Georgetown Depth

[richfame]

Im very encouraged watching the hoyas play against tenn and now maryland. I know there a young team and will definitley get better as the season goes on. The only thing im concerned about is our depth this year and next year as well. It seems wre at best 7 strong this year. But take a look at next year and its going to be just as bad if not worse.
Next year were going to lose sapp and if were lucky just one more starter either monroe or summers. So if we lose those 2 guys and only hollis is coming in i dont see how our depth is going to be any better. Unless we think clark/sims are goingn to be prime time players I still think next year were going to be thin. I know i should be jus thinking of this year but it was just a thought.

[Just Cos]

Clark will be, Sims TBD

[jerseyhoya34]

I'm there with you, rich.

I think the problem we have is a function of the success we've had. It is harder to recruit when certain spots are pretty much spoken for. Whether it was written in stone or not, you're not going to find a freshman or, likely a sophomore, who would have unseated Wallace, Roy, or Jeff Green (or taken over for Pat as 6th man). So, you're recruiting guys largely to fill in 7-10, which is where the Rivers, Macklins, Egersons, et al. invariably fit in while they were here. For whatever reason, virtually none of them stuck it out, and this is the season when they could have played or seen more of an opportunity to start, play for 10 minutes at a time, etc.
Not the least of these problems is the Braswellian quagmire, where we had our guy and backed off others in a critical recruiting stage, only to have an unfortunate situation take over.

If that Tennessee game did anything, it showed just how much of a bind we're in on the glass with Monroe/Vaughn (as PF's) having to almost go it alone in many situations. There's no room for foul trouble with Monroe against certain teams, barring development from Sims/Vaughn.

There's usually a late breaking big, and we need to be on him in the spring. I don't doubt that JT3 has something up his sleeve. We just need it all to come to fruition.

[richfame]

Exactly ambassador i was thinking worst case is Monroe left what big do we have for next year...... None. I know if summers leaves maybe, maybe we have hollis but thats asking alot of a froh and were still treading water at best. Ive read the boards for awhile now and everyone was saying just wait till next year were going to win it all. Theres knowone that wants that more than me but when these depth problems i find that task going to be more diffuclut that people think... I know its the total wrong night to have that post I didnt knwo if i was missing soemthing..

[PopeJohn2]

this year is supposedly a weak draft which is not good for us. well thats what you get when you get mcd AAs. i dont think anyone mentioned freeman as a risk of leaving?

[SirSaxa]

I think we should enjoy THIS year while it is here.

JT3 is well aware of our need for more recruits and is undoubtedly doing everything he can to get a few more guys on board. Too bad he couldn't close Ryan. Oh well.

Somehow, JT3 will pull them in. '09 and especially '10.
Kids are attracted to exciting, winning programs with tradition and a terrific coach and role model.

[RBHoya]

Can't fret too much about next year, long way away. Honestly, I think that if DaJuan and/or Greg leaves we will have to add one more body, ideally a big guy but if not somebody. Maybe a JUCO player or a late bloomer.

As for this year, we've got a solid starting 5. I think eventually Jason will settle in as the 6th man. After that, probably Vaughn/Sims and Omar/Nikita. Hopefully 2 of those 4 emerge as solid big east level reserves. Have seen some signs from some of them but I think all of them could accurately be classified as "not there yet".

FWIW, we went to the Sweet 16 in '06 with essentially a 7 man rotation, only playing 8 on rare occasions (Starting 5 + DJ, Jessie for small amounts and rarely Marc or Tyler). This team has some definite parallels to that one as I mentioned last year after our transfers... it's not a perfect parallel, but if we can get Julian or Henry to step it up a level I think we should be solid.

[jerseyhoya34]

We need another body this year. If we could play a true center (even Sims), which we can't in our starting 5, we could push Monroe/Summers to their natural positions.

Interesting thought on 2006/2008 parallel as it applies to Clark. Perhaps where the 2 years diverge is that our 7th man this year, be it Wattad or Vaughn, is a positional substitution, when Sapp/DJ were more utility guys. You could bring Sapp in for Wallace or Cook (and adjust positions), and you could bring Owens in for Wallace, Cook, or Bowman really. We can only bring Julian Vaughn in for Greg Monroe.

I don't mind the short rotation necessarily, but it just limits the team in the stretch run/tournament. No doubt - we can be solid, but our path to get there is not ideal.

[daytonahoya31]

IMH, I think there's much more of a chance of dajuan leaving than greg. He wanted to leave this year but didn't have the numbers. I think Greg will come back but be two and out. I just don't see him as a one and done type of cat. Even with the weak draft, Blake Griffin's going number 1, and Thabeet will be the second big guy taken. That's all but set in stone. Greg, coming back for a year and maturing, would have a great shot to be the top pick of the 2010 draft. I just don't think he's one of those dudes that's biding time until he becomes eligible for the draft

[OldHoyafan]

Braswell's not coming rather than Macklin leaving is affecting depth more. From all reports he was to be the broad shouldered rebounder the Hoyas desperately need now. Macklin's minutes can be effectively taken by Vaughn. I don't think Sims is venturing out to the 3pt line on his own. I think JT3 is looking to next year when Summers most likely will be gone. He is trying to get Sims confortable in playing the power forward position. In this offense the power forward ala Jeff Green will be taking wide open 3pt shots from the corner and at the top. I think we will see him working on his handle more also, driving to the basket as season progresses. Sims looks lost right now at times because he is learning the forward positioning in this offense. In the 3 games I saw this weekend his instinctive movements in this offense got progressively better. I think he will be a better rebounder also when he is more confortable with his positioning. he will be thinking about grabbing the rebound instead of where he is supposed to be on the court.

[hoyarooter]

I think we could have very much used both Braswell and Egerson this year, but those are the breaks sometimes. We certainly can't be critical of either kid.

[butler]

As far as depth next year, it's only a problem IF summers or monroe leaves. Otherwise we're looking at 9 guys who should be capable of playing: Wright/Freeman/Hollis/Summers/Greg, with Clark as the 6th man and guard off the bench, sims and vaughn as big men off the bench, and wattad at SG/SF. It's not a stacked 10 men rotation built for 40 minutes of hell, but it's a solid 9 man group that would probably result in a 8 man rotation (w/ either sims or vaughn winning the big-man spot). That's a team capable of competing for the natl title.

[hoyas big supporter]

hey lets be real here. holis will probably not make it into our starting rotation immediately next year. this is what i see to be the most probable starting five will be (assuming sims comes around):
PG- Chris
SG- Austin
SF- DaJuan
PF- Greg
C- Henry

Hollis will probably be our seventh man after clark.
Or we might end up going:
PG- Chris
SG- Jason
SF- Austin
PF- DaJuan
C- Greg

Which still makes for a solid 8-9 man rotation with Clark our 6th, Vaughn/Sims our 7th, Hollis out 8th, and whoever steps up as 9th.

[SFHoya99]

I think Thompson's PT pattern has been pretty clear: if you are good enough to play, you'll play.

The only player I think you could argue got truly squeezed for PT was Tyler, but he had some deficiencies in his game as well.

Obviously, if Greg and DaJuan stay, and Wattad and possibly Nikita reach the level of contribution, we might see something different, but that's a lot of ifs.

[butler]

I think whether we need Hollis to start next year depends a lot on Sims. If he's good enough to start at center, then yeah, I think ti's line-up is right. If Sims cant cut it, I think Hollis starts (assuming he's not completely lost, which given his rankings i expect he will not be) bc otherwise we are talking about no true guards off the bench.

[GIGAFAN99]

I'll pre-emptively say we only play a 7 1/2 man rotation (8 1/2 at the most) and shouldn't worry about depth as long as we have that many soild bodies.

This goes for every year until the end of time.

Our number of players averaging 10+ minutes a game for the season in the JTIII era have been 7, 7, 7, and 8 respectively. As long as Vaughn is healthy and Clark continues to play well, our rotation is set with Wattad fading off into the 6-8 mpg range.

The only worry next year is Monroe leaving. Anything else, we can handle (even Summers and Austin leaving). You'd think by now we'd get it. But every year we "should be running 10" or "need a big body" or "are thin at (fill in the blank)." This is how our rotation is, guys. It has been for 5 years running and that philosophy seems to be doing alright so far. We're looking for solid 7th men. Guys at 8-10 don't stick it out because, let's face it, they won't play and maybe that's OK.

[richfame]

I know this doesnt impact our road to a championship, but i think our 8- 10 man is alot better than years past. Just watching the last 5 minutes of the maryland game i think waatad, nikita, vaughn, sims, clark wre respectable. In past years if our 8 -10 man got the ball it was a feat for them to take 2 dribbles in a row without a turnover haha.. As time develops maybe these guys can be solid role players and not just stiffs. Obvoulsy im not tlaking about clark who i hope can be a prime time player but more so the others. Optimism.

[hoyaboy1]

Dec 1, 2008 19:42:21 GMT -5 GIGAFAN99 said:

far. We're looking for solid 7th men. Guys at 8-10 don't stick it out because, let's face it, they won't play and maybe that's OK.

This is at least partly because we have rarely had more than 7 guys worth playing.

[CAHoya07]

Yeah, after this weekend, while I'm happy about a lot of things, there are a few things I am concerned about - rebounding, half-court execution, handling the press. But most of all is depth. I'm only really comfortable with our starting five and Jason - after that, I get nervous. I was hoping Vaughn would be an instant replacement and possible upgrade over Macklin, but he hasn't shown me much so far. Sims has looked lost in our offense at times, and while Wattad did hit those 3's vs. Tennessee, he does seem to be a liability on defense and fouls a lot.

That said, give these guys some time and they could develop into a decent supporting cast. I'll be interested to see how they do against AU, Savannah State, Mt. St. Mary's, etc, where they figure to get more playing time.

Finally, I am worried about our depth for next year with Dashonte decomitting and possible early departures, but I think that should be left to the recruiting thread. Let's keep this thread focused on our depth for this year.