|
Post by Hoya TMF on Jan 23, 2009 14:04:59 GMT -5
You asked: "Is it possible to recruit guys that can fit into a Princeton offense, but at the same time have some hustle and bustle, bang and the ability to rebound? " I answered. I think it is a weird question, though, only seriously posed if you're only considering a small subset of the last four and a half years. SF: I'd just like to point out that of the players you mentioned in your earlier post, only Jessie and Pat were recruited to play Georgetown's version of the Princeton offense,and I don't even really count Pat since he was a legacy. Roy and Jeff were definitely not recruited by III, and Jon was initially recruited to play at Princeton. Except for Jessie and DaJuan, every player recruited by III that would be a senior or junior on this team has transferred. Most of them transferred not because they weren't tough enough, but because they didn't have the skill set to thrive in our offense. We have several players now that are perfect for our offense, Austin, Greg, Chris and DaJuan, but there is a question as to whether they are tough enough. We have a couple of scrappy players in Omar and Julian, but the have really struggled to grasp the offense. I don't mean all this to say its impossible for us to win. Clearly we have won some big games in the last few years and with this year's team. However, this is III's first year coaching an entire team of players that he recruited. And it seems that most of them fit into one of two categories (1) highly skilled, but with questionable toughness or (2) scrappy, with questionable skills, especially for our offense. Not surprisingly, the guys most likely to fit into both the skilled and the scrappy categories are our upperclassmen. So maybe that means that with experience, our players will be toughened up, and will become more familiar with the offense and/or improve upon the skills necessary to succeed within it. However, with our young roster, this year may not be that year or at least January may not yet be the time when they all get it. I remain hopeful that each of these groups shores up their deficiencies, but last night and several of our other games this season evidenced that they and we are not quite there yet.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Jan 23, 2009 14:26:48 GMT -5
We aren't ever going to be Zo and Michael Graham and Perry McDonald...no. But this team can rebound, can play tougher. And since they have other skills, that should and will be enough to win games. It's a weakness -- the issue I have is the thought that it is a fatal weakness. These guys don't need to be great at those things, just better. My other issue was with the idea that you can't find guys who can play in the offense and be tough. I was watching winning teams from the last few years where we defended, rebounded, got loose balls and ran the offense. I must have missed how soft Jeff and Roy and Jon and Pat and Jessie were. Again, you guys just run with this. Where did I say you CAN'T find guys to hustle and run the princeton? I SAID we need some guys right now, and they need to be recruited. Where did I say JTIII needs to change everything? lol What I'm saying is, we don't have THAT this year. We don't have a Jeff Green. We don't have Jon Wallace. We don't have a Roy. We don't have a Pat. Heck, we don't have a Tyler Crawford who was a leader on this team in terms of toughness, yet rarely played. All of those guys had a particulary weakness(es) in their respective games. Yet all of those guys had some intangibles aside from their talents that was crucial to the rebirth of this program and winning basketball. Those guys showed that during their freshman years, even if it was in glimpses. Not to mention Pat and Jeff could be physical at times. Not to mention, Roy was a threat defensively in the paint. You can coach fundamentals and refine them, but you can't coach intangibles. You can't coach kids to a have skill-sets and personalities they don't have. You recruit kids who have them. Right now, we got some talented players on offense who can't rebound or provide an interior presence in the paint. that is the makings of a perimeter oriented and finesse teams. that is how we are currently constructed, personnel-wise those types only get so far. we need some hustle and bustle guys, even if they are role players to complitment and add much needed dimensions to this current group of players. I get what your saying, I really do, I just disagree with it. We are just as physically tough as we have been the last two seasons, at worst we are a little less phyiscally tough. The biggest difference, imo, is Roy Hibbert defensive presense, but that wasn't because Roy was a physical defender, he was just very tall. We are no where close to being as mentally tough, atleast not when we are down. That is the difference of this team and the past two season. Thats also why Notre Dame is Notre Dame, not because they aren't physically tough, but because mentally they are weak, thats why they can't win on the road. We didn't lose THIS game because we are a bad rebounding team, we lost because every single player on the roster played horribly. That has nothing to do with physical toughness it has everything to do with mental toughness. We didn't lose to Duke or Notre Dame because we weren't a physical team. We lost because we went through major periods of mental lapses. We weren't mentally tough the last 10 minutes of the first half against Duke, and thats why we lost. Maybe more physical players would help overcome our mental weaknesses in those games, but mental toughness would also overcome our lack of physical players as well. So in a way I think we were both right, we can't be both mentally and phyiscally weak and be a great team. We differ because I think even if we aren't the most physical team, if we are mentally tough we can do anything. The way I see it the mentally tougher team beats the physically tougher team 10 times out of 10.
|
|
lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
|
Post by lurkerhoya on Jan 23, 2009 15:11:05 GMT -5
1) Unverified, but I don't think guys transferred because they didn't fit with the team. deleted 2) JT3 essentially had to re-recruit that first class. True, they were committed here, but there's no guarantee they were coming. Roy and Jeff both could have opted out, and let's face it Roy was coming here no matter who the coach was.
It's interesting to me that both of the guys JT3 recruited that would be invaluable this year both transferred out: Macklin and the unmentioned Marc Egerson. Egerson the senior, on this team, sets my heart aflutter about what this team could be doing. Maybe he's not the player I make him out to be, but those are the types of players I think we're talking about who would make a difference.
|
|
|
Post by vamosalaplaya on Jan 23, 2009 15:48:02 GMT -5
Egerson had 12 boards against Rutgers this year and 14 against Seton Hall. Averaging over ten a game this year. 17 against Towson. Guy can board.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Jan 23, 2009 15:55:28 GMT -5
Egerson would be nice. So would Chris Braswell, the guy who was supposed to be the banger in this class (or another big guy that we could have gotten if Braswell hadn't been holding up the spot, like, say, Michael Dunigan?) sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=40999
|
|
richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by richfame on Jan 23, 2009 16:13:27 GMT -5
braskyii why dont you lay off. Calling people a troll is a bit much. You know the worst thing about this board is that you can never critice a hoya, JT3, or even the frigin bulldog. WAY although a bit harsh had some good points. This team SO FAR lacks desire and mental toughness. Thats why rebounding is such an issue. He have guys wi th height and incrediible playing abitlity. But when it comes down to rebound its baout heart and desire.
Should we recruit some muscle/bangers if wre going to p lay in the big east conference well yeah.. But i think thats what braswell was suppose to be. So i agree with WAY, but he has to remember JT3 should have had more big bodies.
All im saying is that im sick of the braskyiis, kchoyas and the carpes of the world that all the want to do is call you a troll or a morron for an opinions regarding this team that might be critical iin nature.. We all want to see the hoyas get tot eh Final four and beyond. So chill out...
|
|
jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,006
|
Post by jester on Jan 23, 2009 19:26:45 GMT -5
I think last night we didn't shoot well, but I was more upset by our execution. Northwestern, who has been competitive in the Big Ten their last several games (yeah, insert Big Ten sucks comment here) has been playing well together. They would kill to have the talent we have. Yet last night was a comedy of mental errors and complete lack of concentration. I think a down crowd and somewhat snowball effect could have contributed the collective psyche, but players like Wallace helped their team by playing to their strengths. We have great strengths on our team, and used together well that should be enough to win games against most competition. I'll have to live with getting outrebounded perhaps, but not with leaving a WV jumper open several times ina row on the same play, or overdribbling, or trying to force the break when it is not there or trying to thread a needle baseline pass. Those things should be correctable (although born of frustration), even on off shooting nights the basic IQ we recruit for deserve to be there.
|
|
alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
|
Post by alleninxis on Jan 23, 2009 20:16:16 GMT -5
Seriously, when did Vern turn into a banger???
Sure he was athletic, but wasn't adding toughness
|
|
jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
|
Post by jgalt on Jan 23, 2009 22:03:45 GMT -5
braskyii why dont you lay off. Calling people a troll is a bit much. You know the worst thing about this board is that you can never critice a hoya, JT3, or even the frigin bulldog. WAY although a bit harsh had some good points. This team SO FAR lacks desire and mental toughness. Thats why rebounding is such an issue. He have guys wi th height and incrediible playing abitlity. But when it comes down to rebound its baout heart and desire. ... All im saying is that im sick of the braskyiis, kchoyas and the carpes of the world that all the want to do is call you a troll or a morron for an opinions regarding this team that might be critical iin nature.. We all want to see the hoyas get tot eh Final four and beyond. So chill out... No, braskii is right. After every bad loss there are a bajillion pointless threads about how awful some part of the team is or how some player needs to step up or how the students suck or how we need an on campus arena or how we miss vernon macklin. I dont know "the way" im sure he is a perfectly nice person, but what are the last three games he has commented on? Yesterdays game, the davidson game, and the villinova loss in 07; only probably the three worst losses of the past three seasons. That is strange, never is there any praise, only criticism. And "the way" is not the only poster who has this pattern, it seems that after every loss there are at least ten posters who have been members for five years and are probably perfectly nice people, except they start their posts by saying "i dont post that often but..." and then offer some outrageous claim that this team will never win anything. It is really tiresome to have to deal with all this crap on the board after every loss. It is one thing to get up set and have constructive criticism it is another to melt down and say that the team is at best an NIT team ( If we make it to the NCAA tournament, that will be an accomplishment and JT3's finest coaching job yet. ).
|
|
|
Post by hoyafrigginsaxa on Jan 24, 2009 1:25:29 GMT -5
Edited. Keep it clean.-Admin
|
|
|
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 24, 2009 5:39:41 GMT -5
thats disgusting
|
|
|
Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 24, 2009 5:40:15 GMT -5
unless you're Beyonce or Megan Good
|
|
richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by richfame on Jan 24, 2009 21:36:44 GMT -5
jgalt- i agree with your last point grat point, i had no idea about that
|
|