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Post by GTown05Pa on Feb 4, 2005 11:41:11 GMT -5
First time poster, long time observer...
I love what Jeff Green brings to this team, but I have a slight complaint about his recent offensive tenacity after watching the Seton Hall game.
Did anyone else feel that Jeff was a little too passive on offense? I felt like there were a lot of times when he had the ball on the foul line where he just should have faced the basket and taken his defender to the hole. Likewise, sometimes when he's in the post, it seems like he's reluctant to back his man down all the way to the basket. He has the quickness, the hands, and the size to be able to do that against many defenders in the BE.
I don't think the Seton Hall game was the only representation of this. Of course, Jeff's been our biggest star this year, and without him we wouldn't be 14-6 6-3. I just think he can augment his great game by being maybe just a little more...um...ferocious?...on offense!
Oh, and I've been seeing some John Wallace trashing! This guy is the first real point guard we've had in awhile, he runs the offense well, he plays hard on defense (see the St. John's game for his 4 steals which went largely unnoticed because he didn't have his best game offensively), and he can shoot from outside. I'm so happy the offense is in his hands for the next 4 years.
Big game on Saturday. Gotta take care of business.
Salvo
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 4, 2005 11:52:03 GMT -5
I hear you. I think Jeff is a disciplined player. He plays within the offense. When I saw him play, there are times where he could take a chance but he stays within the relm of the offense. Which is good, and is why are team is having success. I think yes he has the ability to be a post-up player. And best believe that is what Esh would have had him and Roy do all day. But I don't know if that is what JTIII wants to see in the offense. Jeff is like a point-forward right now. But if he did take chances on offense we probably would call him Bad Brandon II. Its like the Chris Webber complaints about why doesn't he post up more, and he shoots jumpers and is at the top of the key a lot. And why does Webber passes a lot more instead of being more agressive since he has the ability to be a dominant one-on-one inside player. Well, Chris' role in Sacremento's Princeton offense is not to be a post player. So I see what your saying. I don't know if Jeff is asked or expected to do that within the offense, at this time. In the upcoming years, when we get more depth and players, maybe you will see that.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Feb 4, 2005 12:17:36 GMT -5
Agreed. Jeff and Brandon are clearly the most skilled on the offensive end and can usually beat their defenders one-on-one if they get the ball in a good spot. As a result, they should have more of a green light to be aggressive while the rest of the players should settle into their roles and take shots when the opportunities present themselves. Maybe this is not true to the Princeton offense, but we don't have 5 guys of equal skill level either.
Brandon obviously likes to be aggressive (some would argue too much, but I think he has been excellent this year). Jeff should embrace it as well. With confidence and experience, both of which he should have by now as a 15+ game starter, we need him to step up every game. Even when he misses, he often gets his own rebound!!
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 4, 2005 12:23:05 GMT -5
I think you guys are missing the big point here. Jeff is the glue to this team. He does a lot of things that don't show up on the box score, that help this team win as well as having the intangibles. Just because he doesn't score 18 or 20 and have 15 rebounds, doesn't mean his contribution is less. The key to our offense is to get everyone involved, and that is the reason we are winning. Everyone contributes in some form, and Jeff is the main reason why this is occuring.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Feb 4, 2005 12:30:42 GMT -5
I'd also add that Jeff's post game is still developing, and he isn't yet comfortable putting the ball on the floor in traffic. So, as awesome as he is, he isn't a great individual player right now. Against BC he really struggled with his back to the basket on stronger and equally tall players. What he is, it's even better than that. He's the consomate team guy and he makes our offense work. He rebounds, hits threes, and is quite possibly the best passer on the team.
In a year or two, maybe he'll be like Sweets, where you just get him the ball on the block and starting running up court, because it's automatic from there. But right now, that's not the sort of player he is. It's to his credit that he doesn't overreach and start taking bad shots, instead doing everything within the offense, knowing that it'll get him his shots eventually.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 4, 2005 14:03:26 GMT -5
I think you guys are missing the big point here. Jeff is the glue to this team. He does a lot of things that don't show up on the box score, that help this team win as well as having the intangibles. Just because he doesn't score 18 or 20 and have 15 rebounds, doesn't mean his contribution is less. The key to our offense is to get everyone involved, and that is the reason we are winning. Everyone contributes in some form, and Jeff is the main reason why this is occuring. the_way you are exzctly right Green is the glue that keeps everything in tack right now. I am impressed with his maturity. He could take a lot more shots and score more points ,but he understands that would not be good for this team at this time. He now unselfishly rebounds , plays great defense, sets picks and makes good passes. Those things that go unnoticed but are essential to a winning team. All that being said, I am extremely impressed with the decipline and maturity that have been shown by Bowman and Cook. As I watched the game the other night there was only one "bad Bowman" play(attempt at behind the back pass to Hibbert at the top of the key) the whole game. Also Cook only shot one ill-advised shot the whole game. They have been shinning examples for Green on what is needed for this team to win. Many times you have to sacrifice the showcasing of your individual talent for the sake of team chemistry. I love it. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 4, 2005 15:11:49 GMT -5
the_way you are exzctly right Green is the glue that keeps everything in tack right now. I am impressed with his maturity. He could take a lot more shots and score more points ,but he understands that would not be good for this team at this time. He now unselfishly rebounds , plays great defense, sets picks and makes good passes. Those things that go unnoticed but are essential to a winning team. All that being said, I am extremely impressed with the decipline and maturity that have been shown by Bowman and Cook. As I watched the game the other night there was only one "bad Bowman" play(attempt at behind the back pass to Hibbert at the top of the key) the whole game. Also Cook only shot one ill-advised shot the whole game. They have been shinning examples for Green on what is needed for this team to win. Many times you have to sacrifice the showcasing of your individual talent for the sake of team chemistry. I love it. There was another Bad Bowman play in that game. I believe that he missed a layup. |
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 4, 2005 15:16:01 GMT -5
There was another Bad Bowman play in that game. I believe that he missed a layup. One layup.  One missed layup and your complaining. Sheez. Unblievable |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 4, 2005 15:16:32 GMT -5
There was another Bad Bowman play in that game. I believe that he missed a layup. And when he got confused and had a flashback to his days as a fullback. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 4, 2005 15:16:39 GMT -5
One layup. One missed layup, and your complaining. Sheez. Yep. There is no excuse for missing a layup. |
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 4, 2005 15:18:57 GMT -5
Yep. There is no excuse for missing a layup. Pathetic. So that negates his 25 points (14-15 FT) and 7 rebounds that helped the team win. Unbelievable. Oh, if all of us could be as perfect as thou JerseyHoya34.  |
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ShimmyJr
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Post by ShimmyJr on Feb 4, 2005 15:20:28 GMT -5
One layup. One missed layup and your complaining. Sheez. Unblievable the_way, since when has missing lay-ups been acceptable? maybe you are president of the daymond jackson fan club or something, but good teams make lay-ups...glad that you aren't coaching - you sound like esh. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 4, 2005 15:23:19 GMT -5
Pathetic. So that negates his 25 points (14-15 FT) and 7 rebounds that helped the team win. Unbelievable. Oh, if all of us could be as perfect as thou JerseyHoya34. Cut the crap, the_way. I am not saying it negates his performance, which was great. Same thing with Crawford's miss at BC. It hurt, but it didn't negate what Tyler did in the rest of the game. Shimmy is right. Excusing missed layups is Esh-ball. |
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 4, 2005 15:27:56 GMT -5
the_way, since when has missing lay-ups been acceptable? maybe you are president of the daymond jackson fan club or something, but good teams make lay-ups...glad that you aren't coaching - you sound like esh. I'm not saying its good. I'm saying its nitpicking. The man had a great performance, and its bad that he missed a layup? You never missed a layup playing basketball? Like I said, if we mere mortals could be perfect amongst thou alimighty JerseyHoya and Shimmy. We are not worthy. |
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ShimmyJr
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Post by ShimmyJr on Feb 4, 2005 15:38:20 GMT -5
dude i can't deal with you the_way - you are a drama queen
and FYI, I RARELY miss layups playing hoops, and it is not an apt comparison, since I am not, nor have i ever been, on full scholarship at Georgetown for basketball.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 4, 2005 15:40:11 GMT -5
dude i can't deal with you the_way - you are a drama queen and FYI, I RARELY miss layups playing hoops, and it is not an apt comparison, since I am not, nor have i ever been, on full scholarship at Georgetown for basketball. Good for you, Shimmy "Layup" Man. You do play with guys the same age as you, right? Playing against pre-schoolers don't count. |
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Post by HoyaDestroya on Feb 4, 2005 15:42:00 GMT -5
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ShimmyJr
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Post by ShimmyJr on Feb 4, 2005 16:12:47 GMT -5
Good for you, Shimmy "Layup" Man. You do play with guys the same age as you, right? Playing against pre-schoolers don't count. Haha, nice work the_way...Shimmy "Layup" Man - it has a certain ring to it guy... my friends used to say i like the layups, but it had nothing to do with basketball... |
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Feb 4, 2005 16:33:12 GMT -5
If you miss a layup once in a long time, ok, fine, suck it up and get over it. But I think what's being pointed out as a "Bad Brandon" thing is missing a layup that was either too complicated, out of control or rushed. And it's weird to ask the poster if that negated anything, because it seemed to me both he and the other poster were pointing out the RARE things Brandon did poorly last game. In other words, as opposed to last year's system, in which BB could be both great and maddening at the same time, this year he has bought nicely into the new philosophy and his limited miscues can be singled out as not happening very often.
I think the first poster explicitly and Jersey implicitly were giving Brandon credit (even by pointing out a negative) -- "Bad Brandon" is no longer so much an integral part of Bowman's game as isolated, fleeting events. Nice job by both player and coach!
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 4, 2005 16:49:25 GMT -5
kinda agree with everyone but i think brandon is much more in control and consistant this year and secondly i do think jeff in this offense needs to take his man to the hoop a little more often that will keep the princeton offense even more up and the d that would have to watch him more and he can as brandon can i believe most of the time beat their man off the dribble to the hoop... go hoyas go jeff go brandon shoot go everybody wereeeeeeeeeeeeeee backkkkkkkkkkkkkk at the rac tommarrow
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One missed layup and your complaining. Sheez. Unblievable
