Questioning Thompson

[bronxhoya87]

Listen I love Thompson like the rest of you guys. Compared to where the program was at this time 5 or 6 years ago I am glad to be a national factor again.

However, I have to begun to question his strategy and coaching.

Last year I could never figure out why Hibbs did not touch the ball every play down court. When he touched it we played great, and when he did not we struggled. Same situation with Monroe now except Monroe is ultra talented unlike Hibbs. When he touches the ball down low good things happen. It appears as though Thompson is not stressing to the kids that the big man must touch the ball every time down. Sadly we may waste Monroe like we wasted Hibbs last year.

Also our guard play has been bad since his tenure started. All our guards no matter what year make lazy passes and countless turnovers. Dont be fooled and think this wont continue into the year. It will. It always does.

The rebounding situation speaks for itself. That and our lazy passes killed us in this game.

Thompson as great as he has been for the program needs to improve. This team is the same team as last year despite the change in personnel. We make the same stupid plays and show no heart in rebounding. The same things kill us year in and year out.

[kchoya]

You're right, lets get a new coach.

What a stupid post.

[bronxhoya87]

EDITED. When did I say get a new coach? Lie to yourself if you want but we have the same issues every year. Why does this keep happening? Thompson has to get these problems solved.

[dikembe]

Wallace rarely made bad passes. we will miss his steadiness.

[RDF]

I thought team played a nice game today against a good Tennessee team and while they lost--they were in game until Monroe was taken out to get a quick breather--and then the lead went from 8 to 2 due to ineptitude of getting a missed FT not once--but twice. That is on a player more then coaches--as we saw throughout game-guys rebounded as a team and played well together. If this game was later in year--some subbing wouldn't have happened--but it's early and you can't win games later if you never let guys play/see how team gels.

Give Tennessee some credit too. They are a good team and type of team that will give this version of Hoya fits. It's going to be a tough year for those who expect perfect basketball and guys to understand the basics--but I've seen Monroe get more touches/focal point of offense then Roy did as a SR, so don't understand your complaints there?

Let the team grow--championships, NCAA bids, etc... aren't given in November-so don't be too quick to trash the team/coaches/players. Losing sucks--but if you can take something from it--you are better for it--then beating Butthead State or Skank U.

[RDF]

Nov 28, 2008 15:40:47 GMT -5 dikembe said:

Wallace rarely made bad passes. we will miss his steadiness.

You must not have watched last year--Wallace was awful with ball at times last year and this program moved forward when he moved off the ball as primary ball handler. In halfcourt--he played 2G more then you think.

I like that team is taking good shots and not running stuff for no reason. Offensive basketball is about getting a good look and playing ball. You can't win when guys aren't moving and are thinking--which we saw with some sloppy turnovers late in game where guys stood and watched guards dribble. Nobody moved--well that was because guys were thinking/not playing.

This team already gets more transition hoops/offense off defense and runs better break then any of III's teams. They just lack size upfront and on wings. You can X and O all you want--but you need players who fit--and with this year's team the player who is missed most is PE JR. That is position where Hoyas really are hurting right now.

[GUJook97]

I have questioned JTIII many times, but I dont question him too much early in the season. These games dont mean all that much. Id rather him see what he has from everyone than play a freshman for 38 minutes. I remember people saying last year that losing to Memphis cost us an shot at being an elite #1 or 2 seed in the tourney, and its obvious there is just nothing too that.

[bronxhoya87]

I don't mind the loss. I just don't like seeing us throw away games due to stupid turnovers and rebounding. I just want to see some improvement on those two key aspects that have been plaguing us for years.

Monroe received touches yes. But he did not get enough touches in the post. We need to feed him down there since he has seemed to basically be unstoppable down there.

[dikembe]

You must not have watched last year--Wallace was awful with ball at times last year and this program moved forward when he moved off the ball as primary ball handler. In halfcourt--he played 2G more then you think.


I been watching every Hoya game on tv or in person since I was 12, and I don't recall Wallace making many bad passes. Maybe it's just me.

[SirSaxa]

Nov 28, 2008 15:48:41 GMT -5 RDF said:

the player who is missed most is PE JR. That is position where Hoyas really are hurting right now.

Was thinking the same thing the last two games.
PE Jr. would be ideal off the bench.
Energy, size, boards, defense, attitude.

Sims is not close to ready and Vaughan hasn't done much yet.
No effective size off the bench.

[superan]

Let's keep this loss in perspective. Our Final 4 season, we started 4-3 with losses to far worse teams than Tennessee.

There were so many different lineups in this game, I sincerely think JTIII is working through and seeing what works best against the different defenses as well as learning when certain players seem to be hitting their stride. I know once he gets the lineups stabilized and the players in a comfort zone with those lineups, that a lot of the mistakes we saw today will be corrected.

I was actually very impressed with our rebounding for the first 30 minutes of the game. The last 10 is what killed us.

[RDF]

Nov 28, 2008 15:52:29 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

Nov 28, 2008 15:48:41 GMT -5 RDF said:

the player who is missed most is PE JR. That is position where Hoyas really are hurting right now.

Was thinking the same thing the last two games.
PE Jr. would be ideal off the bench.
Energy, size, boards, defense, attitude.

Sims is not close to ready and Vaughan hasn't done much yet.
No effective size off the bench.

PE JR would also be flourishing with the attacking style of team we're seeing. MCIGuy was first to point this out--but nothing you can do now--but recruit for next year--and coach this year's team up.

[bronxhoya87]

We need a John Turner type enforcer wide body rebounder on this team. We lack heart on the boards.

Sapp although a glue guy and our heart and soul really lacks the big time athleticism. He played awful today.

[tpk3]

I agree with RDF in that i came away today with more positives then negatives. I understand people complaining about greg not getting ball enough, careless turnovers, poor defensive rebounding but believe me coach knows these are the teams problems. Read his quotes. he constantly talks about "half court exectution" and using greg as the "facilitator". So he gets it. But these problems do not get fixed in a week. And i was impressed with the 3 possessions before Greg got his 3rd foul-- that was BTW THE TURNING POINT OF THE GAME. otherwise we were starting to take control. In those 3 possessions greg was popping out to the top and getting the ball and making moves/creating for others-- just like Jeff used to do. We need this to continue but already in a week i have seen progress in this area. Don't worry....... the halfcourt execution will come.

With regards to rebounding i thought we played much better outside of the last 5 minutes and that one possession RDF talked about. But we did a much better job of gang rebounding and the guards got some good rebounds. the team came out and really rebounded well in the 1st half--we just have to keep it up. Careless turnovers will get better too. we have yet to see a game where all the guards have kept their focus-- today Freeman/sapp made some bad decisions. yesterday it was wright/clark. i am waiting for the game when all the guards will click.

Personally today i did not question our coach at all. in fact, if anything i saw some encouraging improvements. Today was the first day we missed our graduating seniors in terms of end game leadership....that will come too but we have only had 3 games with this group that has 6 new guys in their 9 man rotation.

Refs hosed a bit but i will lay off since chism fouled out. don't agree with "tennessee wins big". game was closer than final score and cameron tatum still has not woken up today.

I thought coming into this season that Ewing Jr would be our biggest loss and i think i am right. My favorite Hoya would have worked great with this roster.

[Highsmith]

Nov 28, 2008 15:58:24 GMT -5 @tpk3 said:

I agree with RDF in that i came away today with more positives then negatives. I understand people complaining about greg not getting ball enough, careless turnovers, poor defensive rebounding but believe me coach knows these are the teams problems. Read his quotes. he constantly talks about "half court exectution" and using greg as the "facilitator". So he gets it. But these problems do not get fixed in a week. And i was impressed with the 3 possessions before Greg got his 3rd foul-- that was BTW THE TURNING POINT OF THE GAME. otherwise we were starting to take control. In those 3 possessions greg was popping out to the top and getting the ball and making moves/creating for others-- just like Jeff used to do. We need this to continue but already in a week i have seen progress in this area. Don't worry....... the halfcourt execution will come.

With regards to rebounding i thought we played much better outside of the last 5 minutes and that one possession RDF talked about. But we did a much better job of gang rebounding and the guards got some good rebounds. the team came out and really rebounded well in the 1st half--we just have to keep it up. Careless turnovers will get better too. we have yet to see a game where all the guards have kept their focus-- today Freeman/sapp made some bad decisions. yesterday it was wright/clark. i am waiting for the game when all the guards will click.

Personally today i did not question our coach at all. in fact, if anything i saw some encouraging improvements. Today was the first day we missed our graduating seniors in terms of end game leadership....that will come too but we have only had 3 games with this group that has 6 new guys in their 9 man rotation.

Refs hosed a bit but i will lay off since chism fouled out. don't agree with "tennessee wins big". game was closer than final score and cameron tatum still has not woken up today.

I thought coming into this season that Ewing Jr would be our biggest loss and i think i am right. My favorite Hoya would have worked great with this roster.

I have to agree with you and RDF, on a lot of the points you both made. I've thought Ewing would be our biggest loss as well. Tenn was a very good game for us--yes we lost, but we showed a lot of improvement in lot of areas and proved we can play at that level and despite falling apart at the end, we proved we can win games like that. We won't have those types of mistakes every game and the other team won't shoot 60%+ from 3 every game......especially the shots that kid made down the stretch. A tough loss in that we could have and maybe should have won......but a good game for the team as it showed them they can play at that level but at the same time showed them they still need to improve.

[DudeSlade]

My two favorite teams in college sports are Georgetown basketball and USC football. Both are absolutely wonderful to watch and both JTIII and Pete Carroll have turned both moribund former dynasties around and made them top contenders every year. They coach tremendously time and time again and get their teams prepared well.

But for some reason, every loss I've seen from either program over the last few years, I can account to the coach and not to the players. I don't know what it is that makes JTIII and Pete Carroll so brilliant in one game and then clearly get outcoached in the rare instances that they lose, but it is a trend I've noticed with both.

As I've tried to figure it out, the only answer I can come up with is that both coaches over-think. They get away from the simple, straightforward method to winning games. USC loses games from stopping to run the ball, trying to get guy reps instead of keeping with the guys on a role, or not pressuring the QB enough with blitzes. Honestly, watch the games and every loss is one of those. Georgetown similarly loses from an inability to get the ball down low to our big men or attacking the basket, getting players reps instead of sticking with the hot hand or the top players, or not guarding the 3-point line. Every game I can remember losing came down to those.

This game against Tennessee, all 3 happened. Monroe didn't get the ball hardly at all in the first half after scoring the 6 early points and Vaughn and Sims never got the ball on the low block. Dajuan was only put back in the game with 4 minutes left--starting at the 6 minute mark I started questioning aloud why Dajuan, in the best game I've seen him play in a long while, wasn't in the game--in that time we went from being up to down by 5--Dajuan immediately made 2 big plays, but we couldn't turn it around. Similarly, Omar was hot and had made 2 consecutive 3-pointers when we took him out for a turnover prone Chris Wright. He's later brought in when he's cold. Didn't make sense. Lastly, Tennessee hit 3 after 3 on us, especially that Tatum kid, when we knew they were going to shoot it from there (that zone defense didn't work and even the announcers knew it--why didn't JTII?).

I don't care that it's an early season game and we need to get our guys reps. You never sacrifice a win for experience. Never. Winning is the only reason you play sports. The only reason! Additionally, these OOC games are what the NCAA selection committee looks at for seeding the tournament. If we beat Old Dominion and Memphis last year, we get a #1 seed. A #1 seed and we don't get knocked out in the 2nd round. Don't tell me early season didn't matter. Winning the Big East hasn't been good enough to get us a #1 seed the last 2 years. You need those early season OOC wins, too. And seeding does matter, especially the difference in those top seeds. Lastly, if it only happened early on, fine--we play a couple bad games early on and I hate it, but we turn it around and play great at the end. But the problem is that the same things that get us early, happen late in the season too. Look at Pitt and Davidson last year. That's coaching. You should never get beat twice because of the same reasons, let alone every single loss we have.

I don't know if its stubborness, a lack of recognition, an ability of opposing coaches to find the kink in the armor of the system, or the players inability to adapt and improve in those areas, but the few games that JTIII and Pete Carroll lose are because of their coaching and recognizing that does not make someone a bad fan, just a realistic one. I would never trade either coach. I love them both and wouldn't want anyone else in the country as my coach, but I wish I, and more importantly they, could figure out why the hell the same things seem beat their teams every time.

EDIT: I'm sorry I forgot to add lack of rebounding as one of the main things that gets us every time. Even with Roy and now Monroe and even when we are taller and bigger than the other team, we get outrebounded consistently in every loss (and even some wins). I just don't get it. What happened to Big Man U?

[sleepy]

Nov 28, 2008 17:05:36 GMT -5 DudeSlade said:

My two favorite teams in college sports are Georgetown basketball and USC football. Both are absolutely wonderful to watch and both JTIII and Pete Carroll have turned both moribund former dynasties around and made them top contenders every year. They coach tremendously time and time again and get their teams prepared well.

But for some reason, every loss I've seen from either program over the last few years, I can account to the coach and not to the players. I don't know what it is that makes JTIII and Pete Carroll so brilliant in one game and then clearly get outcoached in the rare instances that they lose, but it is a trend I've noticed with both.

As I've tried to figure it out, the only answer I can come up with is that both coaches over-think. They get away from the simple, straightforward method to winning games. USC loses games from stopping to run the ball, trying to get guy reps instead of keeping with the guys on a role, or not pressuring the QB enough with blitzes. Honestly, watch the games and every loss is one of those. Georgetown similarly loses from an inability to get the ball down low to our big men or attacking the basket, getting players reps instead of sticking with the hot hand or the top players, or not guarding the 3-point line. Every game I can remember losing came down to those.

This game against Tennessee, all 3 happened. Monroe didn't get the ball hardly at all in the first half after scoring the 6 early points and Vaughn and Sims never got the ball on the low block. Dajuan was only put back in the game with 4 minutes left--starting at the 6 minute mark I started questioning aloud why Dajuan, in the best game I've seen him play in a long while, wasn't in the game--in that time we went from being up to down by 5--Dajuan immediately made 2 big plays, but we couldn't turn it around. Similarly, Omar was hot and had made 2 consecutive 3-pointers when we took him out for a turnover prone Chris Wright. He's later brought in when he's cold. Didn't make sense. Lastly, Tennessee hit 3 after 3 on us, especially that Tatum punk, when we knew they were going to shoot it from there (that zone didn't work and even the announcers knew it--why didn't JTII?).

I don't care that it's an early season game and we need to get our guys reps. You never sacrifice a win for experience. Never. Winning is the only reason you play sports. The only reason! Additionally, these OOC games are what the NCAA selection committee looks at for seeding the tournament. If we beat Old Dominion and Memphis last year, we get a #1 seed. A #1 seed and we don't get knocked out in the 2nd round. Don't tell me early season didn't matter. Winning the Big East hasn't been good enough to get us a #1 seed the last 2 years. You need those early season OOC wins, too. And seeding does matter, especially the difference in those top seeds. Lastly, if it only happened early on, fine--we look like butt early on and I hate it, but we turn it around and play great at the end. But the problem is that the same things that get us early, happen late in the season too. Look at Pitt and Davidson last year. That's coaching. You should never get beat twice because of the same reasons, let alone every single loss we have.

I don't know if its stubborness, a lack of recognition, an ability of opposing coaches to find the kink in the armor of the system, or the players inability to adapt and improve in those areas, but the few games that JTIII and Pete Carroll lose are because of their coaching and recognizing that does not make someone a bad fan, just a realistic one. I would never trade either coach. I love them both and wouldn't want anyone else in the country as my coach, but I wish I, and more importantly they, could figure out why the hell the same things seem to beat their teams every time.

A turnover prone Chris Wright? He had 18 points and no turnovers this game, how was he turnover prone? Also I am pretty sure he was IN the game when Wattad had is second three, not sure abou the third though. Also I think in college basketball, I would rather get my bench big game expierence and confidence, even if it costs us a game in November because if you don't it could cost you a win in March. I don't know why your bringing up Old Dominion because I am sure losing that game contributed to a win somewhere down the line. We went to the final four without the #1 seed and if we had got it who knows who we would have had to match up with.
In regards to the Memphis game, the team had numerous opportunities to obtain a number 1 seed after that loss, if we had beaten Pitt in the NCAA tournament we would have gotten it. To point to that one game where we lost to a better team on the road is a little silly.
Also I don't know why everyone is complaining about Monroes touches. He didn't get the ball the rest of the first half because he was on the bench. he only played 8 minutes in the first half. He got plenty of touches in the second, he just wasn't attacking that much, he was letting it come to him.

[bronxhoya87]

For someone to say that Thompson has sufficiently addressed our major concerns on the court would be a lie. I love our coach but he has some shortcomings he has yet to address. Rebounding, turnovers and zone D stifle us every game. Thompson must fix the problem.

[SFHoya99]

dudeslade,

I'm curious how so many of our GU losses were coaching. The BET loss to Pitt was coaching? Really? How about the Ohio State loss? Memphis last year? We lose to the second best team in the nation, at their place, where we were outmuscled and it was coaching?

[HoyasAreHungry]

this always comes up after a loss...consistently....someone always has to sound the "it's the coach" horn....look we lost a tough game....yes I along with all of you will sometimes think to myself....why did he take him out to put in this guy?? or other little things. It's easy to sit in our living rooms and say he's doing this this and this wrong. I really think that JTIII is not too stubborn to see the weaknesses that this team has or even the weaknesses that he may have in coaching. When all is said and done coach's definitely help make a good team great...but he is also not in there missing a box out or turning over the ball....I'm pretty sure he didn't draw up a lazy pass play by austin. We all get frustrated and yes of course noone is perfect...it's just funny that noone brings up coaching when we win. Just my 2cents