The Julian Vaughn Exception?

[Grandpa]

This article details the application by a former Missouri player (Keon Lawrence) who is trying to obtain a similar "hardship" wavier as Julian Vaughn entitling him to play this season for Seton Hall:

Alif Muhammad said Lawrence’s appeal would be based on the NCAA’s allowing Julian Vaughn - who transferred to Georgetown from Florida State - to play immediately for the Hoyas. The reason given by Georgetown for the hardship application was “personal reasons” related to needing to be closer to home that the player did not want made public. Muhammad said several members of Lawrence’s family are facing “serious medical issues.”

www.kansascity.com/385/story/744693.html

[The Stig]

We'll see what happens. One notable thing about Julian's waiver is that they never publicly revealed that they were asking for one. The whole thing was done through the proper channels, not the media. When you compare that to the Gus Gilchrist case, I think that probably helped Julian's case.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

Isn't it really the Tyler Smith exception?

[kchoya]

Aug 14, 2008 8:32:34 GMT -5 BubbleVisionBiff said:

Isn't it really the Tyler Smith exception?

No, Georgetown is a more prestigious and better program than UT, so they cite to GU.

More likely: Vaughan is a better example because less is known than in the Tyler Smith situation.

[SirSaxa]

even more likely, the Vaughan case is the most recent and most relevant to a Big East team like the Hall.

But the circumstances sound vastly different.
And JT3 has a far different rep than Bobby G.

[jgalt]

Aug 14, 2008 11:30:35 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

But the circumstances sound vastly different.
And JT3 has a far different rep than Bobby G.

but that kind of stuff gets lost in news blurbs, so i hope that people dont start thinking anything shady went on with vaughn and begin associating Gtown with shady stuff (insert obligatory rant by random poster about how every team has skeletons in its closet and gtown is no different). Im not so concerned with how people view the team if their opinion is based on wrong info, but that kind of thing has a nasty habit of turning into a bigger problem with recruiting, etc.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

Aug 14, 2008 11:24:30 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Aug 14, 2008 8:32:34 GMT -5 BubbleVisionBiff said:

Isn't it really the Tyler Smith exception?

No, Georgetown is a more prestigious and better program than UT, so they cite to GU.

More likely: Vaughan is a better example because less is known than in the Tyler Smith situation.

Fair enough, though I'm not sure I would put up Old Spice bulletin board material so early

IIRC, one of the most important factors in Julian's case was that Leonard Hamilton did not object. Since the article suggests that MO could still object (based on how the thing is alleged to have gone down), it seems IMO to still be a risky strategy. Publicly trying to force MO's hand (what seems to be going on) when MO is under no obligation to do so and when Anderson (MO coach) probably isn't too thrilled with the kid already seems like a risk to me.

This is not to diminish whatever family health issues there might be, but if they are going to use Julian's situation as a model, they might have wanted to approach the appeal in the same way (quietly and with discretion).

EDIT: and to pile on with jgalt, if he doesn't get the appeal, some will crow that GU gets special treatment, regardless of the actual facts of the case (see Gus).

[SFHoya99]

When has Bobby Gonzalez ever done anything quietly and with discretion?

I thought he'd be a good coach for the Hall, but with his public persona -- he has to win. They fired one of the classiest guys around in Orr (who won more than Bobby G has), so I think Bobby needs to start winning.

Either way, I feel for the kid.

[vcjack]

Aug 14, 2008 11:30:35 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

even more likely, the Vaughan case is the most recent and most relevant to a Big East team like the Hall.

But the circumstances sound vastly different.
And JT3 has a far different rep than Bobby G.

Actually its more like JTIII is a respected gentleman while Gonzalez is a spasdic tool

EDIT: SF and I basically said the same thing at the same time, weird

[BubbleVisionBiff]

To SF and vjack's points, I agree, and that's what I am talking about: if you're going try and better yourself by comparing yourself to GU in a similar circumstance, you should probably act like GU did while you're at it.

If Bobby G is working with/through Muhammad, then he is just Editeding off another head coach needlessly. Just seems like a bad strategy to me, especially if you are trying to get a guy on the roster who may have an immediate positive impact.

[Grandpa]

FWIW - Here's a link to Lawrence's stats at Missouri - seems like a versatile guard-type:

In summary for 2007-08:

29 mins pg
11 ppg
1 3PMpg
2 apg
3 rpg
1 spg
0.5 bpg

sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31795

[SFHoya99]

He's more of a pure scoring guard. He's a talented guy, but I'm not sure how he fits in on a team with a decent amount of guard talent (Harvey, Theodore, Hazell, Gause) and almost no big men.

[SirSaxa]

EXCERPT FROM THAT LINKED STORY

In Vaughn’s case, Florida State did not object to the hardship appeal. MU officials might well object to Lawrence’s appeal, based on the way Lawrence left Columbia earlier this summer.

Lawrence sent a letter to the MU coaches stating he was unhappy and that he wanted to look around for another school. He later had second thoughts but Coach Mike Anderson, tired of having to talk Lawrence into staying at MU on several occassions, released Lawrence.

The circumstances above don't sound anything like those surrounding Julian Vaughan. Based on the above, I don't see any way Bobby G wins this one.

And it is true he replaced a class act in Orr (Did I just write something positive about an orangeman?!?!?!)

But Orr was not an effective recruiter and refused to add assistant coaches who were.
And he was reluctant to engage important alumni/boosters at University events.

Still, I was surprised and sorry when he was let go. And more surprised the Hall chose Bobby as his replacement. Had the same circumstances arisen regarding Lawrence under Orr, it is a safe bet to say that Louis would have handled it far differently.

[SFHoya99]

Lawrence has family issues. Was that the reason he left Missouri? I don't know. But were I the NCAA, I would tread on the side of being accomodating to those with immediate family members with health issues.

[lichoya68]

DONT CARE WHAT JULIANS REASON WAS good luck to him adn may what ever it was work out but welcome to the hilltop julian welcome go hoysaxa

[aggypryd]

If someone in your family was having a crisis, medical or otherwise, wouldn't it be in the player's and the team's best interest if he wasn't eligible this season?

Not hating on Julian. I'm glad that he'll be balling for us next year, but if the situation at home was such that he needed to transfer closer to his family, redshirting this year might give him the flexibility that he needs.

Maybe basketball will be a needed distraction from what's going on. Whatever it is, I wish him well.

[SirSaxa]

Aug 14, 2008 14:00:26 GMT -5 aggypryd said:

If someone in your family was having a crisis, medical or otherwise, wouldn't it be in the player's and the team's best interest if he wasn't eligible this season?

Perhaps, but that is not an NCAA decision.

And there is another view. I can't imagine a parent or grandparent wanting their medical situation to prevent their child from pursuing their own life and goals. Most parents know that would only make them feel worse.

[idhoya]

SF,

Agreed on Orr. I met him a couple of summers ago and he is a very spiritual person. I was told he's gone through some personal trials in his life. After we finished talking about his NY career (he was one of my favs) we parted with a hand shake and a God bless. Classy, humble guy.

[mapei]

Nice anecdote about Orr.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

It's now the Alex Stephenson exception

sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3541825