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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 29, 2008 1:16:37 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think this team would be better served with Austin as the sixth man.
That would allow Julian to start at the five, Greg at the four and Dujuan at the three.
With that, the team wouldn't be so structurally flawed and Austin would bring scoring punch off the bench.
With Julian on the floor, the team has more size. He could guard the wayne chism types head up which would make greg less susceptible to foul trouble. You wouldn't lose much ball-handling because greg is great with the ball. You wouldn't lose transition points because he's such a great athlete.
Austin would, theoretically, play the same minutes that he would as a starter. And his coming off the bench would alleviate some of the pressures of early foul trouble.
With the first unit, all Julian would need to do is concentrate on rebounding the ball and playing defense. He wouldn't have to score because with Chris, Jessie, Dajuan and Greg, that part of the game would be covered. With Julian in the first unit, it would force Henry to develop faster as the first big off the bench because he'd be the only big.
I really would see no downside to the move. It's obvious that this team needs to be structurally sound. And I think it's obvious that Greg at the four and Dajuan at the three would create tremendous matchup problems for just about anyone.
It's equally obvious that austin would provide scoring off the bench this team desperately needs.
In short, I think this move could be a huge benefit to this team
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2008 1:21:02 GMT -5
The downside to the move -- and I'm not saying it is an awful idea -- is that Austin is a much, much better player than Julian overall.
Also, Julian was not a good defensive rebounder at Florida State. Something to keep in mind.
Personally, I'm not happy about the poor rebounding, but the turnovers disturb me more. And I think they are the bigger problem.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 29, 2008 1:23:24 GMT -5
True, which is the reason that Austin still plays starters minutes. We need a great player off the bench at this point. We also need to forcefeed henry some minutes. This move would do both.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 29, 2008 1:36:20 GMT -5
Would Julian play more minutes? I don't think there's much of a change if he doesn't, and if he does, well, I'm not sure he's up to speed yet.
I really don't think it would help rebounding that much, either.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 29, 2008 1:50:11 GMT -5
It would help with greg more than anything. If Julian's gaurding the team's best big, Greg can help weakside and not worry about foul trouble. Julian plays 15-20 minutes, austin still gets his 25 minutes because he can sub at any of the three perimter spots as the first player off the bench. The rebounding's helped because, even if Julian still sucks at defensive rebounding, Greg's rebounding from the four spot, where he will almost always have the advantage, and Dajuan's rebounding against 6-6 small forwards. The move filters through the entire team, and almost as important, it forces henry to be the first big off the bench.
This team is structurally flawed. And that would be fine if we had a presence off the bench that we could run the offense through. But we don't. So In my opinion, we have to adjust. We have five guys that can score 20 amongst our starters. Putting one on the bench, bringing him off the bench, and running the offense through him would do this team a world of good.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Nov 29, 2008 2:07:49 GMT -5
Interesting idea, but I think the starting five right now is very good, and we play our best basketball when the starters are all in together. The problem right now is the bench or lack there of, but that is to be expected when every player off the bench has only played 4 games as a Hoya. Hopefully some of our other OOC games will allow us to give Vaughn, Clark, Simms confidence and real game repitions in the offense. Hopefully by the time January rolls around we will be able to depend upon ten points a game from the bench atleast, with the amount hopefully increasing with each game. . The turnovers should be expected, well most of them atleast, when you have so many new players playing together. We had the same problem in 06-07 because we were integrating so many new players. The lazy passes by Austin and the 5 second calls by Sapp are unacceptable, but they'll straighten it out, hopefully. A lot of the turnovers this game and the WSU were a result of the guys not playing together for more than three games.
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Post by tpk3 on Nov 29, 2008 4:39:04 GMT -5
Not against the idea but i do not think we need to put austin in the 6th man role. But we should just tinker with that lineup (monroe-summers-vaugh- 2 guards) in case we might need it in conference play against bigger teams. JT3 has put sims/monroe together but not vaughn.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Nov 29, 2008 5:15:29 GMT -5
I said austin because he's the one that I know can come off the bench in three positions and be a factor scoring the ball
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Nov 29, 2008 6:43:36 GMT -5
As every year with JTIII as the coach it takes time for new players to get acclimated with the offense and this year is no different. Patience is needed by all but I'm pleased with what I see so far, we aren't very deep but have an excellent core and I believe that come January we will be much better and ready for the BE.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 29, 2008 9:33:40 GMT -5
not a bad idea at all. one of the things however I like about this starting line up is that we force tempo early and having been getting off to very quick starts (5 - 0 vs Tenn; 9 - 0 vs Wich St., etc). starting the game with three guards allows for at least one of them to leak out for easy buckets. I think you lose with Vaughn. That said, I do like the idea of Vaughn out on the court with four scorers so that he can focus his energy on defense and rebouding.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 29, 2008 9:54:05 GMT -5
OK so this would make our starting 5 more structurally sound, but it could cripple us at about the 10-15 minute mark. It would leave us w/ Sims as the only big on the bench. So if (let's say) Dajuan is missing everything, Vaughn has 2 fouls, and Monroe is tired, what do we do? It's not likely there ever be a reason we NEED to take out all three of those guys, but still. I do think that LATER IN THE GAME, Dajuan, Monroe, and Vaughn could be out there together. I would just hesitate to have 3/4 of our big men starting w/ only one freshman to back up any of them.
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jhoyafan
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Post by jhoyafan on Nov 29, 2008 11:04:31 GMT -5
I think from a recruiting standpoint alone you dont bring Austin off the bench. If anyone should come off the bench it should be Sapp.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 29, 2008 11:09:31 GMT -5
I think from a recruiting standpoint alone you dont bring Austin off the bench. If anyone should come off the bench it should be Sapp. I thought the same thing for a split second and then realized it will never happen. There's no way a started for years is going to sit in favor of Julian Vaughn, regardless of size.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Nov 29, 2008 11:21:02 GMT -5
Sapp & Freeman should start, they earned it. Sims & Vaughn just need to catch up.
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Nov 29, 2008 12:32:24 GMT -5
Exactly, starting line-up is set with good reason, it will take time for the team to gel and for the freshman and Vaughn to get familuar to this level of play and comp.
If need be the starters will play extended minutes if not in foul trouble.
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kellycpcm
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Post by kellycpcm on Nov 29, 2008 12:58:07 GMT -5
I disagree with how JTIII substitutes for his 5 spot. Last year he brought in Vern for Roy and ran the same offense as if Roy was still in there. This year he has brought in Julian for Greg and made Julian play the 5. Both Vern and Julian are true 4’s. It worked last year to buy minutes- the proof- we won the BE regular season. I would like to see Julian play the 4 with Greg at the five. I don’t think Austin should be the sixth man- he comes out with so much energy to start the game. I think bringing Julian about 8 minutes into the game for either Summers or Austin would be the best move, depending whether we need to go big or small. Julian should get 10 minutes from Austin and ten from Summers most games depending on who is hot. I don’t know what to do with Henry, he wants to shoot threes from the top of the key, and he doesn’t want to go to the boards.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Nov 29, 2008 13:23:52 GMT -5
I disagree with how JTIII substitutes for his 5 spot. Last year he brought in Vern for Roy and ran the same offense as if Roy was still in there. This year he has brought in Julian for Greg and made Julian play the 5. Both Vern and Julian are true 4’s. It worked last year to buy minutes- the proof- we won the BE regular season. I would like to see Julian play the 4 with Greg at the five. I don’t think Austin should be the sixth man- he comes out with so much energy to start the game. I think bringing Julian about 8 minutes into the game for either Summers or Austin would be the best move, depending whether we need to go big or small. Julian should get 10 minutes from Austin and ten from Summers most games depending on who is hot. I don’t know what to do with Henry, he wants to shoot threes from the top of the key, and he doesn’t want to go to the boards. so basically monroe will never sit? the reason you have to bring vaughn in for monroe and not play them together is because no one else can guard the oppositions big man or play under the basket on the offensive end. until sims proves he can do this (which so far he blatantly has not), you wont see vaughn and monroe on the court at the same time. what about fouls? monroe is aggressive on defense and goes for a lot of steals - he's gotten a lot in the last few games but also gets called for cheap fouls. he's picked up 2 early ones and been forced to sit for the half in the last 2 games. what if monroe is on the bench with fouls and vaughn needs a breather. are you really going to run out a defensive front line of freeman, dajuan and sims? vaughn/sims and monroe/sims together is much more likely - in fact weve seen that a decent amount so far. as far as freeman coming off the bench is concerned, thats just a joke. he's probably our most complete / best all around player and youre going to bench him after 4 games for vaughn who has literally done nothing besides take up space down low? the problem with this team isnt tinkering with the lineup. the problem is that theyre young, they mentally take time off during the game and they make dumb mistakes. lazy passes should never happen and the biggest culprits are freeman and sapp. they picked off 5+ passes on the perimeter and turned them into fast break points. not to mention the sapp inbounds turnover down the stretch. rebounding will get better. however, boxing out your man should never be more important than having a nose for the ball. too many times i saw someone on our team go 10 feet away from the basket to box someone out and have the ball come off the rim much closer and tenn get the offensive rebound. theres a balance between boxing your man out and anticipating where the rebound will go based on the shot's trajectory and location. all this talk about our defensive "system" not allowing us to rebound well is bull Edited. we just need to be coached on good individual rebounding technique along with how you rebound well as a team. these guys need to watch tapes of rodman and ben wallace - you dont wait for the rebound to come to your area, you literally get up there and ATTACK the glass.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Nov 29, 2008 13:44:54 GMT -5
I still think the key is that Henry Sims needs to become a true 5, BiG East-ready, and Vaughn needs to focus on rebounding, rebounding, rebounding. Until that happens, we'll be undersized and suffer on the glass as a result. Summers just doesn't seem to care about crashing boards, and IMO, that is the MOST important role of a PF.
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Post by jkhoya12 on Nov 30, 2008 12:22:26 GMT -5
True, which is the reason that Austin still plays starters minutes. We need a great player off the bench at this point. We also need to forcefeed henry some minutes. This move would do both. I don't think we should be force-feeding Henry minutes at this point. I think we need to let hiim develop in practice this year and count on him next year. Jason should be our "player of the bench" if in fact we do need one main one. He has the hops to rebound well, is crafty, and can hit shots.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 30, 2008 12:27:03 GMT -5
Vaughan needs to fully recover from his injury, get more practice and Game time, and he will contribute much more than he has so far.
Henry Sims??? Let's see how he does vs. the cupcakes. Maybe JT3 can bring him along. But he is not ready now. However, I do recall the "deer in the headlights" look on Jessie Sapp's face when he came in as a sub in his first game... vs. Navy I think. He looked really unsure of himself. But... became an important contributor later that season. If we are lucky, maybe we'll get the same from Henry.
Austin needs to be in the starting lineup.... and he and all the starters need to be on the floor as much as possible. Depth will be a problem all year.
But then again, JT3 took 6 guys to the Sweet Sixteen and a very close miss vs. eventual champ FL. So it can be done!!
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