Students Protest The Hoya's April Fools Issue

[Bando]

You know, when they first started the Hoya April Fool's issue, it was funny. ("Chimes Accepts Black Man" was particularly funny). It went downhill from there.

[strummer8526]

Here are the articles they're mad about: picasaweb.google.com/c.s.parker2/NotALaughingMatter#5319491737065604050

Some, I agree, are ridiculous. Did they really have to talk about interracial "f---ing" so much? I just don't see the humor. But others are somewhat innocuous. Like the one about III to take Pops' advice. Look, Thompson said we need thugs. I don't think it was a racial statement when he said it, nor a racial statement when the Hoya made a joke about it.

Overall, they're about 1/2 right. Some of the articles are ridiculous and really had no business being printed. But some of it is being blown a tad out of proportion.

EDIT: On second read, they could have included a SINGLE white guy as a "thug coach." Seriously, we white folks have our share of thugs too. It was toeing the line to have only black guys named. And considering how close to the line they already were, I can see how that one would get roped in also.

Also, why weren't they all arrested in the Hoya office? Agree with them or not, if it's 11pm and you don't write for the Hoya, you're trespassing, plain and simple. There are more effective ways to communicate these problems than to behave like petulant children. It frustrates me when reasonable causes are ruined by the ways they're communicated.

And AGAIN, I ask: WHERE ARE THE BLACK STUDENTS LOOKING TO BECOME EDITORS OF THE HOYA? It is no excuse for white kids to publish un-funny junk, but why aren't there any black Hoyas getting into these organizations and dealing with these sorts of issues BEFORE they go to print? In 2 years at Georgetown, I was personally accused of racial insensitivity a few times too many, and my answer was always the same: no one applied. So when is someone going to deal with THAT root cause of all of this and stop pretending that NSO-style "Why We Should Appreciate ___" story-time is going to make anything better?


Finally, THIS is the GUSA President:

"GUSA President Calen Angert (MSB ’11), who was present at the sit-in, said after the sit-in that he was offended on both a personal and institutional level.

'I’m straight up appalled. GUSA as a whole is taking a stand that this is not acceptable,' he said. 'Some of the articles were blatantly racist. There needs to be some recognition that that’s not OK. I was there because I wanted that sentiment to be fulfilled.'

What the hell does "fulfilling" a sentiment mean?

[jgalt]

Of those three articles, ONE was offensive. The first one is Offensive, and not even funny; it is offensive because there is latent racism, but even more so because it is all about crude sex. I thought only the Voice was classless enough to publish the F word?

as a note: i am assuming that the marked portions are the articles are the portions that were seen as the most "offensive"

On the Second article (the diversity one):

- isnt it a running joke that there is little diversity at Gtown (something i dont agree with but that is neither here nor there)? how is it offensive to make fun of that? isnt that more of a stereotype of the whole university.

-if the aim of the protest was to increase awareness of diversity, is this article not in line with that sentiment? it is showing the absurdity of the administration touting the non existent diversity on campus!

-how is claiming that there are neo-Nazis on campus offensive? they didnt say who they were, so it was impossible to be slanderous (or libelous which ever it is) and if there were Neo-Nazis on campus, wouldnt those people be proud of it? it IS a choice they would be making. they probably would welcome the press on their racist group. not only that, it may not even be a lie: in the voice's 40th anniversary edition they published an article, from the 80s, that quoted an actual Young National Socialist Group on campus!

-how i the line "Our black student population is a whopping 6.7 percent, up from 0 percent when we started 200 years ago." offensive? it is factually correct in every way!

-the article even points to the hoya's lack of diversity and the tone suggests that they understand this is a fault

-yes all those organizations they listed are stereotypical of blacks, but that was the point! again the point of the article was to point to a lack of diversity and how it is absurd to think that Gtown is an especially diverse place.

-all in all, it is clear that, with this article, the humor was lost on those offended by it.

Third article (the Thug one):

-clearly some people didnt here JT say this team needs more thugs. if they have a beef with that idea, it is with JT, not the Hoya

-yes all of the "thugs" they cited in the article were black, but they never mentioned that in the article. In fact race was never mentioned in the article. the basis for those players being thugs was their actions, something that is independent of race, and is wholly a choice made by the individual. it didnt say (implicitly or explicitly) "ron artest is a thug because he is black" it said, explicitly, "ron artest is a thug because of his involvement in a fight at a basketball game"

-the article can only be taken as racist if you (the reader) assume that those individuals were chosen because they were black. that is an issue with you not with the writer. it was clear from the article that the actions of those individuals made them "thugs" not their race.

[theexorcist]

One offensive article is one article too many.

I've got other issues about students occupying an office - this isn't France, we don't strike over here - but college students needs to realize that a) they're not as funny as they think they are, and b) due to a), what they think to be witty, rapier-like jabs at racism usually don't work.

[PhillyHoya]

I honestly thought the protest article was an April Fools article that got posted on The Hoya's website. Yeah, they said some stupid things but it was a joke. It's not like they called for a lynching or something.

Georgetown just keeps turning more and more into PCU. WE'RE NOT GONNA PROTEST! Gunner is a tool!

[Bando]

And AGAIN, I ask: WHERE ARE THE BLACK STUDENTS LOOKING TO BECOME EDITORS OF THE HOYA? It is no excuse for white kids to publish un-funny junk, but why aren't there any black Hoyas getting into these organizations and dealing with these sorts of issues BEFORE they go to print? In 2 years at Georgetown, I was personally accused of racial insensitivity a few times too many, and my answer was always the same: no one applied.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. You're basically saying that white kids can't help being racist unless there's black kids around to temper them. I mean, that's offensive to both white and black people. You say "it's no excuse" and then you go ahead and make it an excuse.

As for the issue, it seems whoever wrote it thought that "shocking" was the same thing as "funny". If these articles were actually funny, the protest against them wouldn't be so widespread.

[afirth]

I agree that the first article in that link (about interracial loving) was the worst one. It's not even a little bit funny. The other two (making fun of our lack of diversity, and the JTIII/Pops thug article), well, I wouldn't have found them offensive, but then again I was never a minority at Georgetown.

While the staged sit-in at The Hoya's offices was a little extreme, I think the "interracial loving" article definitely crossed the line and was maybe worth protesting (and certainly more offensive/worth protesting than, for instance, GUGS's "Grade A Size D" shirts from last year).

[strummer8526]

Apr 3, 2009 13:24:34 GMT -5 Bando said:

And AGAIN, I ask: WHERE ARE THE BLACK STUDENTS LOOKING TO BECOME EDITORS OF THE HOYA? It is no excuse for white kids to publish un-funny junk, but why aren't there any black Hoyas getting into these organizations and dealing with these sorts of issues BEFORE they go to print? In 2 years at Georgetown, I was personally accused of racial insensitivity a few times too many, and my answer was always the same: no one applied.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. You're basically saying that white kids can't help being racist unless there's black kids around to temper them. I mean, that's offensive to both white and black people. You say "it's no excuse" and then you go ahead and make it an excuse.

As for the issue, it seems whoever wrote it thought that "shocking" was the same thing as "funny". If these articles were actually funny, the protest against them wouldn't be so widespread.

Well this Hoya isn't the best example of what I'm referring to. As I said, the fact that there were no black editors involved here is not an excuse for the Hoya's printing some of these things (namely the interracial love one). Anyone with any common sense—white or black—should have decided to pull that.

But in general, the lack of black representation in student groups is a problem. For instance, when I was involved with SCC, I would get approached about how few "students of color" (not my phrasing) were attending certain things. And my answer to my white companion was "What should we have done to make this more appealing?" She said "I don't know." I said, "I don't know either." And then we went back to our 45 person SCC with one black member and which had been formed after rejecting literally ZERO applications.

When I complain about the lack of minority involvement, that's more what I'm thinking of. The white kids at Georgetown can't be mind readers. I think the Jena issue was more along the lines of what I'm talking about. How could a white kid from NJ know what some high school violence in Louisiana meant to a community of which he is not a part?

The April Fools issue is somewhat different. Obvious lines were crossed in a few ways ("cocoa puffs"? Really?). But it still would have helped to have a black student in the room who could have pointed out what should have been obvious anyway.

[PhillyHoya]

To say something that is entirely a joke, I thought Obama being President now made everything sunshine, rainbows and puppies. Guess not.

[Bando]

Apr 3, 2009 16:15:09 GMT -5 PhillyHoya said:

To say something that is entirely a joke, I thought Obama being President now made everything sunshine, rainbows and puppies. Guess not.

Again, jokes should be funny. Just because you're not being entirely serious does not make it a joke.

[thebin]

Students having a sit-in against free expresssion (no matter how crass) by the student paper? I just threw up in my mouth.

Free expression, by the student press no less, is a ZERO TOLERANCE issue for me, trumping the balls off of the "right" not to be offended. What were they calling for at the sit in exactly? Censure?

[JimmyHoya]

Apr 3, 2009 11:02:07 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Finally, THIS is the GUSA President:

"GUSA President Calen Angert (MSB ’11), who was present at the sit-in, said after the sit-in that he was offended on both a personal and institutional level.

'I’m straight up appalled. GUSA as a whole is taking a stand that this is not acceptable,' he said. 'Some of the articles were blatantly racist. There needs to be some recognition that that’s not OK. I was there because I wanted that sentiment to be fulfilled.'

What the hell does "fulfilling" a sentiment mean?

Hahahaha.

Has any other politician been "straight up" anything before? Not the best first week for the new guy.

[thebin]

It takes a very simple mind indeed to read "racism" into a crass article that mentions race. Being crude about race is not the same thing as being racist. Deep down inside people know this, but it's just easier to cover your ass and pretend to be offended on a fundamental and actionable level by tasteless jokes.

You do not have a right not to be offended in a free society. Those two things cannot coexist at once. And let's be real, what offended people in that article was sexual content. If they saw only the racial content of it, they would seem to be admitting they have their own issues with interracial sex. What people read into that article is more telling that what was actually written in it. But of course it's easier to claim racism on behalf of non-existent victims and make yourself look good while doing it than risk being made to look a puritan.

[Cambridge]

Is this the same coalition of people who protested the GUGS Grills Gone Wild event?

[SoCalHoya]

Well, in my opinion, the Hoya has a right to publish stuff like this. But it doesn't mean the students/public don't also have a right to raise hell about it (not in a UMCP burn-couch way). It probably would've been more effective to publish a series of editorials in the Hoya or Voice, though. Maybe those avenues weren't open for the upset members of the community.

[jgalt]

There will be a "community forum" tomorrow night at 9:30 in gaston to "examine the newspaper's community dimension, its role in fostering and reporting on campus diversity, and ways in which it can better execute its mission"

[strummer8526]

Apr 6, 2009 20:38:42 GMT -5 jgalt said:

There will be a "community forum" tomorrow night at 9:30 in gaston to "examine the newspaper's community dimension, its role in fostering and reporting on campus diversity, and ways in which it can better execute its mission"

Well, yet again, another useless forum that doesn't get down to the heart of racial tensions on campus.

[jgalt]

Apr 6, 2009 20:49:40 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Apr 6, 2009 20:38:42 GMT -5 jgalt said:

There will be a "community forum" tomorrow night at 9:30 in gaston to "examine the newspaper's community dimension, its role in fostering and reporting on campus diversity, and ways in which it can better execute its mission"

Well, yet again, another useless forum that doesn't get down to the heart of racial tensions on campus.

What were you expecting??? something productive?

i actually might go, if my hockey game finishes quickly

[thebin]

Apr 6, 2009 17:56:51 GMT -5 SoCalHoya said:

Well, in my opinion, the Hoya has a right to publish stuff like this. But it doesn't mean the students/public don't also have a right to raise hell about it (not in a UMCP burn-couch way). It probably would've been more effective to publish a series of editorials in the Hoya or Voice, though. Maybe those avenues weren't open for the upset members of the community.

Of course I agree that people have a right not to be happy with the free expression of others and of course may rebut with their own free expression. I guess the crux of this is what is a reasonable retort. For words alleged to offend, the retort should take the form of words, no? From what I can tell the "sit in" was in the Hoya offices. Is that correct? It seemed to me (from a Hoya photo) like demonstrators were crowding up against the Hoya staff trying to work in their offices in a way that could certainly be considered intimidating and at the very least extremely disruptive. I'm not OK with that sort of a physical response to words that may have offended. The whole idea of a "sit in" involves a small group of angry people disrupting people whom they believe have slighted them in some significant way. This seems to me to absolutely involve elements of coercion and intimidation and smacks of bully tactics. While there may be occasions where this type of demonstration is morally defensible, if not legal, words in a joke newspaper should not be sufficient for such an action. Especially words written by people whose racial attitudes might elicit some goddamn benefit of the doubt (editorial staff at elite university paper) in this day and age by people who actually WANT to improve racial discord more than they want to be seen fighting it.

[thebin]

Apr 6, 2009 20:49:40 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Apr 6, 2009 20:38:42 GMT -5 jgalt said:

There will be a "community forum" tomorrow night at 9:30 in gaston to "examine the newspaper's community dimension, its role in fostering and reporting on campus diversity, and ways in which it can better execute its mission"

Well, yet again, another useless forum that doesn't get down to the heart of racial tensions on campus.

Is this an insufficient level of grovelling for you? Because I must admit it's entirely too much grovelling from a newspaper for my tastes. But then I really take that feree expression thing seriously, yes, even if that means in our extremely sensitive age people might feel offended in the offing. Have we concluded that the Hoya staff's April Fools edition is what is at "the heart of racial tensions on campus" whatever the hell that means in 2009?