hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 11, 2009 23:07:27 GMT -5
This was an excellent effort and thanks to all the Board members who participated and shared their insights and expertise. It was nice to read an intelligent thoughtful dialogue -- something that's been in scarce supply around here.
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whatmaroon
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Post by whatmaroon on Feb 11, 2009 23:30:56 GMT -5
Thanks to all the roundtable participants, and thanks to the mod for tightening up comments as SF suggested. In terms of CIL management, Barker's comments should have been auto-approved so there was no delay in posting and it was more clear he was one of the roundtable people instead of a semi-random person.
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Feb 11, 2009 23:46:38 GMT -5
Thanks to all the roundtable participants, and thanks to the mod for tightening up comments as SF suggested. In terms of CIL management, Barker's comments should have been auto-approved so there was no delay in posting and it was more clear he was one of the roundtable people instead of a semi-random person. You are certainly right -- we were worried that since he was having technology trouble and couldn't log in as a panelist, that theoretically someone else could start posting comments as "BDavis" and say whatever they wanted, so that's why we wanted to keep approving comments.
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dchoyafan
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by dchoyafan on Feb 12, 2009 0:28:21 GMT -5
I do wish Barker or one of the other panelists had answered a few of the questions about transfers under JT3... Some of the questions were maybe overreacting, but transfers HAVE been a constant under JT3, and I feel like our losses have finally caught up and hurt us this year with so few upperclassmen left....
Egerson, Macklin, Rivers etc come to mind as players whose leaving didn't seem so crucial at the time, but who we could seriously have used this year.
The real question is WHY so many transfers? The Princeton offense is a difficult one to learn, and it will be tough to maintain consistent success when players transfer out before they really get it, or get a chance to thrive in the system.
We better hope that players don't transfer out after this year, especially with so few recruits coming in. The frustration of losing + apparent lack of chemistry and team cohesion are worrying, and hopefully don't lead to transfers. It is definitely something to keep an eye on, because we can't really afford to lose anyone, esp if Monroe goes pro.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Feb 12, 2009 0:39:24 GMT -5
Why is it that a differentiation is made between playing for the team and playing for themselves? They are the same thing. The ONLY way this team and, thus, its players look good or "improve their stock" is by playing their role and (hopefully) having success doing it (see Jeff Green and his less than Earth-shattering numbers). Neither Sapp nor Summers is gonna put up 35 with 10 boards and carry this team. We know this. They know this. Just do the job well and everyone comes out the other end looking way flippin' better than they do right now. Yeah... go for yours. That's done wonders for your rep so far.
That having been said, I think the selfishness is a little overstated. I do think that DaJuan and Jesse want this team to succeed and have tried, at times (though largely unsuccessfully), to do too much to pull the team along. I prefer to think that way and view it that way anyway. Play how you've shown yourselves capable of playing within your respective roles and all will be fine. I'd like to see DaJuan hit the boards and show a little midrange and a little less of attacking for the sake of attacking. For Jessie, I'd like to see him distribute the ball and take every open look he gets. No more ill-advised shots cuz the other guys aren't helping. That's on them. Get yours THAT way. Play smart ball. Hoya ball. It'll do wonders for both of you and for the team. In any case, I'm sure we'll never know what's been up with Jessie this season. We'll never have a definitive answer. As much as I hate not knowing, I love that it stays within the team. That's how it should be. I'd like to see Jessie return to form at the tail end of his senior year for his sake as this season is not indicative of what he's been to this program and, regardless of how the rest of the season goes, I won't remember him for the downs but for all of the ups he's given us.
HOYA SAXA. And, in case y'all forgot, you STILL can't spell SUCKS without SU. Time to get healthy... get some vitamin C.... eat the Orange.
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 12, 2009 9:09:51 GMT -5
Don't other programs have transfers, too? And don't we sometimes get transfers? It's a natural part of college basketball. I don't understand the obsession some people have with this.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 12, 2009 9:30:20 GMT -5
I think the total is six transfers in five years. Not positive, but I think that's right (JR, Vern, Tay, Egg, Cornelio & Reed, right?).
Not a tremendously huge number. Sure we'd like it to be fewer, but I think we also recognize in a few of those cases that transferring was the best option.
I don't see this as a big problem.
I thought the forum was a good read (I read through it after the fact). There were a few comments from Barker Davis that I found really kind of suspect though.
I have no reason not to, so I am going to believe the forum moderators when they say that "BDavis" was, in fact, Barker Davis. But I find it more than a little unprofessional for a sportswriter, even in an Internet forum, to be teeing off on individual players in the manner that BDavis was, particularly against Austin Freeman. I also didn't really care for the "What the hell?" comment directed at the coaching staff.
It's not that I thought the criticisms were wildly off base, it was more the manner and tone in which they were posited, which I found well below the standards of a professional journalist. If that really was Barker Davis, I think I lost a bit of respect for him for some of those outbursts (not to mention that he may have lost himself a fair bit of access, if anyone in the SID office was paying attention). If it was not him, well then, that's a whole 'nother 10-page discussion thread we can have.
EDIT: I didn't post my edit before guru's response, but I was going to add that I acknowledge that I may be hypersensitive on this topic, given the subject matter. After all, all I have to do is turn my TV on to ESPN any day of the week to see journalists behaving in a FAR less professional manner.
Plus, he called someone else Boz who wasn't me and that Editedes me off!!! ;D ;D
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 12, 2009 9:34:21 GMT -5
I thought Davis' (if that WAS Davis!) candor was pretty refreshing. I totally agree with his comments about Freeman - his regression has been the single biggest negative impact on this team. We need scoring from that position, and leadership in running the offense. He has scored OK, not great, but he plays with a lack of fire that borders on laziness. For a person covering the team not to notice that would be troubling - I guess he could have toned it down a bit in a public chat, but I never really thought he crossed the line.
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H2Oya 05
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Let's go Hoyas!
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Post by H2Oya 05 on Feb 12, 2009 9:39:31 GMT -5
Didn't Matt Causey transfer as well?
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Feb 12, 2009 9:43:02 GMT -5
I think the total is six transfers in five years. Not positive, but I think that's right (JR, Vern, Tay, Egg, Cornelio & Reed, right?). Not a tremendously huge number. Sure we'd like it to be fewer, but I think we also recognize in a few of those cases that transferring was the best option. I don't see this as a big problem. I thought the forum was a good read (I read through it after the fact). There were a few comments from Barker Davis that I found really kind of suspect though. I have no reason not to, so I am going to believe the forum moderators when they say that "BDavis" was, in fact, Barker Davis. But I find it more than a little unprofessional for a sportswriter, even in an Internet forum, to be teeing off on individual players in the manner that BDavis was, particularly against Austin Freeman. I also didn't really care for the "What the hell?" comment directed at the coaching staff. It's not that I thought the criticisms were wildly off base, it was more the manner and tone in which they were posited, which I found well below the standards of a professional journalist. If that really was Barker Davis, I think I lost a bit of respect for him for some of those outbursts (not to mention that he may have lost himself a fair bit of access, if anyone in the SID office was paying attention). If it was not him, well then, that's a whole 'nother 10-page discussion thread we can have. EDIT: I didn't post my edit before guru's response, but I was going to add that I acknowledge that I may be hypersensitive on this topic, given the subject matter. After all, all I have to do is turn my TV on to ESPN any day of the week to see journalists behaving in a FAR less professional manner. Plus, he called someone else Boz who wasn't me and that Editedes me off!!! ;D ;D Boz - you forgot Josh Thornton (the class was Jessie, Marc, Josh and Tay). I believe Causey transferred before 3 got here. Am i mistaken? I thought he was an Esh transfer.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 12, 2009 9:52:30 GMT -5
He transferred once III was hired but probably shouldn't be attributed to III.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 12, 2009 9:55:20 GMT -5
Some feedback/suggestions on he forum:
1. Great idea. 2. Less people. It was too many. No one in particular, though you wouldn't want to boot the draws, which are the beat writers. 3. More structure. 4. No outside comments. That's what message boards are for. Let people submit questions but no matter how reasoned it is, I don't want to see a comment from Joe Schmoe when I'm waiting for a response from a beat writer.
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VelvetElvis
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pka MrPathetic
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Post by VelvetElvis on Feb 12, 2009 10:02:39 GMT -5
I agree with BDavis (or whoever was posting under that handle). I have grown tired of seeing him play with that annoying indifference. He does stand around on both ends and he is good for 1-2 TO per game resulting from a lack of concentration.
Also, I can't see him competing at the 2 in the Big East playing the way that he plays. I admit that I didn't see that experiment last Saturday, but it didnt sound like it went well at all!
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Post by dungeon ball on Feb 12, 2009 10:29:21 GMT -5
Saw this comment in the chat: [Comment From BDavis] With AO injured, don't be surprised if you see a good deal of Sims. Monroe will be by far the most experienced true big on the floor. How scary is that? --------------------------------- Is Onuaku hurt? What was he referring to?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 12, 2009 10:37:00 GMT -5
Saw this comment in the chat: [Comment From BDavis] With AO injured, don't be surprised if you see a good deal of Sims. Monroe will be by far the most experienced true big on the floor. How scary is that? --------------------------------- Is Onuaku hurt? What was he referring to? Onuaka's dealing with tendinitis in his knee. blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2009/02/onuaku_cant_get_his_timing_dow.html
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 12, 2009 12:11:30 GMT -5
I think the total is six transfers in five years. Not positive, but I think that's right (JR, Vern, Tay, Egg, Cornelio & Reed, right?). Not a tremendously huge number. The numbers that I look at are how many of JT3's recruits have transferred. His first real class arrived in Sept. '05Egerson, Sapp, Spann, Thornton. 4 kids, 3 transfers Sept. '06Macklin, Rivers, Summers. 3 kids, 2 transfers Sept. '07Freeman, Wright, Wattad, Nikita -- too soon to tell This is JT3's 5th season and it is ongoing, so we can't say who will or will not transfer this year. But in the previous 2 years, 5 of 7 recruits transferred already. That is not good by any measure. That's why this team has no depth and no senior leadership to speak of Plus, you had Ray Reed, Causey and Cornelio before that.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 12, 2009 13:07:38 GMT -5
It's not really appropriate to leave out players who III didn't recruit but still played for him unless your premise is that he's somehow recruiting transfer-prone players.
Furthermore, leaving them out clouds that most of his early recruits were mostly playing time based. We had a great '04 class that these guys were going to sit behind forever -- and most of them were not willing to sit.
There's a different cause for each, and to figure out if there's an issue, you need to actually look at why people transferred and who didn't.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 12, 2009 13:38:47 GMT -5
If it is not appropriate to leave out players who III didn't recruit but still played for him - then why is it appropriate to give III credit for those he didn't recruit but still played for him (Green, Hibbert, Crawford)?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 12, 2009 13:40:25 GMT -5
If it is not appropriate to leave out players who III didn't recruit but still played for him - then why is it appropriate to give III credit for those he didn't recruit but still played for him (Green, Hibbert, Crawford)? SF was saying that when you are counting transfers, that its not appropriate to leave out Giubunda and Ray Reed because they played for III, even if he didn't recruit them
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 12, 2009 13:44:16 GMT -5
If it is not appropriate to leave out players who III didn't recruit but still played for him - then why is it appropriate to give III credit for those he didn't recruit but still played for him (Green, Hibbert, Crawford)? Right, I was saying it both ways. The relevant set of players to look at includes everyone who played for III, not simply those he recruited. If anything, people not recruited by a new coach have a higher tendency to leave. So you and I are agreeing. The fact that we had a five man class that stayed 16 of 20 years, plus Ewing transfer in should be counted. That was the core of the team. Of course people like Cornelio, Spann, and Thornton transferred -- they were never going to get much time without huge improvement.
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