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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 17, 2009 15:48:59 GMT -5
...don't blame the refs.
I don't know if Duke is the better team if Monroe plays foul free but they were the better team today and it had nothing to do with the officiating.
Monroe clearly charged on those 2 plays, simple as that. In addition I actually thought for once in Cameron we got some calls that could have gone either way.
You miss 11 shots to end a half, it's going to be an uphill climb the rest of the day.
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Jan 17, 2009 15:51:43 GMT -5
Outshoot a team 52-48, percentage-wse.
Match the 11th best rebounding team in the country.
Lose 8 FG Attempts due to calls.
I'll take the team that shot close to 65% when their best player wasn't forced off the court due to 3 offensive fouls and a technical while on the bench.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Post by jgalt on Jan 17, 2009 15:52:02 GMT -5
True, bad calls were not the problem today (i dont agree with one of the charge calls, but that didnt lose this game).
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
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Post by Locker on Jan 17, 2009 15:53:06 GMT -5
I think you mean "sac up."
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 17, 2009 15:54:03 GMT -5
I think I do to - After several Corona's I am doing the best I can.
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
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Post by Locker on Jan 17, 2009 15:54:51 GMT -5
And yes, please everyone be a big man and pretend the reffing didn't matter.
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
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Post by AltoSaxa on Jan 17, 2009 15:55:57 GMT -5
Calls affect an individual and teams psyche and style of play
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Jan 17, 2009 15:57:03 GMT -5
The "moving screen" and technical on Monroe were both absurd and took him out of the game. You can feel free to look through my history, I don't blame the refs for losses. But this one was absolutely ridiculous.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 17, 2009 15:57:14 GMT -5
I disagree, I usually never look at the refs, but the fact is when Monroe was on the court the Hoyas were the better team. The refs took Monroe off the court so to say they were not a factor is not correct. The T on the bench is shameful, pay attention to the game, how does he know what player is saying anything from the bench?
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 17, 2009 15:58:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I forgot about the screen, what a joke. You could almost see the ref thinking "if he sets that screen its a foul."
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 17, 2009 16:01:40 GMT -5
I will agree with the screen call, not a good call.
However the refs didn't force 15 TO's, make us shoot 33% from 3pt land, and 55% from the line. We actually went to the line 5 more times and 4 of the FT's from Duke were intentional one's closing the game.
I am not saying a call can't change momentum but our FT shooting killed any rally as much as the refs did.
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Jan 17, 2009 16:04:36 GMT -5
This game was lost on 2 runs by Duke.
First run came after the bogus 3rd foul. Monroe comes out, refs have effectively said to us don't go within 15 feet of the basket, shoot jumpers. So we did. Did missing 11 in a row hurt? Yeah. But we didn't put ourselves in that situation.
Do I really need to say more about the second run, which started after we got the game down to 4 right after break, only to have it ended by a technical called on Greg on the bench.
Buff has a point about needing to overcome adversity. I guess I just feel that everytime we did, which was several times when we clawed back into this game, Cahill & Burr were right there to make sure that any move by us was thwarted.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Post by jgalt on Jan 17, 2009 16:05:47 GMT -5
the calls on monroe in the first half killed momentum, if he is out there for the end of the first duke probably doesnt have a run like they did- this is true there is not debating it. When you combine that with the poor FT shooting and the poor 3fg% there you have it, but it is important to note that prior to Monroe going to the bench the 3fg% was 37% and the 2fg% was shockingly high but there were just too few attempts.
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
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Post by Locker on Jan 17, 2009 16:06:45 GMT -5
Good post, lurker. I don't know why I'm supposed to be upset with the team. I thought we played well.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Jan 17, 2009 16:08:33 GMT -5
Ok this is a ridiculous thread, reffing may not be the only reason we lost, as we still had a real good chance despite it, but it was certainly a factor. We adjusted well in the second half, but the reffing completely changed the way he played. Anytime we would make any contact with a Duke player downlow we ran a huge risk at getting a offensive foul called on us, that completely changes our offense. You could see it when we tried to attack the basket in the first half, we couldn't go up strong because that makes it so much easier for them to draw a charge, we had to look around for someone to pass to when we would go down low. A great exaple of the poor officiating is the foul on Sims right before Monroe got the tech from the bench( which I have NEVER seen before, its usally just a technichel on the bench itself, not one player), Singler comes down shoves Sims out of the way for the rebound, then their arms get hooked and the foul is called on Sims. Yes Sims may have fouled him, BUT if you don't call the obvious push in the back first, than its simply just not fair.
I think the biggest mistake Thompson made was to not get thrown out of this game.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Jan 17, 2009 16:09:28 GMT -5
the calls on monroe in the first half killed momentum, if he is out there for the end of the first duke probably doesnt have a run like they did- this is true there is not debating it. When you combine that with the poor FT shooting and the poor 3fg% there you have it, but it is important to note that prior to Monroe going to the bench the 3fg% was 37% and the 2fg% was shockingly high but there were just too few attempts. Exactly.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Jan 17, 2009 16:09:36 GMT -5
As others have said, it's not even worth getting into the reffing, since you know some call will go Duke's way at Cameron. But I also think it is pretty naive to say that the refs had no influence on the game. It really doesn't matter that the refs started calling some fouls on Duke, when the game is altered because the best player on the court is not playing aggressivley or not playing at all. Giving Duke that advantage at home makes them almost unbeatable, and make-up calls are meaningless. Having said that, if the Hoyas played better (free throws, putting a body on Henderson, taking better care of the ball), they could have still won that game. So, it's a loss and a learning experience. Forget about the refs.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,331
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Post by tashoya on Jan 17, 2009 16:10:50 GMT -5
We're better than Duke. All who watched that game know this fact. When we play poorly like we did today with regard to 3 point defenses, poor defensive switches, less than crisp passing, poor 3 point shooting, poor free throw shooting and being down a "star" in our lineup for a good part of the game, we should still have lost that game by maybe 2 to 4 points. Not 9. Improve in any of those areas that this team is fully capable of doing, we win in Cameron without a sweat. Even the refs wouldn't have been able to change it. Hell... even if Austin played the first half, that would have been enough of a difference. It seemed like he figured out in the 2nd that a game was going on. Oh... and Sapp was abyssmal.
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russodj
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by russodj on Jan 17, 2009 16:11:49 GMT -5
I think this game will help the team in the long run more so than any game so far this season. Playing in arguably the toughest place to play in America, with your best player in foul trouble and your starting guards getting no run and still hanging with a very good Duke team. I think the performances from Vaughn, Clark, Wattad, and even Austin and Dajaun will really help the team over the rest of the Big East season. Need Sapp and Wright to step up on both O and D. Greg will be fine.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Jan 17, 2009 16:13:05 GMT -5
Oh... and Henderson is good. Singler is decent. The rest of Duke? Hmmm... not so much.
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