Live At-The-Game Recap

[Deleted]

You know it was a bad evening when the highlight of the night was a Yankee fan winning the halftime game.

I was blessed to sit through the first three and a half years of the Esh Saga, and I can safely say I NEVER saw a half of basketball that bad EVER. EVER! Nobody looked good, horrible DUMB mistakes we haven't been making... and somehow we stayed in it... only because BC isn't as good as people are making them out to be. Some player observations:

Jeff Green: looked awful. Worst game as a Hoya, no two ways about it. He looked lost, confused... you pick the adjective. Had no idea what to do with the BC defense, got called for a few travels, a five-second closely-guarded call (or two?) , not to mention at least one travel. Picked it up a LITTLE in the second half, had some good Princeton-style passes, but all-in-all did not play well at all.

BB: good all-around game. Played good D (on the 7-foot Dorenkamp at times!), had some strong drives, some good shooting... like night-and-day compared to his freshman year (my senior year).

Hibbert: my buddy said it best - "This guy makes Jameel Watkins look like Shaq." Has played well of late, but regressed to his Kenner-like, deer-in-the-headlights style of play. Inexcuseable a guy that size was getting pushed around by the likes of Dorenkamp. Smith I could understand, he's a tank. But Roy just isn't strong enough to play any kind of good low-post defender.

Wallace: is he still on the team?

Cook: after the opening three, pretty much disappeared.

Amadou Kilkenny-"Don't Call Me Ya-Ya" Diaw: I think he averaged a rebound a minute. For a guy who never plays, solid game on the glass. Deserved the extended run he got.

HOYA PLAYER OF THE GAME:
Tyler Crawford. Hands down. Missed a few key shots down the stretch that would have made it a one possession game, but for a guy who's played two seconds all season, he showed a lot. Strong takes, a decent shot, solid defense. The next Nat Burton?

As for the "#8" team in the country, they are this year's St. Joes. That's how meaningless their undefeated record is to me. Living in Boston, I've gotten to see them about 5 or 6 times, this being the third time live. And every game I say the same thing: if Craig Smith ever goes down, this team is done. He's a beast. Dudley is continually overrated in my opinion, and nobody else does anything. That Williams kid - the freshman - is just a good athlete. Not much of a basketball player (all shot blocking, not much D, even less O).

Worst Chant of the Night: BC students with "Georgetown Foot-ball...clap, clap, clap-clap-clap"... most GU students don't even know we have a football team! Way to "hit us where it hurts," BC faithful.

Best Chant of the Night: "BCS! BCS! BCS!" by a group of us Hoyas after the game in the parking lot in response to more "Georgetown Football" chants. Literally shut them up... zero comeback. My buddy is brilliant.

I'm not sure what else to say. Per capita, the 300 or so Hoya fans were louder than the rest of the crowd, who only got excited in like 4 or 5 spots all game. Everytime we made a run, the Hoya faithful were REALLY loud, even with most of us shoved up in a corner. Good showing by the fans, but that's where it ends.

We really need to rebound from this. Bad, bad, BAD loss.

[BurleithBeast]

BuffaloHoya said:

Per capita, the 300 or so Hoya fans were louder than the rest of the crowd, who only got excited in like 4 or 5 spots all game. Everytime we made a run, the Hoya faithful were REALLY loud, even with most of us shoved up in a corner. Good showing by the fans, but that's where it ends.

It's great to hear there was a decent showing at Conte. Hopefully we show up well on the road form now on--especially Rutgers and Johnnies. I'm already trying like hell to find a floor to crash on for the BE Tourney.

[Joe Hoya]

Certainly sounded like the ugliest game in my time here.

To add insult to injury, I fired up NCAA Football 2005 on the XBox after the game. When you turn it on it cycles through random fight songs. The first one, of course, was "For Boston", the fight song of Boston College (which I only recognized because my sister is in their pep band). That hurt.

[TC]

My biggest question from the game : Why do you give a cordless drill as a prize for a 12 year old kid?

Here was my take:
Diaw: He might have averaged a rebound a minute, but he was a complete liability otherwise.

Crawford : Definitely player of the game.

Hibbert : What can you do as a big man sitting out at the three point line if you're being closely guarded and no one can get free? Hibbert wasn't about to dribble and he was left helpless out top because no one could get open or help him out.

Cook : Didn't make his patented garbage time threes. Couple of nice drives though, and when he stopped penetrating was when BC pulled away.

Bowman : I think he's improved even more as a shooter. I was pretty impressed with his range.

Not a lot of great refereeing in this one. BC got a couple of gift possesions by timeouts - one where it should have been a jump ball and they clearly didn't have control. On the other end, Hibbert basically punched Dornekamp and nothing was called - and the number of uncalled travel violations was pretty astounding.

[Nevada Hoya]

The best thing I can say after this one is thanks for the Hoya fans for maintaining a great presence at Conte.

[DanMcQ]

Nevada said:

The best thing I can say after this one is thanks for the Hoya fans for maintaining a great presence at Conte.

Not difficult - the Conte fans are always as lackadaisical as the Hoyas' first half offense was tonight.

[ShimmyJr]

buffalo,

i appreciate your insights, but i find your analysis a bit quizzical...for one, st. joe's was one jameer nelson jumper away from being a final four team...so if BC found itself in the same position, I think BC faithful would be downright ecstatic...don't sell st joes short - they had an unbelievable year last year...

secondly, i think this team is quite good...with smith and dudley, they have two legit crunch-time performers who will always show up - plus they are disciplined and well-coached - they shut down JTIII and the squad tonight - kudos to Al Skinner and his staff....

[Deleted]

Shimmy,

I'm not trashing St. Joes or BC... they were/are both very good teams. Maybe I wasn't as exact as I should have been. What I was trying to get across was that I think they are a two-man team who, when those two leave, will be back to a sort of also-ran, middle of the pack role. Has anyone heard a peep from St. Joes since they lost in the tourney? I haven't. And I think this BC team is the same way (and mostly Smith... I've been to 4 BC games this year and am STILL unimpressed with Dudley). Once Smith goes pro, there is NOBODY to step in. That Williams kid - their freshman - is hardly a basketball player at this stage in his career. VERY athletic and thus a good shot blocker/defender... but I saw him touch the ball maybe once or twice on the offensive end (of course I'd KILL to have that kind of depth and athleticism right now for the Hoyas... but he's hardly a go-to guy for the forseeable future). Again, I think St. Joes was - and BC is - a very good team. And they may even go as far as St. Joes did. But without Smith getting more help (outside of Dudley... sort of like Nelson-West?), I see no reason to pick this team to go very far in the tourney. One or two wins is great, yes. But for all the hype this undefeated team is getting, that isn't enough (I may be skewed a little too, living in Boston and having to put up with this crap).

Also, shut down the Hoyas? I think 4 missed layups and 3 or 4 missed WIDE OPEN 3's (not to mention a plethora of top-of-the-key travelling calls and a few 5-second calls) sort of did the Hoyas in... not any sort of BC shutdown defense. I agree with a previous poster: there's NO REASON Hibbert should be handling the ball that far away from the hoop. He's just not a good ball handler. And for some reason, Jeff Green was garbage last night. The kid looked worn down, tired, you name it. Not the awesome effort we're used to seeing, but that's going to happen when you play a thousand minutes a game.

[DanMcQ]

BuffaloHoya said:

Shimmy,

I've been to 4 BC games this year and am STILL unimpressed with Dudley). Once Smith goes pro, there is NOBODY to step in. That Williams kid - their freshman - is hardly a basketball player at this stage in his career. VERY athletic and thus a good shot blocker/defender... but I saw him touch the ball maybe once or twice on the offensive end (of course I'd KILL to have that kind of depth and athleticism right now for the Hoyas... but he's hardly a go-to guy for the forseeable future). Again, I think St. Joes was - and BC is - a very good team. And they may even go as far as St. Joes did. But without Smith getting more help (outside of Dudley... sort of like Nelson-West?), I see no reason to pick this team to go very far in the tourney. One or two wins is great, yes. But for all the hype this undefeated team is getting, that isn't enough (I may be skewed a little too, living in Boston and having to put up with this crap).

Dudley hasn't had his best games at home, although the one before this was very good - he basically carried the team offensively.

I wouldn't rule out continued success at BenedictArnold College but I base that solely on Al Skinner's presence. I suspect they will settle into the middle tier of the ACC. Their football team, however, will never see the light of day in that conference with Miami and VT present.

[SFHoya99]

BuffaloHoya said:

Shimmy,

I'm not trashing St. Joes or BC... they were/are both very good teams. Maybe I wasn't as exact as I should have been. What I was trying to get across was that I think they are a two-man team who, when those two leave, will be back to a sort of also-ran, middle of the pack role. Has anyone heard a peep from St. Joes since they lost in the tourney? I haven't. And I think this BC team is the same way (and mostly Smith... I've been to 4 BC games this year and am STILL unimpressed with Dudley). Once Smith goes pro, there is NOBODY to step in. That Williams kid - their freshman - is hardly a basketball player at this stage in his career. VERY athletic and thus a good shot blocker/defender... but I saw him touch the ball maybe once or twice on the offensive end (of course I'd KILL to have that kind of depth and athleticism right now for the Hoyas... but he's hardly a go-to guy for the forseeable future). Again, I think St. Joes was - and BC is - a very good team. And they may even go as far as St. Joes did. But without Smith getting more help (outside of Dudley... sort of like Nelson-West?), I see no reason to pick this team to go very far in the tourney. One or two wins is great, yes. But for all the hype this undefeated team is getting, that isn't enough (I may be skewed a little too, living in Boston and having to put up with this crap).

Also, shut down the Hoyas? I think 4 missed layups and 3 or 4 missed WIDE OPEN 3's (not to mention a plethora of top-of-the-key travelling calls and a few 5-second calls) sort of did the Hoyas in... not any sort of BC shutdown defense. I agree with a previous poster: there's NO REASON Hibbert should be handling the ball that far away from the hoop. He's just not a good ball handler. And for some reason, Jeff Green was garbage last night. The kid looked worn down, tired, you name it. Not the awesome effort we're used to seeing, but that's going to happen when you play a thousand minutes a game.

The turnover we had were a function (somewhat) of their defense. So far, all year, defenses against the Hoyas have packed it in to avoid the backdoors and given us a lot of open looks. BC pressured us, forcing us to make good passes around the perimeter. They pressured off the ball. Hibbert became useless offensively in that way, and Jeff couldn't handle it either (at least early).

We don't have a lot of great ballhandlers, and while this defense gave up maybe five backdoor cuts in the second half, it also helped to force the fourteen turnovers in the first.

[Deleted]

Forcing fourteen turnovers is fine and all... but even with all that, make the WIDE OPEN LAYUPS AND SHOTS YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO MAKE, and its a different game. Can't argue with that.

I'm not trying to be a GU apologist. We got WHUPPED last night. Playing only 6 or 7 deep all year and starting 3 freshmen finally caught up with us in a BIG way. I just fail to see all the hullabaloo about BC. I've seen them live four times and a bunch on tv, and I'm still not impressed. Illinois is undefeated and crushing everyone. BC is as well, but eeking out wins left and right. And that's great... I'm one of those "a win is a win" guys. I'm just not that impressed is all. I think 'Cuse is a better team. I think UConn is a better team, despite the loss. If all this craziness is based solely on record, then fine... good for them. Like I said, my perspective may be altered a bit because I'm IN Boston and GO to BC and have to listen to all these dopes talk about how this is the best thing since sliced bread. I'm just interested to see how good they are come BET and NCAA time.

[DanMcQ]

BuffaloHoya said:

Like I said, my perspective may be altered a bit because I'm IN Boston and GO to BC and have to listen to all these dopes talk about how this is the best thing since sliced bread. I'm just interested to see how good they are come BET and NCAA time.

It is pretty annoying, isn't it?

[HoyaNCCT]

Hibbert was single handedly the worst Hoya big man to ever pick up a ball. Forget that, to call him a big man after the way he played last night is disrespectful to anyone over 5 feet. He is played like an underdeveloped, slow, scared, 7th grader. Everytime he got the ball he looked scared to have it and just turned away from the basket and shook it until someone came to take it from him.

Beyond that, HOW CAN YOU BE 7-2 AND MISS LAYUPS?!? The number of possible game changing layups he missed (at least 3) was awful. This guy has got to get tough.

[GUHoya07]

Aren't we being a bit harsh? He is just a freshman, so take it easy with the insults man.

[GPHoya]

Buffalo:

Much as I am an admirer of Skinner and this year's BC team, I relate to your circumstance and feelings. I am perfectly willing to tell Georgetown people that BC has a good team, but let one of the Eagles in my foursome start talking trash and I am the biggest critic you can find of that program. Luckily, I don't see much of them during the winter and by April they forget what happened the day before.

Jack made the accurate observation to me last night that the most annoying thing about BC is that their brain-dead fans are all so excited and in awe of going into the exalted ACC. The reading of ACC scores at Conte is like putting a statue of Cromwell up in Dublin. The basketball fans should be going into the ACC grudgingly as an accommodation to the football money and with a chip on their shoulder that they are a superior team from a superior league. Instead, this hero worship of the ACC by their so-called fans suggests that they never got the whole program with the Big East and are just a bunch of two toilet hopers who think the Saltonstalls will invite them to lunch now that they are in the club at the ACC. Instead,when the 500 Eagle high-rollers get down to the ACC tournament with their new best friends they can expect to spend their entire time being told "you'all talk funny".

[EasyEd]

HoyaNCCT- attacking a person who is trying his best in the manner you did is inexcusable.

[TBird41]

I just got back from Boston (we didn't get up til noon after drinking away our sorrows all night). My thoughts-

BC do not deserve this team. They are actually worse than MCI fans, especially the student sections. When they were spelling out Eagles, it was blatently obvious that it was pre recorded, and that none of the fans were cheering. They got a decent "Georgetown Sucks" cheer going-decent b/c it was loud, but seriously, that was the best they could come up w/? Also, a group of about 15-20 GTown fans answered that one pretty convincingly w/ "safety school". Finally, w/ a minute or two to go, everyone started leaving-which was annoying b/c I couldn't see the last minute or two of the game (I started chanting "beat the traffic" and got yelled at by some chick in a pink polo). It was pathetic-you have what is probably your best team ever, they're about to win their 18th straight game AND YOU ARE LEAVING EARLY?!?!?! What a joke.

Secondly, my impressions of the game were that BC plays to their competition, either up or down and that tends to come back to bite teams in the NCAAs. Then again, Smith is a BEAST. He made some shots that he shouldn't and his fadeaway looks like Garnett's.
Crawford played well, but if he'd made his open three and the layup on the next possession, we might have won this game. That's what happens when you have someone who's barely played taking huge shots (I'm not saying he shouldn't have been in, as he'd been playing well and very few others had). Green and Hibbert played scared. Bowman played well the 2nd half, but horribly the first. Reed played well, though he still tends to make stupid plays every once in a while. Amadou probably had his best game ever-he did everything you could expect of him (there's a reason he doesn't play that often). The most frustrating thing is that I feel like if Crawford makes those shots, we win. That game was there to win and we lost it.

[FLHoya]

TBird41 said:

BC do not deserve this team. They are actually worse than MCI fans, especially the student sections. When they were spelling out Eagles, it was blatently obvious that it was pre recorded, and that none of the fans were cheering. They got a decent "Georgetown Sucks" cheer going-decent b/c it was loud, but seriously, that was the best they could come up w/? Also, a group of about 15-20 GTown fans answered that one pretty convincingly w/ "safety school". Finally, w/ a minute or two to go, everyone started leaving-which was annoying b/c I couldn't see the last minute or two of the game (I started chanting "beat the traffic" and got yelled at by some chick in a pink polo). It was pathetic-you have what is probably your best team ever, they're about to win their 18th straight game AND YOU ARE LEAVING EARLY?!?!?! What a joke.

Secondly, my impressions of the game were that BC plays to their competition, either up or down and that tends to come back to bite teams in the NCAAs. Then again, Smith is a BEAST. He made some shots that he shouldn't and his fadeaway looks like Garnett's.
Crawford played well, but if he'd made his open three and the layup on the next possession, we might have won this game. That's what happens when you have someone who's barely played taking huge shots (I'm not saying he shouldn't have been in, as he'd been playing well and very few others had). Green and Hibbert played scared. Bowman played well the 2nd half, but horribly the first. Reed played well, though he still tends to make stupid plays every once in a while. Amadou probably had his best game ever-he did everything you could expect of him (there's a reason he doesn't play that often). The most frustrating thing is that I feel like if Crawford makes those shots, we win. That game was there to win and we lost it.

I don't buy that the game was "there to win". My general rule of thumb is in situations like this game where the team has to come back from a big deficit, I don't say something like the game was "there to win" unless we actually tied it at some point. Could we have "made a run at it"? Yeah sure. Sounds like a silly semantic difference but that's my deal.

Just don't like the...if X, Y, and Z happened, we would have won. If you're going beyond X to justify how you "could have won", then it probably wasn't as close as you think. Same reason I won't ever use the old "the refs cost us this game" line. Barring some bizarre case where the referee makes an objectively incorrect decision on a timing or location-of-foot type rule (and it happens), it's a stretch.

I'm pleased as heck with Tyler's performance, especially as the lion's share of his points came by actually running our offense and getting some open cuts and through workman-like efforts on the boards. I hope he sees more time in coming games because I really saw some valuable things he can contribute.

But the question of if Tyler makes certain shots, or a more seasoned Hoya is taking key shots in crunch time, that brings in a different issue.

I'm a believer in the notion that when you get behind big like we did last night (and against UConn), you force yourself to play perfect basketball to come back. And little mistakes--a missed 3 by a freshman, a missed and-1 with an over the back foul added, one silly TO--are always magnified because you have no room for slipups. Thus, the tendency to "blame" things like the above for stopping your team from a game they "could have won", when in reality it was far less likely than you think. The correct call in these situations, I've always felt, is not to single out the unfortunate case of the freshman missing the momentum three, but to analyze WHY we were in a situation where Tyler Crawford was our best go-to option and we were down so much in the first place.

The comment about BC playing down to their competition is intriguing. Here's a question: how would everyone here say BC played last night? I don't think they played well--they did only score 24 points in the first half and it wasn't like they were jacking up horrible shots or having a frosty spell. We obliged by running the 35 second clock down so frequently. Yet they still beat us by 15 points, and they won the scoring in both halves--and that's true even if you cut off the last two minutes of garbage time fouling.

I thought BC went through some blah moments offensively, but more than made up for it defensively by making us look foolish for 25 minutes of basketball. And that 25, not two brief Crawford moments, made all the difference. Not BC's greatest game by any stretch, maybe a C+, but that was just fine.

I've been wondering lately about BC as compared to the 2000-1 Hoyas and their 16-0 start. GU peaked at #9, and BC at #8 now will surely rise a little this week. I don't think either team can be accused of being flashy, no gigantic blowouts, no big-time marquee wins (2005 UConn? early 2001 Seton Hall? pretty good, not GREAT). Just run of the mill efficient teams with some semi-star power, but mainly a lot of solid if anonymous role players. I wonder what people were saying about the 2000-1 Hoyas around the third/fourth week of January.