blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 30, 2008 14:25:04 GMT -5
Over the Summer we were all taken by surprise with the transfers of Rivers and Macklin. While most of us remained calm...there was cause for legitimate concern over our team's depth (or lack thereof).
On the flip side, I am sure that I'm not the only one out there who last year found myself yelling at JT3 through my television set to pull Macklin and/or Rivers from the game in favor of one of our starters. When having one or both of those guys in the game ... it felt like we were playing 3 or 4 against 5 on offense. We had so few options with those guys in and so few guys who could create their own shot.
Today, while our achillies now may be our lack of depth... by having to rely on all our starters to play 30 plus minutes.... we've got a great team out there at all times. I love it. I almost never take issue with the line up we have in...everyone is a weapon on offense, everyone can hit the open shot, everyone can hit a freethow... gone are the days where defenses would sit back, clog up the middle, hack a mack and challenge us to hit a shot. With a starting five like ours... no serious foul trouble = wins.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 30, 2008 14:45:13 GMT -5
I agree with you, Blue.
I feel like we're best friends now, lol. I would still like to have those two, especially Mack right now. But both of them wanted to start, and I think what happened is that III sat both of them down in the postseason exit meetings and was very frank with them and told them they wouldn't be starting on this team. Thusly, they did what they thought was best for them and transferred. I guess it all works out in the end
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 30, 2008 15:39:41 GMT -5
There have been many teams over the years that have relied on 6-7 guys and gone far. III is certainly smart enough to use the bench judiciously when possible and get the starters enough rest. The size of the bench will not be a concern, although foul trouble could be with the bigs.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Dec 30, 2008 15:54:27 GMT -5
Let's not get carried away here. The addition of Macklin and Rivers would have made this a better team. Granted they are not here so the Hoyas will have to do with out them; but both of those players would thrive in GUs more open offensive system. Macklin was JTs first big recruit and signaled the direction he wanted to take the program. As it turned out, GU did not have the athletes to complement Macklin’s abilities nor did Macklin have the skill set to play in a half court game. Rivers was the big guard that all coaches covet. With Wright’s ability to push the ball, penetrate and dish, Macklin would have flourished with finishes at the rim.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 30, 2008 16:13:16 GMT -5
Man, what a dum dum Vern was transferring!!! He'd be first off the bench, seeing 20 minutes spelling the 4/5 and would be exactly the piece we would need as a rebounder, runner, jumper...such a bad decision on his part...really makes me feel bad for him - hope things work out at Florida.
Baby Doc, however, I don't miss him at all. Clark is a better player than Rivers right now and he was smart to transfer b/c I don't see anything opening up for him in the next year or so if we keep all our backcourt. He was an offensive liability and his defense was overrated b/c he was so bad offensively. Transferring to Indiana probably was not the right decision either b/c i bet they recruit over him once crean gets things going, but oh well...don't miss rivers at all, but Macklin! dammit Vern! you coulda been a contendah!
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Post by DownTownJoeyBrown on Dec 30, 2008 16:17:13 GMT -5
So true. Macklin could have been much better this year with our current ability to push the tempo. I wonder if either regrets their decision to transfer. I guess playing 20 minutes a game on a final four caliber team wasn't enough. I'm not saying that sarcastically either. Whether justifiable or not, these kids have expectations of playing at the next level and its hard to make it to the NBA as the 6th man of college team, no matter how good that team is. Hopefully Pat will be an exception.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 30, 2008 16:19:20 GMT -5
and Marvin Williams.
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Post by DownTownJoeyBrown on Dec 30, 2008 16:21:26 GMT -5
UNC players don't count. How they manage to recruit 5 star players to warm their bench is beyond me.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 30, 2008 16:25:12 GMT -5
I'd like to have Rivers on the team for some depth. His addition would surely make the team a bit better. And.....that is all I have to say about that.
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Post by DownTownJoeyBrown on Dec 30, 2008 16:32:51 GMT -5
While I would love to have both Rivers and Macklin on this team and do think we would be better with them, I do agree with you blue/grey. It's really nice to see lineups on the court that aren't watered down with mistake ridden, no offense, bad FT's shooting, less talented players. I think it might come back to bite us at some point though. I keep thinking we are 1 player away from competing for a national title. Add a banger like Jeff Adrian and I think this team is damn near unstoppable. I don' think Macklin was that banger we need but he sure would have helped.
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Dec 30, 2008 16:44:32 GMT -5
A blessing in disguise will be if we make it to the last week of January with less than 6 losses.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 30, 2008 16:46:06 GMT -5
One small point if I may. Does anyone know our current team foul shooting percent? And does anyone happen to know our foul team shooting percent in the big east and where we stand? If its not first, I'm sure it is pretty up there. I predicted altho sad to see rivers and macklin go, that we would win the Big east foul shooting per cent championship. We will see. We could have used their depth and it would have made us even more awesome, but they decided to leave. I hope for their sake we dont win the national championship and they would not be there. Well , only kidding on that one . Go hoyas. Beat Pitt. THEY are a good TEAM.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 30, 2008 16:47:58 GMT -5
I agree that macklin would be better suited on this year's team than last. And if I had to choose between Vaughn and Mack...i'd probably go with mack. at the same time...let's not glorify the guy. other than dunking and his games against the Johnies and WV, he missed more bunnies than anyone, had more turnovers for minutes played than anyone, shot 27 percent from the line and half the time looked lost out there. there may be a game or two where we "could have used macklin"... but so far we are doing just fine.
as far as rivers goes...I totally concur with the sentiments of the board. good kid, solid defender, but doesn't add anything that to the team that we don't already have. with clark, I never have to worry about him airballing two eight foot shots in a single possession as rivers did against memphis. in any case, i'm glad wright isn't having to share time with any of these guys. let our starts play 32 to 35 minutes a game and I am fine with that.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 30, 2008 17:21:07 GMT -5
Certainly nice to have talent at every position and threats to score/create opportunities to boot. Not that last year's lineup was any slouch.
These are always intriguing threads--curious how much the sentiment depends on our most recent result. Of course we're lauding the multi-talented starting lineup and somewhat dismissive of the "depth" (at least in number of bodies) issue after a well-executed win that featured exceptional personnel management wrt Monroe's third foul. Now...let's say on Saturday Monroe picks up two quick personals, or takes a fourth foul with 10 minutes to go. We're now forced to lean on Vaughn for extended minutes and no offense-defense substitution is possible. Do we feel the same way then about not at the very least having Vern's body to throw out there?
Last season at full strength, the bench went roughly Ewing-Wright in the 6-7 hole, Rivers-Macklin at 8-9 and Crawford at 10.
Right now we're basically 8 deep with Clark-Wattad-Vaughn. If you really want to get technical...if we DID go 9 deep regularly it'd be Sims. Sooooo...the question is given the total package:
Is Vaughn/Sims greater than or equal to Rivers/Macklin?
Fun for debate I guess, but a moot point since we seem to have settled into an eight man rotation that we'll manage when needed. So far it's worked out okay...we'll see what happens when the system is tested.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Dec 30, 2008 17:29:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but it'd sure be nice to have another 2/3 and 5 for depth. I think HS will come around, but he ain't ready right now.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 30, 2008 17:48:42 GMT -5
I guess the only objection for not having Vern out there last night is his FT shooting. Uconn could have fouled VM during the second half, and I am pretty sure that our FT record would have been worse than last night.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 30, 2008 17:50:33 GMT -5
Lic, we should be first at 85.7% in the BE. Uconn, of course, is last, since we were the only two teams that have played a BE game as of last night.
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Dec 30, 2008 18:05:08 GMT -5
I can't agree that the absence of Macklin (especially) and Rivers (less so) is a blessing of any kind. Foul trouble will happen, minor injuries will probably happen and major injuries may happen. And what will certainly happen is 2 games in 3 days in the regular season and NCAA tournament and consecutive games in the BET. And having an athletic big man familiar with the system and more comfortable at this year's faster tempo would hurt us how in those scenarios, exactly?
I think with some additional - and experienced - depth, there would be no limit to what this team could do. I'm not sitting around mourning the loss of Rivers and Ticket, but I actually had the exact opposite thought as this thread last night - "Wow, if we had kept those extra bodies at the 4/5 and as a utility guard, we really wouldn't have any concerns at all this season."
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 30, 2008 18:07:02 GMT -5
Lic, we should be first at 85.7% in the BE. Uconn, of course, is last, since we were the only two teams that have played a BE game as of last night. Villanova is shooting 76.4% from the line. We are shooting 75.3%. That's obviously across all games.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Dec 30, 2008 18:15:43 GMT -5
macklin could really help this team...not sure about rivers since id rather have clark get those minutes
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