D. Summers = Glenn Robinson

[michaelgrahamfan]

I know this may be crazy, but after reading the box score the similarities are striking between these two players. Lots of points and steals, fair on rebounds and matador defense. I suffered for years watching the incomplete game of the Big Dog Robinson. Eventually it came out that his lateral foot speed was awful and was not going to get better. His hands were quick which accounted for the steals, but he would get dunked on a lot. I wonder if this is the same story for Summers. Physically they are almost identical. If that is the case, he would be better off in the NBA than the BE.

[robbyt]

Ha ha, interesting. I feel your pain. Lateral movement is not his forte, and unfortunately you gotta do that to play D and to get by your man to the basket, so maybe that's why he lives by the three and the dunk, a spotty existence.

Just looking at DaJuan, I have noticed he keeps getting more jacked in the upper body, but the trend in both pro and college basketball has actually been to get guys leaner up top and build up their legs. Case in point: Kyle Singler, who was said to have added 20 lbs last summer chiefly on his legs. That won't make DaJuan into Gary Payton, but it couldn't hurt.

Again, though, we had this debate multiple times at the beginning of the season, I just don't buy that he gets a free pass out of playing the post because it's "not his game." The guy is like 20 he doesn't know what his game is yet. I especially don't buy it at Georgetown, the Academy of Posthood. I would be embarassed to be a 6'8 forward and jacked at Georgetown University and not have developed a post game. I would also be embarassed to be a coach that allowed him to get away with it.

[Big Dog]

Mar 19, 2009 10:58:58 GMT -5 michaelgrahamfan said:

I know this may be crazy, but after reading the box score the similarities are striking between these two players. Lots of points and steals, fair on rebounds and matador defense. I suffered for years watching the incomplete game of the Big Dog Robinson. Eventually it came out that his lateral foot speed was awful and was not going to get better. His hands were quick which accounted for the steals, but he would get dunked on a lot. I wonder if this is the same story for Summers. Physically they are almost identical. If that is the case, he would be better off in the NBA than the BE.

Given my handle on this board, I don't think you should be surprised to learn that I've previously made this exact comparison. Summers doesn't have quite the consistent stroke, obviously, and Glenn was a smart player despite his reputation. I don't think Summers is going to enter the League and put up 21 a night.

[RDF]

He sure as hell isn't Big Dog in College--who was dominant and led Purdue singlehandedly to a Regional Final.

Summers has potential as a ball handler--he just needs to master it in offseason. Dog never did--but he could score on anyone in college and he BOARDED LIKE A BEAST. Summers doesn't like to mix it up as much as Dog did.

[SFHoya99]

Well, he's fat and lazy pro Glenn Robinson. Big Dog was awesome in college.

[HoyaFanNY]

summers shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as big dog. robinson was as dominant a college player as i've seen the last 20 years. he was carmello anthony on steroids.

as a pro, he was strictly a scorer, but a good one. over 20ppg 8 seasons. not a bad career.

[Big Dog]

Mar 19, 2009 11:48:27 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Well, he's fat and lazy pro Glenn Robinson. Big Dog was awesome in college.

Of course, "fat and lazy" pro Glenn Robinson was still a career 20.7 ppg scorer, two-time NBA All Star, NBA champion, and essential piece to the 2001 Bucks team that was one non-rigged officiating crew away from an appearance in the NBA Finals. He was substantially better than a player like Allan Houston, who received 5 times the acclaim simply by virtue of wearing a Knicks jersey.

Obviously he was overshadowed by Jason Kidd and Grant Hill, taken right after him. In the end though, I'd rather have had Dog's career than Hill's (though clearly not Kidd's).

[Big Dog]

Mar 19, 2009 12:07:48 GMT -5 HoyaFanNY said:

summers shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as big dog. robinson was as dominant a college player as i've seen the last 20 years. he was carmello anthony on steroids.

I think the physical comparison it what is driving this. The two seem to carry themselves similarly on the floor, have the same above it all attitude, and were similar in stature and body type.

But yes, Big Dog was just awesome in a college, and a much better pro than people give him credit for (and than Summers will ever be).

[RDF]

I'd take Glenn Robinson over Dajuan Summers every day of week.

I just want Summers to dedicate himself to being a better player. It doesn't matter what his intentions are--he's got a TON OF WORK ahead of him in terms of individual development. He's got the deep jumper down. Dajuan specifically needs to learn:

1. How to dribble and dribble under control

2. How to use his size on block when matched with smaller player as he will be next year if he returns--he'll be back at SF spot

3. Learn to embrace the challenge of wanting to be best player. You have to want to guard opposing team's best guy, you have to want lead, and be a leader who understands when it's time to DEMAND the ball and when it's time to distribute and focus on other aspects--like defense, rebounding, etc.....

These are all possible--but does he want it bad enough? Coaches/fans can want it all they want--but it doesn't matter unless player does what is necessary in offseason.

[professorhoya]

Mar 19, 2009 10:58:58 GMT -5 michaelgrahamfan said:

I know this may be crazy, but after reading the box score the similarities are striking between these two players. Lots of points and steals, fair on rebounds and matador defense. I suffered for years watching the incomplete game of the Big Dog Robinson. Eventually it came out that his lateral foot speed was awful and was not going to get better. His hands were quick which accounted for the steals, but he would get dunked on a lot. I wonder if this is the same story for Summers. Physically they are almost identical. If that is the case, he would be better off in the NBA than the BE.

Robinson was much better in College. With the shortened college 3 point line he was unstoppable. When everyone was jumping on his bandwagon, I knew he wouldn't succeed at the next level because you could see he lacked athleticism and would miss layups by fumbling the ball out of his hands with his small hands.

Summes is actually much bigger physically and is more athletic but doesn't have as assertive of an offensive game.
Summers is more like Derrick McKey or Chris Morris (but less athletic).

[sleepy]

Mar 19, 2009 12:32:40 GMT -5 RDF said:

I'd take Glenn Robinson over Dajuan Summers every day of week.

I just want Summers to dedicate himself to being a better player. It doesn't matter what his intentions are--he's got a TON OF WORK ahead of him in terms of individual development. He's got the deep jumper down. Dajuan specifically needs to learn:

1. How to dribble and dribble under control

2. How to use his size on block when matched with smaller player as he will be next year if he returns--he'll be back at SF spot

3. Learn to embrace the challenge of wanting to be best player. You have to want to guard opposing team's best guy, you have to want lead, and be a leader who understands when it's time to DEMAND the ball and when it's time to distribute and focus on other aspects--like defense, rebounding, etc.....

These are all possible--but does he want it bad enough? Coaches/fans can want it all they want--but it doesn't matter unless player does what is necessary in offseason.

RDF, why do you think he will be back to the SF spot next year if he returns? Do you think Sims will start at the four?

Also I agree with all three of those. If Summers stays, I think he just needs to put it all together next year.

[daytonahoya31]

this shouldn't even be a discussion.

Summers isn't a tenth of the player Big Dog was in college. Not. Even. Close.

[daytonahoya31]

Professor,

How did Big Dog not succeed at the next level? He averaged 20 a game over the course of his career. He was an all-star...twice, and an NBA champion. He may not have lived up to that contract he got out of college, but to say he didn't succeed as a pro is way, way off base

[hifigator]

daytona, I agree with you after looking at the numbers, but in all honesty, my initial impression was more like the professors. I'm not sure whether it was a TV thing -- we don't see many Bucks game down here -- or whether it was just a matter of having tremendous expectations coming out of college. At the time, I still collected sports cards. His rookie season was also Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway's if I remember correctly, and those two cards, from any of the premium companies were like gold for quite a while. I can't remember exactly which year, but I want to say it was either 1 or 2 years after the class that had Shaq, Mourning, Gugliotta and Harold Minor among others. In any case, there was a ton of hype over the Big Dog and in that regard, I don't think he lived up to it.

[daytonahoya31]

what he didn't live up to was that 68 million dollar contract he got as a rookie, which, I believe, was the final straw that sparked the current rookie scale in today's collective bargaining agreement. And how could he? It was ridiculous. Still, Glenn was a good to very good player for a long time. You just don't average 20 points per game over a decade without having a little talent. That and the fact that Robinson was one of the main guys on those Bucks teams, to me, acquits his career well. And he was a key role player on that Spurs team that won the title in 2002.

He had a good career. No doubt about that

[sleepyjackson21]

Big Dog was unstoppable at Purdue. He flat out dominated. If we had Glenn Robinson on our team this season we would have a good shot to make the Final Four. The guy averaged 30.3 ppg and more importantly 10.1 rpg in the then very strong Big Ten.

[professorhoya]

Mar 19, 2009 16:15:42 GMT -5 daytonahoya31 said:

Professor,

How did Big Dog not succeed at the next level? He averaged 20 a game over the course of his career. He was an all-star...twice, and an NBA champion. He may not have lived up to that contract he got out of college, but to say he didn't succeed as a pro is way, way off base

He didn't replicate the dominance he had in his college career. Everyone's expectations of the Big Dog was that he was going to dominate the NBA because of his tournament performance.

At the time I said that Jason Kidd was going to be a much better player and even Grant Hill was better but nobody listened. They all bought into the media hype.

I saw flaws in Big Dog's game such as missing easy breakaway layups and lack of quickness/speed and questioned whether the NBA 3 Pt line would give him problems. I projected Big Dog to be about as good as Glen Rice if things went well for him. Which means a Tertiary or secondary player. Not a go to Franchise player.

Scoring 20 is nice but if you are given 25 shots a game and are the go to guy on the team that's not hard to do for 75% of NBA swingmen. Guys like that are pretty plentiful. I would not waste the Number 1 pick on him when you have Jason Kidd and Grant Hill on the board. Also keep in mind that the NBA had some sort of policy back then to try to get at least one All-Star from each team. The Bucks always sucked so Big Dog was sort of the default All-Star pick. I don't think he was ever voted on the All-Star team.

Dunleavy was an idiot for drafting him #1. He bought into the hype. Is Dog even still in the NBA?

I think history has proven me right that Jason Kidd was a much better player then Big Dog and should have been drafted #1. There was no doubt in my mind that Kidd was way above Big Dog. But at the time everyone was worshipping the Big Dog. Made no sense at all to me.

Grant Hill was a better player too. Unfortunatley that injury to his leg in Detroit during the playoffs killed him as a player. He was never the same after that. But you can't really account for injuries unless they have a history of injury and Hill didn't have an injury problem at Duke.

[richfame]

How about SUMMERS= A POOR MANS SAM PERKINS? Big smooth was a good long distance shooter and pretty much didnt do much of anythign else especially later in his nba career.. Obvi heavier than summers but both p layers cant dribble or create right??

[professorhoya]

Mar 19, 2009 18:10:51 GMT -5 richfame said:

How about SUMMERS= A POOR MANS SAM PERKINS? Big smooth was a good long distance shooter and pretty much didnt do much of anythign else especially later in his nba career.. Obvi heavier than summers but both p layers cant dribble or create right??

Perkins was a very good shot blocker because he had extremley long arms for a 6-9 player. His long arms also allowed him to rebound. In a sense he was more of a center/power forward on defense but on offense would pull the center out to the 3 point line.

Summers is a Small Forward on offense basically playing the Power forward position. The problem with that is when the Small Forward shoots from outside then there is nobody to rebound a miss. Derrick Coleman had this problem when he played power forward in the NBA.

Summers natural position should be small forward which I think he will play in the NBA and might be better then people here expect.

[professorhoya]

Towards the end of his career Sleepy Sam just sat on his Lawn Chair at the 3pt Line launching threes on offense. Basically he was playing halfcourt basketball.