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Post by hoyahopeful on Jun 4, 2008 13:56:39 GMT -5
I noticed a few days back that the AD from Notre Dame left for Duke. Isn't that where Muir came from? I believe that he was their Assistant AD? Could he possibly be on their list of candidates? There are many reasons why not, but there are a few that make it plausible.
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hoya4ever
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Post by hoya4ever on Jun 4, 2008 15:07:02 GMT -5
I don't think he will be the next one. Notre Dame would pick an AD from a similar athletic program. We only have basketball, crew, lax, and all the track and field events to distinguish us and a small budget.
They need someone from a powerhouse right now.
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Post by showcase on Jun 9, 2008 15:37:20 GMT -5
I thought this was the buckeye70 thread asking if we were going to schedule ND soon as part of a push to upgrade football for whenever the seemingly inevitable Big East split comes to pass. My mistake...
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 9, 2008 18:53:33 GMT -5
We only have basketball, crew, lax, and all the track and field events to distinguish us and a small budget. The people who portray Georgetown as a basketball team and nothing more ought to get their facts straight. Georgetown now has the largest budget of any school not playing I-A football: that's more than Mississippi State, Temple, Hawaii, Utah, UNLV, or a dozen other I-A schools. It will likely pass South Florida for the 7th largest budget in the entire Big East in 2008. Georgetown now sponsors more Division I intercolegiate teams than any other Big East school: 29. . That lists contains some soon to be distinguished programs in women's soccer, sailing, golf, and yes, football. Georgetown's football budget places it 20th among 40 eastern I-AA schools and with a better result on the field, that number can go nowhere but upward once alumni and fans get behind the program. Georgetown has consistently ranked among the top five programs in the East in the NACDA all sports standings. You've got Duke, North Carolina, Harvard and Princeton, and Georgetown is right there with them. So let's put the "small Catholic school" stereotype to rest.
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Jun 9, 2008 19:04:07 GMT -5
The biggest knock against Muir is that he isn't a Notre Dame alum. Notre Dame usually hires within the family for the AD job. Georgetown is a better place for him anyways.
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hoya4ever
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Post by hoya4ever on Jun 9, 2008 19:06:10 GMT -5
DFW, I respect you and your argument very much man, but the post was a little strongly worded.
Those are very interesting facts that I will admit I did not know. Kind of makes me proud. Reality is, Georgetown is not comparable, right now, to Notre Dame. It's not just about the budget or the multitude of sports, though I think that is awesome.
It's about the culture. Notre Dame and Georgetown are very different in that regard. Yeah, we are getting some of that back, but I have been to ND athletic events and obviously I just spend four and a half years attending every Georgetown event I possibly could.
We are not the same. The priorities of each school are not the same. They will be looking for someone who has experience in the field. Now, personally, I would think an experience where alums are not quite to par in fundraising (however much has been donated, I can't look up the amount right now) or general support is better because it means you can suceed with less means. I don't know if ND will see it the same way.
We don't even know if the dude is even considered or that he wants the job.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 9, 2008 19:36:13 GMT -5
I'm not looking to compare Georgetown with Notre Dame in terms of the Kevin White position, but I write as someone frustrated with the tenor expressed on the boards of late that basketball is the only ship in the harbor and that there are no other sports at Georgetown, figuratively speaking. Men's and women's basketball represent just five percent of the student-athlete population. We salute their success, but not at the expense of 700 other students and their accomplishments as well.
Equally perplexing was the comment on the basketball board from someone which claimed Georgetown had the worst football team in Division I--poor as the record was in 2007, that statement is not even close to reality and does not advance the cause of the sport at the school. If Georgetown football had even a fraction of the recruiting latitude basketball has, they'd be absolutely tearing up the Patriot League. But the Patriot League doesn't work that way, so the lowest ranked team gets the highest admissions threshold to deal with, and they'll prevail nonetheless.
And that's why September 20 is already circled on the calendar.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Jun 11, 2008 14:25:50 GMT -5
DFW where did you get those facts? im curious and was surprised.
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hoyaLS05
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Jun 11, 2008 22:16:02 GMT -5
I'm not looking to compare Georgetown with Notre Dame in terms of the Kevin White position, but I write as someone frustrated with the tenor expressed on the boards of late that basketball is the only ship in the harbor and that there are no other sports at Georgetown, figuratively speaking. Men's and women's basketball represent just five percent of the student-athlete population. We salute their success, but not at the expense of 700 other students and their accomplishments as well. Equally perplexing was the comment on the basketball board from someone which claimed Georgetown had the worst football team in Division I--poor as the record was in 2007, that statement is not even close to reality and does not advance the cause of the sport at the school. If Georgetown football had even a fraction of the recruiting latitude basketball has, they'd be absolutely tearing up the Patriot League. But the Patriot League doesn't work that way, so the lowest ranked team gets the highest admissions threshold to deal with, and they'll prevail nonetheless. And that's why September 20 is already circled on the calendar. I think it does or should go without saying that when it comes to this discussion, there is no one whose opinion I respect more than DFW. That said, a few points: - Perception may be a great problem than reality. What I mean is that it strikes me as rather problematic that many of the most ardent supporters of Georgetown athletics feel that basketball is the only sport that competes seriously and the only sport that matters. While that may not be true, if people THINK it is true, the university community will continue to struggle to support these programs. - As far as the statement about football being the worst in Division I and it not "advanc[ing] the cause of the sport at the school," I always shudder when anyone on the board suggests that it is incumbent upon posters here to advance any cause. Sometimes, an honest discussion doesn't advance the cause, and that is fine by me. Of course, the statement in question is, in fact, false. That's the problem here, not the degree to which it furthers a cause. - Lastly, the degree to which budgetary and admissions decisions affect our football team are well documented. We've all heard it on the board and I've heard it from university employees. But I don't quite get this: "If Georgetown football had even a fraction of the recruiting latitude basketball has, they'd be absolutely tearing up the Patriot League." Why? How can we say this for sure? I know the likely arguments here, and there is absolutely something to them, but I'm not totally sold. This strikes me as slightly too presumptuous. Anyway, this thread has gone slightly astray. I've wondered for the better part of the last two years if there was a job that could make Bernard Muir leave Georgetown (I think I started a thread sort of in that vein at some point). Notre Dame was always at the top of my mental list, but I agree, he doesn't quite have the requisite resume and background (yet). And football at Georgetown? I too hope this is the year we begin to see a turnaround.
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LBPop
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Post by LBPop on Jun 12, 2008 13:10:45 GMT -5
Anyway, this thread has gone slightly astray. I've wondered for the better part of the last two years if there was a job that could make Bernard Muir leave Georgetown (I think I started a thread sort of in that vein at some point). Notre Dame was always at the top of my mental list, but I agree, he doesn't quite have the requisite resume and background (yet). And football at Georgetown? I too hope this is the year we begin to see a turnaround. While I have no special source of information about this topic, I have had the opportunity to speak one-on-one with Bernard Muir and have heard him speak to groups interested in Hoya athletics on a few occasions. Here are my observations/conclusions: Bernard Muir is a talented and ambitious individual. I have always felt that the Georgetown job was an interim situation for him within his personal career plan. This is not a criticism; he is an impressive man and has set high goals for himself. His resume is still fairly thin for a school like Notre Dame. He probably has received a little too much credit for the basketball successes of late and a little too much "blame" for the performance of the football program. But I guess that's how athletics always seem to work. However, deserved or not I think that the football program represents the biggest hole in his resume. Coach Kelly was his hand-picked guy and Coach Benson was almost certainly replaced by Muir's decision. If the program turns around (more on that below), Muir and Kelly will both benefit greatly and I think that would make Muir a hot commodity. With respect to Bernard Muir and Notre Dame, I heard (I have no definite knowledge) that his departure from Notre Dame was largely precipitated by that school's treatment of Ty Willingham. So if there is some bad blood there, that would certainly make a move back to South Bend highly unlikely in the near future. Finally with respect to the football program, I am not optimistic. The 2008 schedule is a killer, the team figures to be younger than 2007, and the key position (QB) will almost certainly be filled by a freshman. With the one exception of Marist, if I were setting the line I would make Georgetown no less than a 7 point underdog for every game. It will be very tough for those kids to improve their record from 2007 and with 75% of the squad being Kelly/Muir recruits, that doesn't help anyone's resume.
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Jun 12, 2008 17:51:55 GMT -5
If Notre Dame is about culture, and I decidedly agree with that statement, then something terrible must be wrong in South Bend when the AD can decide that a move to Duke is preferable over staying in South Bend.
For decades, Notre Dame football success alone justified rating the athletic culture of Notre Dame over almost any in the country, and Duke would never have been mentioned in the same category. I often wonder what the rationale behind LSU's hiring of Duke's AD was; maybe LSU was being realistic in that no candidates existed who could fit the athletic department's current stature in collegiate athletics and settling for the next best thing who could grow into the role would work better than promoting from within.
And while I'm sure Notre Dame's karmic regression in football this year probably made the AD seat kind of hot in South Bend, if Charlie Weis is "Notre Dame's guy" at head ball coach, isn't the AD the guy as well? Or did someone have to fall on their sword, and the Notre Dame PTB back Weis?
Regardless, I don't exactly see Georgetown as a "stepping stone" type of job, mostly because generating the type of success required for moving on to bigger and better things requires success in the revenue sports, in which Georgetown has pretty substantial built-in obstacles to overcome, in addition to catching lightning in a bottle. Also, a significant amount of institutional will would be required to overcome obstacles such as facilities, a battle that almost no AD will ever win at Georgetown because of priorities.
I suspect that Notre Dame, being Notre Dame, will probably overshoot on filling the AD spot, and find a deficit of attractive candidates, before finding either a high-profile Charlie Weis-type with a skill set decidedly in favor of public relations over administration, or promoting internally from within something nonadministrative, like SID.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jun 13, 2008 12:54:25 GMT -5
So...he moved from a once great football team that is overrated due to their past successes, to a once great basketball team that is overrated due to their past successes? Good call
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Post by fsohoya on Jun 13, 2008 13:54:27 GMT -5
HometownHoya, I assume you are referring to the Hoyas as "a once great basketball team that is overrated due to their past successes" in reference to the Esh years, not the current program. If I'm wrong, I think you might want to check over the results from the last few seasons.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 13, 2008 14:40:52 GMT -5
HometownHoya, I assume you are referring to the Hoyas as "a once great basketball team that is overrated due to their past successes" in reference to the Esh years, not the current program. If I'm wrong, I think you might want to check over the results from the last few seasons. He's talking about Kevin White, not Bernard Muir. He means going from ND to Duke
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Post by HometownHoya on Jun 13, 2008 18:03:38 GMT -5
HometownHoya, I assume you are referring to the Hoyas as "a once great basketball team that is overrated due to their past successes" in reference to the Esh years, not the current program. If I'm wrong, I think you might want to check over the results from the last few seasons. He's talking about Kevin White, not Bernard Muir. He means going from ND to Duke Thanks ;D
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Jun 16, 2008 12:12:13 GMT -5
If Notre Dame is about culture, and I decidedly agree with that statement, then something terrible must be wrong in South Bend when the AD can decide that a move to Duke is preferable over staying in South Bend. Not really the case. White had lost much of his control when the BOT called for Willingham's ouster over his objection. As I understand it, White left Notre Dame of his own volition, but there were no attempts by those with the power to do so to keep him. I don't know of any Notre Dame fan who is disappointed by this move.
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