SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 4, 2009 21:29:16 GMT -5
I don't get the all the assumptions that seem to be taken as fact. Where has it been demonstrated that Sims has no lateral quickness and is a complete liability on perimeter defense? I certainly haven't seen it. And if this were true, how would it be any different than Freeman, Omar or Nikita? On the defensive end, if nothing else, Henry does provide great help side D. This has been proven on more than one ocassion...which is more than can be said for anyone else on our team save Greg. Second, even in limited minutes, an objective observer can see that Sims brings a lot to the table offensively. He's a good passer. He hustles and battles for offensive rebounds. He has good chemistry with Greg. And, which no one seems to be mentioning, he has a good skillset. He is already a better dribbler than Dajuan. And he can create...the and-one against Rutgers was a very strong, somewhat graceful move to the basket where he got bumped and still made the slight fallaway shot. As much as I love Dajuan, and believe in his NBA future, there is no way he could make that move right now. This post is funny. He has a better handle than DaJuan? Based on what? His one drive to the basket? We can assume that, and but can't use our eyes to see that if Sims had to guard Hayward or Sam Young on the perimeter, it just might be an issue? Sims has strengths and weaknesses like anyone else. Overstating his strengths like easily averaging 6 rebounds per twenty minutes or saying he has a better handle than DaJuan... please. You're undermining your own argument with silly comments. Sims is going to be a great player for us, and I think he's going to earn more and more time. But I'm also certain I will find posts from you about how much better Chris Wright would have been all last year than Jon Wallace. Chris has strengths and weaknesses, too, but when guys get limited minutes, things get exaggerated.
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Post by bbb71 on Feb 4, 2009 21:40:49 GMT -5
One, I didn't make the comments about the 6 boards in 20 minutes. Two, relying on Dajuan's handles to make a point is silly. Dajuan has many skills and talents, dribbling unfortunately is not one of them. It is easy tell that Henry is more comfortable with the ball in his hands twenty feet from the basket. Three, you can tell a lot about a player based on one play. It doesn't take a lot of repetitions to spot talent. Now I'm not trying to say that Henry is an amazing talent...I'm just saying that one play showed me something.
As for Sam Young or Haywood giving Sims trouble. Sure, thats easy to envision. But, they already give all our other players trouble. And, simply because Sam Young could hypothetically light him up doesn't prove Henry Sims is a terrible perimeter defender.
And yes, I am a Chris Wright fan. His talent is considerable. He doesn't posess the same limitations that Jon did. That was the basic point there. If you want to have fun, go look at my posts about Greg when everyone was bashing him about the high school/MD games.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 4, 2009 21:50:33 GMT -5
One, I didn't make the comments about the 6 boards in 20 minutes. Two, relying on Dajuan's handles to make a point is silly. Dajuan has many skills and talents, dribbling unfortunately is not one of them. It is easy tell that Henry is more comfortable with the ball in his hands twenty feet from the basket. Three, you can tell a lot about a player based on one play. It doesn't take a lot of repetitions to spot talent. Now I'm not trying to say that Henry is an amazing talent...I'm just saying that one play showed me something. As for Sam Young or Haywood giving Sims trouble. Sure, thats easy to envision. But, they already give all our other players trouble. And, simply because Sam Young could hypothetically light him up doesn't prove Henry Sims is a terrible perimeter defender. And yes, I am a Chris Wright fan. His talent is considerable. He doesn't posess the same limitations that Jon did. That was the basic point there. If you want to have fun, go look at my posts about Greg when everyone was bashing him about the high school/MD games. Everyone else was not bashing Greg. Quite a few of us always thought he'd be a stud, and that includes me. I'm a Chris Wright fan as well -- he's just struggling right now. And a Sims fan who thinks he does need to get some more time. I'm just saying that he's not the savior that many are painting him as. He has weaknesses and if he's playing 25 minutes a game, he's going to have bad games and get exposed at times. It happens. I just get frustrated with the situation where the guy at the end of the bench is always the answer -- until he's playing and not doing anything perfectly -- and then it's the next guy at the end of the bench.
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Post by bbb71 on Feb 4, 2009 21:59:07 GMT -5
Nor am I suggesting he's a savior. Its just easy to see how giving him more minutes, at the expense of others, would help us.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 4, 2009 22:02:47 GMT -5
seems like you two guys are not really all that far apart.
GO HOYAS! BEAT CINCY!
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 4, 2009 22:50:30 GMT -5
why Austin instead of Sapp?
I want 2 ballhandlers and Sapp adds more defensively and on the glass.
Austin as DaJuan doesn't offer much if not scoring. However he CAN be a great scorer.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Feb 5, 2009 9:45:56 GMT -5
I don't think the line-up needs to change at all. I think people are making too much of Jessie's shooting woes up until Tuesday's game. He was doing a lot of other things to contribute to our team including rebounding and playing defense, which the other guys weren't doing well enough. Remember, this is the same line-up that got beat down by Pitt, but also beat Connecticut. Its the same lineup that beat Memphis, but lost to Seton Hall. The problem is not the lineup. The problem was that our players weren't playing well or as a cohesive unit.
Plus, this minute allotment recommendation is silly because it doesn't take into account that we are playing real teams with lots of different match-ups. Nikita hadn't played in four games, but gave us huge minutes when called upon against Syracuse, and he did a good job against Rutgers. JTIII made those calls, based on what he thought the team needed and what he thought Nikita could give us in that situation. Some games, we can use Henry and Greg together to exploit mismatches. That will depend on who we play the rest of the season. JTIII seems to really concern himself with in-game adjustments and match-ups. That means we will have different looks in many games. I'm fine with that. At the end of the day, if our guys play together and play smart, we can and should beat almost anyone. That is my major concern.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 5, 2009 10:15:11 GMT -5
Regarding Seton Hall, I was at the game. Seton Hall employed a series of rec league level, tree trunk sized big men with limited talent in the front court (but whose sheer weight and mass caused severe problems for our somewhat undersized front court) and what seemed like an endless parade of extremely fast, quick handed, aggressive guards and small forwards at the other positions. The end result was a LOT of turnovers for Gtown and very few rebounds. JTIII was struggling with that issue and employed a lot of guard heavy substitution patters to counteract the turnovers. Sims would not have fared well out there, because he would have likely had similar turnover problems and would have had little chance rebounding against those shrekian ogres Seton Hall employed in the paint.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2009 10:30:34 GMT -5
This thread is a riot. A few last-guy-picked-in-rec-league-games types are certainly better judges of abilities, development and playing time than a guy who has only been able to win championships in 2 leagues, including the toughest league in the country twice - based on some geeky computer stats and one move against a defender who moved slower than the Colossus of Rhodes. And by the way, I have seen Dajuan make that same move a couple of dozen times over his years when played man-to-man(except he usually powers in for the dunk). So maybe we should just let the staff decide the line-up and the playing time, who fits in what situation, etc - and not get so worked up over the need to replace a tested senior with an untested freshmen with big potential but obvious holes at this point.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 5, 2009 12:00:53 GMT -5
Frazier,
are you one of those last-guy-picked-in-rec-league-game types that you speak of?
Just checking
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 5, 2009 12:02:16 GMT -5
I like seeing us play a 2-3 with monroe, sims, and dajuan/nikita in the back the length on the wings of the 2-3 reminds me of the ewing years when we had ewing play on the wing of the 2-3 soemtimes When sims/ewing close out of the three point shot it alomst never goes in because it's so hard to get a shot up over someone that tall.
The only concern is Offensive rebounding, but we give those up anyway frankly so unless it's shown we're giving up considerably more rebounds in these sets I'd like to see more of it. This reduces the liability of having sims guard fast 4's and minimizes our teams terrible latteral quickness that allows opposing guards to drive through our defense.
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dailey247
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Post by dailey247 on Feb 5, 2009 12:37:22 GMT -5
@frazier First of all, I may have been picked last, but my teams usually won. And triple-b was always picked first, so stow that garbage right now. Call statistics "geeky" if you must, but you're only showing your willful ignorance of something that explains and elucidates what happens on the court. This is tantamount to me saying I don't watch the games because the players move too fast and it gives me a headache, but I know who the best guys are because I check who scored the most points in the paper the next morning. If you're not doing both, you're only getting half the story.
Furthermore, I'm not applying to replace the coach, but I'm not going to say that everything he does is beyond reproach. I think that he's an offensive genius who has learned to coach elite defensive basketball. In this one case, I think he might - not is, might - be putting too much emphasis on having players who smoothly run the offense on the court, and is thus losing out on the defensive upgrade that the numbers demonstrate we get when Sims is out there. Reasonable minds can disagree, but I'm seeing at least some support for this idea from a group of people who clearly spend a good portion of their time watching and thinking about basketball.
Now I'm going to use some of your own words against you. I never suggested "replac[ing]" Jessie Sapp, just changing his role to one that can better help the team. Were you opposed to having PE Jr. become our sixth man? Isn't the concensus that his leadership, intensity, and experience was a great help to us coming off the bench? Jessie Sapp is a tested senior, no doubt. He's been tested and shown to be a slightly above-average major college basketball player. Henry Sims is untested. He may be a complete disaster. Or he may be an amazing talent. The only things I have to decide what I think is the truth are 1)the performance I've seen on the court in the games I've watched and 2)the statistical record of those performances. In this case, both suggest - to me - that, in many situations, our defense and rebounding would be improved and our offense would not suffer much if Sims played more. So I'm going to let the staff decide who plays, because that's their job. I'm going to keep doing my "job," so to speak, as a fan, which is to follow the team, learn as much as I can about it, and occasionally bloviate about it on some message board.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2009 12:46:29 GMT -5
Frazier, are you one of those last-guy-picked-in-rec-league-game types that you speak of? Just checking No way - I was always picked ahead of the guy with the taped-together glasses.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2009 12:58:04 GMT -5
@frazier First of all, I may have been picked last, but my teams usually won. And triple-b was always picked first, so stow that garbage right now. Call statistics "geeky" if you must, but you're only showing your willful ignorance of something that explains and elucidates what happens on the court. This is tantamount to me saying I don't watch the games because the players move too fast and it gives me a headache, but I know who the best guys are because I check who scored the most points in the paper the next morning. If you're not doing both, you're only getting half the story. Furthermore, I'm not applying to replace the coach, but I'm not going to say that everything he does is beyond reproach. I think that he's an offensive genius who has learned to coach elite defensive basketball. In this one case, I think he might - not is, might - be putting too much emphasis on having players who smoothly run the offense on the court, and is thus losing out on the defensive upgrade that the numbers demonstrate we get when Sims is out there. Reasonable minds can disagree, but I'm seeing at least some support for this idea from a group of people who clearly spend a good portion of their time watching and thinking about basketball. Now I'm going to use some of your own words against you. I never suggested "replac[ing]" Jessie Sapp, just changing his role to one that can better help the team. Were you opposed to having PE Jr. become our sixth man? Isn't the concensus that his leadership, intensity, and experience was a great help to us coming off the bench? Jessie Sapp is a tested senior, no doubt. He's been tested and shown to be a slightly above-average major college basketball player. Henry Sims is untested. He may be a complete disaster. Or he may be an amazing talent. The only things I have to decide what I think is the truth are 1)the performance I've seen on the court in the games I've watched and 2)the statistical record of those performances. In this case, both suggest - to me - that, in many situations, our defense and rebounding would be improved and our offense would not suffer much if Sims played more. So I'm going to let the staff decide who plays, because that's their job. I'm going to keep doing my "job," so to speak, as a fan, which is to follow the team, learn as much as I can about it, and occasionally bloviate about it on some message board. (1) I can bloviate with the best of them. (2) You did, in fact, call for Sims to "replace" Sapp as a starter, which is obviously what I meant, semantics aside. (3)The statistical analysis is questionable at best, unless it takes into account the game situations for each point/rebound/block/assist/turnover (time of game, strength and stats of opposing players on floor at the time, differential in score, etc.). A reliance solely on limited statistical analysis in a vacuum is not mathematically acceptable. I have watched every minute of every Hoya game I could see for the last 29 years, and I trust this coach's evaluations and decisions during gametime. Henry looks like he will be a great Hoya when it is all done - but right now he is a skinny kid who will get time when they need his particular skills - and I do not feel that the starting line-up is the place for those skills yet.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 5, 2009 14:11:44 GMT -5
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Feb 5, 2009 14:40:25 GMT -5
A few counterpoints:
1. Our guards obviously can't defend other teams' guards, so what exactly do we lose by playing 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center on the defensive end instead of 3 guards?
2. If Sims is a project, then what are Nikita and Omar? Look at the numbers and just look at what they do on the court. I don't mean to rip on Nikita, but when does 5 fouls, 3 turnovers and 1-5 shooting from three-point land equate to a good game or improvement?
3. What does a coach's great success in introducing a new style of play to the Big East with two first round NBA picks have to do with a five-game losing streak to the likes of Seton Hall, Cincy and West Virginia? Nothing. Which is why it's fair to question his tactics this year.
There's still time to turn it around, but we might be kicking ourselves over this recent losing streak and whether lineup decisions early on could have been made to change it. The point of the "preseason" is to figure out who should play, and we are spending the Big East season doing it instead.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 5, 2009 14:41:33 GMT -5
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!" -Homer Simpson
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Feb 5, 2009 14:57:10 GMT -5
We need to improve at doing what we're doing with the current lineup as well. I think the offense "looks" better with Jessie running it cuz it runs much more slowly giving the younger guys, i.e. Sims and Nikita, more time to think and more time to do what they're supposed to do. If, however, everyone can step up the pace a notch and run the offense as efficiently at a quicker speed (Chris Wright's speed), then we'll have something. That, of course, will only come with experience and having the offensive sets become second nature to the younger guys.
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