15 GMT -5
As others have said, what is really irksome about the kid being forced to give up his scholarship is the timing of it. Sure, Drummond was the one who decided to come at the last minute, but Calhoun should have known (probably knew) that there was a chance of that. He should have held a scholarship. Of course, the sanctions limiting the scholarships may have come down after all the slots were filled. And I suppose it's also possible that Calhoun told the other kid back in the spring that Drummond might end up committing late, forcing the other guy to lose his scholarship. But since I hate Calhoun, I'm going to assume he did the sleazy thing and pulled the rug out from under the kid at the last minute. When in doubt, assume the worst. ;D Oh, I assumed the worst a couple pages ago and Admin deleted it. Thankfully (for Bradley's sake at least!) it didn't reach that point. Yet.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Aug 31, 2011 10:57:24 GMT -5
I'm sure he picked the kid who is most likely to qualify for other financial aid. This isn't rocket science. But he is still a recruited player so it doesn't make sense that simply giving up the scholarship would make a non-counting walk-on. The NCAA already opened this huge loophole when they let Mississippi State count Varnado as a walk-on last year when he withdrew from the NBA draft after they had given his scholarship to Riek.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 31, 2011 11:27:21 GMT -5
I'm hoping they slam it shut. College basketball really needs a commissioner like pro sports have.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 31, 2011 11:40:04 GMT -5
I'm hoping they slam it shut. College basketball really needs a commissioner like pro sports have. Remember everyone spazzing over Goodell's decision regarding Pryor earlier this month? A pro league's commissioner is nothing more than the joint property of the owners and the networks. I'm pretty sure that an NCAA commish would make the same call for Drummond that he would make for a Cam Newton. The NCAA will find that Drummond's going to play for UConn by any means necessary.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 31, 2011 15:45:43 GMT -5
The best explanation I've seen of the Drummond/Bradley/counter/scholarship issue. QUOTE:The question that I got asked, however, was what makes you technically a recruited player? And with a hat-tip to the ByLawBlog's John Infante, I give you Rule 15.02.8: For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a student-athlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Was provided an official visit to the institution's campus;
(b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution's coaching staff (including a coach's arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete's parents, relatives or legal guardians); or
(c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term...
But there is a way around that thanks to Rule 15.5.1.2.1, which states that "a student-athlete who was recruited ... and whose only source of institutional financial aid is academic aid based solely on the recipient's academic record at the certifying institution, awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, may compete without counting in the institution's financial aid team limits, provided he or she has completed at least one academic year of full-time enrollment at the certifying institution and has achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (on a 4.000 scale) at the certifying institution."
Since Bradley has complete one academic year at UConn, if he is carrying a GPA above a 3.0 he can get an exception that says that the financial aid he receives won't count against UConn's scholarship total. And given the fact that Bradley spent most of his teenage years in a group home, if he truly does have a 3.0, I don't think it will be difficult for UConn to find a way to get the cost of his education covered.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Aug 31, 2011 16:42:39 GMT -5
If he doesn't have a 3.0, please don't smudge the white-out on the transcript before it's dry.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 31, 2011 19:04:59 GMT -5
academic aid based solely on the recipient's academic record at the certifying institution, awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution I wonder how many other UConn kids with a 3.0 returned to campus this weekend to find out that their academic performance qualified them for a free ride this year!
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