TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 20, 2012 10:34:36 GMT -5
And is this the third time you have failed to recognize that, without voter ID, dead people can vote? Or illegal aliens? Dead people can receive social security checks as well. Would you advocate the elderly needing to show up at a government office every week with identification to receive their check, or would you say that would be placing an undue burden on vulnerable populations relative to the problem that you would be cutting down on? How do these old people cash their social security checks without a photo id?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 20, 2012 11:21:11 GMT -5
And is this the third time you have failed to recognize that, without voter ID, dead people can vote? Or illegal aliens? Dead people can receive social security checks as well. Would you advocate the elderly needing to show up at a government office every week with identification to receive their check, or would you say that would be placing an undue burden on vulnerable populations relative to the problem that you would be cutting down on? Of course, there's no middle-ground alternative for checking for fraud.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 20, 2012 11:25:40 GMT -5
How do these old people cash their social security checks without a photo id? Not sure I understand the question. No one's doubting they had a photo ID at one point, we're doubting they are living and breathing. Very easy to cash a dead person's check - just sign it over.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 20, 2012 12:15:20 GMT -5
How do these old people cash their social security checks without a photo id? Not sure I understand the question. No one's doubting they had a photo ID at one point, we're doubting they are living and breathing. Very easy to cash a dead person's check - just sign it over. No, I mean that if requiring a person to have a photo id disenfranchises old people, how do those disenfranchised old people cash their social security checks?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 20, 2012 12:25:55 GMT -5
Very easy to cash a dead person's check - just sign it over. How would you know?
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 20, 2012 12:29:46 GMT -5
No one is going to base his/her presidential vote on the pipeline. There are dozens of more relevant economic issues to those who are NOT either building it or selling land to it or some other direct payment from the project.
And Houston doesn't matter in the election either. Texas is conceded and all the oil money will go to the Republican no matter what Obama does about the pipeline.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 20, 2012 12:38:51 GMT -5
Yeah, Obama and other Democratic politicians NEVER receive piles and piles of campaign cash from oil companies. Except when they do.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 20, 2012 12:59:23 GMT -5
No, I mean that if requiring a person to have a photo id disenfranchises old people, how do those disenfranchised old people cash their social security checks? I think you understand that the argument is more that voter ID isn't proven to stop anything and probably won't and will be a cumbersome logistical burden to old people, just like requiring old people to show up somewhere to get their social security checks with an ID would be to authenticate that they are alive and the recipient of the check. It is disenfrachising to segments of the population who don't have an ID and don't need one.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 20, 2012 13:05:39 GMT -5
Business donors are business first, politics second, so they always hedge their bets and then they come in with late money for the winner to make sure they can get the meetings and phone calls answered when they need a special favor. Are you saying the oil industry supports Obama?
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 20, 2012 13:07:49 GMT -5
Yeah, Obama and other Democratic politicians NEVER receive piles and piles of campaign cash from oil companies. Except when they do. What about his point is wrong? Texas is a red state, and the Republican nominee will receive the oil money : Link to McCain / Obama contributions by sector : www.outsidethebeltway.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/contributions-obama-mccain.gifThe fact that every politician - Democrat or Republican - in Louisiana, Texas, and Alaska is owned by oil - maybe to differing degrees from "I'll do you a favor" to full blown bootlicking Joe Bartonship - is really besides the point.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 20, 2012 13:29:43 GMT -5
No, I mean that if requiring a person to have a photo id disenfranchises old people, how do those disenfranchised old people cash their social security checks? It is disenfrachising to segments of the population who don't have an ID and don't need one. I still just don't understand how these people w/o IDs function.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jan 20, 2012 13:31:34 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it infuriating when Newt Gingrich, who holds a Ph.d, was Speaker of the House, made millions of dollars as a lobbyist (or not a lobbyist, take your pick), has written a dozen books, etc. criticizes the "elites"? By what measure is he not part of the "elite"?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 20, 2012 13:45:54 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 20, 2012 13:48:32 GMT -5
I like how he basically admits that 95% of what he wrote in that article is nonsense in the last paragraph.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 20, 2012 13:52:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Obama and other Democratic politicians NEVER receive piles and piles of campaign cash from oil companies. Except when they do. What about his point is wrong? Texas is a red state, and the Republican nominee will receive the oil money : Link to McCain / Obama contributions by sector : www.outsidethebeltway.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/contributions-obama-mccain.gifThe fact that every politician - Democrat or Republican - in Louisiana, Texas, and Alaska is owned by oil - maybe to differing degrees from "I'll do you a favor" to full blown bootlicking Joe Bartonship - is really besides the point. I still fail to see how an increase in natural resources coming in to the US does not effect every single state.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 20, 2012 13:56:24 GMT -5
The Democrats oppose Voter Photo ID because they want to make it possible for dead people to vote Democratic.
That's not any more absurd than saying Republicans want it to disenfranchise minorities. Or, by implication, old people also.
If dead people are on the voter rolls for South Carolina, as they always are in Chicago, and probably throughout the country, what's to keep someone other than the dead person from voting at the polls under the dead person's name? This is a question by itself but it seems people want to change the subject to absentee ballots or Social Security or whatever without answering this specific question.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 20, 2012 14:24:53 GMT -5
Yeah, Obama and other Democratic politicians NEVER receive piles and piles of campaign cash from oil companies. Except when they do. What about his point is wrong? Texas is a red state, and the Republican nominee will receive the oil money : Link to McCain / Obama contributions by sector : www.outsidethebeltway.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/contributions-obama-mccain.gifThe fact that every politician - Democrat or Republican - in Louisiana, Texas, and Alaska is owned by oil - maybe to differing degrees from "I'll do you a favor" to full blown bootlicking Joe Bartonship - is really besides the point. The fact that "Texas is conceded" is fairly accurate, at least in terms of the presidential election. Making the claim: "all the oil money will go to the Republican" is simply a fantasy. That is what is wrong. But I think you knew that. With apologies to Andy Dufresne, I believe you are being deliberately obtuse.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 20, 2012 14:34:20 GMT -5
The fact that every politician - Democrat or Republican - in Louisiana, Texas, and Alaska is owned by oil - maybe to differing degrees from "I'll do you a favor" to full blown bootlicking Joe Bartonship - is really besides the point. If you accurately expand the group people who care about pipeline projects to "the energy industry," you can add quite a few more states to the list: Oklahoma, Wyoming, and the battleground state of Colorado come to mind. And if mining interests in West Virginia are wondering who to support, it's pretty easy for Republicans to say "look how Obama treats the oil industry." Regulation has been a constant theme for Republican candidates in this campaign. Y'all are right that the actual Keystone XL pipeline issue itself will not be a decisive issue for many voters at all, but it certainly provides a nice jumping-off point for Republicans who are making pitches to voters and/or potential donors. If this wasn't an important issue, why else did the R's act to rush the administration's decision by setting a deadline? (By the way, I thought deadlines were anathema to Republican thought. Or is that just for wars?)
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Jan 20, 2012 14:44:25 GMT -5
The Democrats oppose Voter Photo ID because they want to make it possible for dead people to vote Democratic. That's not any more absurd than saying Republicans want it to disenfranchise minorities. Or, by implication, old people also. If dead people are on the voter rolls for South Carolina, as they always are in Chicago, and probably throughout the country, what's to keep someone other than the dead person from voting at the polls under the dead person's name? This is a question by itself but it seems people want to change the subject to absentee ballots or Social Security or whatever without answering this specific question. Voter ID would cut down on voter fraud. Voter fraud is a problem. This does not imply that the best solution to cutting down on fraud is Voter ID, which is what I was getting at with the social security analogy.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 20, 2012 16:21:30 GMT -5
T Minus 366
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