SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 14, 2009 13:06:36 GMT -5
Saxa, I completely agree that mathematically 3's are better than almost 3's. However, I would like to see our coaches and players go by how they feel more than just mathematics. For example, if Chris is bricking every single 3 he takes, I'd like to see an emphasis put on the free throw line jumper(which granted we probably can't hit since we can't hit free throws but hey). It's just a matter of balancing how you feel with straight logic. JK.... it appears to me there are posters on this board who are unable to distinguish the difference between the shot "just inside the 3 pt. line" and the "mid-range" game. In addition, there are other posters who are unable to see that merely acknowledging a mathematical fact does not imply slavish devotion to it under any and all circumstances and to the exclusion of all other factors. Applying the logic of shooting percentages to developing an offensive strategy and system for one's team, is absolutely the correct thing to do. But that is just one of many factors that need to be taken into account. And there are percentages for all kinds of shots. Every shot. And there are percentages for varying your shots so the defense doesn't know what's coming. As for applying them within an individual game, one also needs to determine the expected defense and how those shots are derived... e.g. what kinds of plays/passing lead to the "wide open three, in rhythm". This is the inside out game that JT3... and virtually every other coach... talks about. Get the ball inside... to your big man, or via a driving guard, or whatever...then when the defense collapses on the man with the ball, pass it back out---sharply -- to an open Three shooter. He has a much better chance to convert. If the defenders are out at the Three point line to stop that part of your game, then something else is open... driving and passing lanes, room to operate inside. There are a million variables and options... and THAT is what the Princeton is all about. Options. Working the ball around, making the defense react, seeing what they go for and take advantage of it. And sharp cutting without the ball. Crisp passes. Being smart about how you play team ball. The three point shot is only one factor. AND -- as you correctly point out -- if the Three isn't dropping falling, go to something else. Work the ball inside. Simply acknowledging the reality of shooting percentages and the expected value of each shot and how that changes at the three point line is by no means an absolute command that must be followed at all times and under all circumstances. But I think you know that already JK.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 14, 2009 13:31:43 GMT -5
It's dead horse beating time for me.
When your starting 4 takes 49% of his shots from 3 like Dajuan the last two years, you don't have a mid-range game.
When your starting 4 takes 26% of his shots from 3 like Jeff Green in 2007 and 2008, hey look, mid-range game!
The staff isn't discouraging anyone. We just don't have players who can do this right now. If you had to choose our best mid-range threats in the last 4 years, I'd say Green and Cook are #1 and #2 and nobody else is even on the list including Freeman.
So we need to get mid-range PLAYERS not a mid-range mindset. It's there for the taking of the guys can do it.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,294
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Post by royski on Mar 14, 2009 13:56:19 GMT -5
Austin Freeman was considered to have the best midrange game in his entire class. I just can't believe that he was able to hit that shot more consistently than anyone in the country in high school, and suddenly doesn't even consider it a part of his offensive skill set unless he'd been coached to think that.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 14, 2009 14:02:20 GMT -5
Austin Freeman was considered to have the best midrange game in his entire class. I just can't believe that he was able to hit that shot more consistently than anyone in the country in high school, and suddenly doesn't even consider it a part of his offensive skill set unless he'd been coached to think that. I honestly think its Austin's love of Snickers that is killing his mid-range game. He hasn't elevated and knocked it down this year even like he did last year. When he shoots that shot, he's fading, falling, leaning, just completely off.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,294
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Post by royski on Mar 14, 2009 15:25:34 GMT -5
Austin Freeman was considered to have the best midrange game in his entire class. I just can't believe that he was able to hit that shot more consistently than anyone in the country in high school, and suddenly doesn't even consider it a part of his offensive skill set unless he'd been coached to think that. I honestly think its Austin's love of Snickers that is killing his mid-range game. He hasn't elevated and knocked it down this year even like he did last year. When he shoots that shot, he's fading, falling, leaning, just completely off. That's a good point, and is certainly possible. If it's true, I really hope Austin hits the weight room and diets seriously over the offseason. We need a deadly AF-1 to reach our potential next year.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 15, 2009 10:41:10 GMT -5
Graeagle, or anyone who would know, what is the time line for Vee or Latavious to commit? Bump.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Mar 15, 2009 13:08:01 GMT -5
Austin Freeman was considered to have the best midrange game in his entire class. I just can't believe that he was able to hit that shot more consistently than anyone in the country in high school, and suddenly doesn't even consider it a part of his offensive skill set unless he'd been coached to think that. I honestly think its Austin's love of Snickers that is killing his mid-range game. He hasn't elevated and knocked it down this year even like he did last year. When he shoots that shot, he's fading, falling, leaning, just completely off. Damn you Patrick Chewing! You corrupted us!
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Mar 15, 2009 16:09:50 GMT -5
They didn't actively discourage Jon Wallace or Jeff Green from taking mid-range jumpers and I am sure they do not discourage Freeman or Summers from taking them when they are open. But a contested 18-footer is the worst possible shot to take.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Post by jgalt on Mar 15, 2009 19:30:37 GMT -5
They didn't actively discourage Jon Wallace or Jeff Green from taking mid-range jumpers and I am sure they do not discourage Freeman or Summers from taking them when they are open. But a contested 18-footer is the worst possible shot to take. Totally agree on both points. But i think what is more of a concern is the lack of 8 to 12 to 15 foot jumpers this year. Those kind of shots can help to spread a defense, because they have to concentrate on the mid range as well as the low post and the three point line. There were a few stretches this year where Dajuan started making a few 12-15 foot base line jumpers and this opened up the floor for him on the next few possessions.
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Post by hoyalawyer on Mar 16, 2009 0:28:06 GMT -5
didn't say it was forbidden, just frowned upon. They want higher percentage shots, which I agree with. Unfortunately this team didn't respond well to "wiggle room" within the offense, so the reprecussions for taking the "less advised" shot were harsher than would be with guys who took GOOD midrange shots (i.e. Jon Jeff). Will this "rule" (and I say that meaning more of practice and not set-in-stone rule) apply as the players get more comfortable with the offense? doubt it. But the point is with THE TEAM WE HAD THIS YEAR, the midrange shot was discouraged probably in large part due to the TYPE of mid-range shot that was being taken by guys on the team. Sorry for the confusion.
-Lawyer
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Post by hoyalawyer on Mar 16, 2009 0:30:15 GMT -5
This is not to say that I agree with it. I strongly disagree. The system is not flawed. Nor are the personnel. However if hte personnel don't adhere to the system somethings gotta give. (change the players or change the system or a little of both). Not total overhaul, but more tweaking in the offseason
-Lawyer
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,177
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Post by idhoya on Mar 17, 2009 14:53:50 GMT -5
I would think UVa would have to drop off now. Like that III is there. He's the Hoyas for the taking, imo of course.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 17, 2009 15:32:28 GMT -5
I would think UVa would have to drop off now. Like that III is there. He's the Hoyas for the taking, imo of course. Unless UVA makes a HC announcement really soon, I would agree with you ID. And I love the fact that JT3 is out on the road, letting these kids know he wants them. Let's hope he can bring in a couple of guys who can contribute right away.
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Post by tpk3 on Mar 19, 2009 18:08:58 GMT -5
billy G/kentucky also in the house watching Vee tonight. i think RDF also said JT3 will be there as well. Kentucky just picked up a JUCO guard....and i still think they wanted Vee to prep.
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CaliHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by CaliHoya on Mar 19, 2009 22:33:32 GMT -5
Man, following recruiting really is the elixir I need to get over this season. Check out this article about Vee's great performance in the Sweet 16. He scored the last nine points in regulation to bring LexCatholic into OT. They ended up winning and Vee had 28 points, 12 rebounds and 5 assists. I take it that this was against a quality team, but maybe someone else can attest? www.kentucky.com/232/story/732144.htmlIt's great that JT3 was in the house - I really hope we get Vee. He sounds like a winner.
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Post by krukster201 on Mar 20, 2009 1:39:42 GMT -5
Sanford is wide open.
Sanford scored 28 points, grabbed 13 rebounds and dished out five assists in Lexington Catholic's opening round game against Bowling Green.
"Right now I'm getting recruited by Georgetown University, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Marquette, Kansas State, Baylor, UNC-Charlotte, Wyoming, Oklahoma State, St. Louis, Bradley, Virginia and Virginia Commonwealth," Sanford said. "I'm also on Kentucky's radar."
Sanford has four official visits left. Right now he's wide open.
"Right now I'm open," Sanford said. "I have to take some visits. I have four more left, so right now I don't have a front runner."
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 20, 2009 8:56:37 GMT -5
although it is good that subconsciously he listed us first...
(hey I need SOME optimism on this board!)
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Post by HeartAttackHoya on Mar 20, 2009 9:16:48 GMT -5
i'm assuming if the 'Cats come his way he'll jump ship and sign with UK. Thank God Kentucky has a moran as a coach!
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Post by tpk3 on Mar 20, 2009 9:38:41 GMT -5
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HoyaSox04
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Founding member of the ROCK-tavius Spann Fan Club.
Posts: 726
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Mar 20, 2009 9:48:10 GMT -5
Also, the big rumor going around the Kentucky alums is that Gillespie is a goner once they are eliminated from the NIT. The personality clashes are just getting too big, and apparently the team has threatened a walk-out: score.leoweekly.com/2009/03/17/buh-bye-billy-clyde/I think the situation is so much in flux that they might not be players for Vee, or that he'd want to avoid it at all costs.
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