guru
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Post by guru on Mar 28, 2008 9:14:33 GMT -5
I was just looking at CHN's all freshman picks: tinyurl.com/33wtbhand noticed that Freeman is nowhere to be found, not even on the honorable mentions. I don't think he deserved to be on the list - he had a few very nice moments but was overall fairly invisible in the latter half of the season. This is a kid who was a consensus top 10 recruit last season, and the CHN list goes 26 deep (including honorable mentions). Just thought it was interesting to note, especially with people so fired up about the impact Monroe might have on next year's squad. I think with JT3's system, it's hard to come in and be a huge contributor right away. And to be clear, I love Austin's game and know he'll be a major contributor, I just wonder if other fans expected him to have a bigger impact this season.
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hoyasexy
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Post by hoyasexy on Mar 28, 2008 9:21:52 GMT -5
The difference between Freeman and Monroe will be more about timing. Freeman was a freshman on a team led by a handful of seniors, which limited his ability to generate much buzz around him. With those guys graduating, next year's team will be a lot younger. There will be more opportunities for Greg to shine. I expect Freman to have a break out season next year as well.
Note one thing. I am talking about hype, which is the only thing that matters when the media comes up with lists like this. Freeman was great this year, but he did it very quietly, and only those who paid attention would have noticed.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 28, 2008 9:41:11 GMT -5
Austin did make the Big East freshmen team, so he must have done something right - but yes, he was never a focus of the team, particularly with the media, so it was not the "memorable" rookie season some others had.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 28, 2008 10:06:57 GMT -5
51.3%, 40%, and 81.6% = 172.9. Those numbers and his PPS are eerily close to Jeff Green's from last year.
His numbers fell off in Big East play but still 47%, 33% and 79% which is still very good for a freshman. Plus, his defense and rebounding actually improved as the year went along.
When people talk impact on a JTIII team, we're talking numbers that look modest but contribute to wins. Put it this way, if the #5 pick in the nba draft can only average 14 and 6 how much statistical impact can anyone have?
Freeman had a great freshman year and was a major contributor. The difference is our starters are all separated by 4ppg and 3rpg so it's hard to distinguish him as a "high impact" player. But he was as high an impact as anyone else on a 28-6 team that won the Big East regular season.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 28, 2008 10:22:08 GMT -5
Offensively, this is how Freeman fit in with the offense from a usage and efficiency standpoint:
Roy led the team with 26% of possessions and a high but less than last year 119 efficiency.
Then we had our higher usage, lower efficiency trio -- comprised of two playmakers and Summers:
Sapp - 23%/106 (turnovers) Wright - 22%/98 (turnovers/shooting) Summers - 24%/103 (3 point shooting, lack of assists)
Sapp and Wright generated assists to help offset some of this (and Wright's obviously a short sample based primarily on early play), but Summers, who wasn't a bad offensive player, just wasn't that efficient an offensive player for a Georgetown player.
Then comes our trio of guys who made what they took -- people who knew what a good shot was more or less:
Wallace - 18%/122 (Bam!) Freeman - 18%/115 (mini-Wallace) Ewing - 18%/109 (would be higher but for turnovers)
So even if you understand our system, it's hard really to quantify the impact of a player like that. He was a finisher for us, not a creator, and he was very good at that. His defense and rebounding greatly improved to my eye. But I don't think it's awful he was left off that list -- he simply wasn't responsible for as much as some of those guys (though I'm sure I could cherry pick a few he had more impact than).
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Mar 28, 2008 10:27:21 GMT -5
I was impressed by Freeman this year. More than once, I looked up to the scoreboard at the Booth and was surprised to see him as the leading scorer - he always seemed to do it quietly. He drops a few pounds, works on his mid-range game and defense, and we could be seeing something special next year.
The thing I wonder is how much of an opportunity he'll get to prove it. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll see his minutes for sure, but he's on a team that will have five guards, and he'll be the second SF assuming Monroe or Braswell come in to the PF spot and Summer moves back to SF. Could Freeman be the Hoyas' 6th man next year? It's waayyyyyy too early to tell, and with his skill set he should start, but it's an interesting prospect.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 28, 2008 10:31:18 GMT -5
I see no way Freeman doesn't start next year. Wright, Sapp, Freeman, Summers and eventually Monroe in my mind, though everyone will get a shot.
To be honest, though, watching their play down the stretch, I don't think Freeman is the guy who could lose his starting spot unless he vounteers it. I don't think anyone does -- but he wasn't the one losing minutes.
Freeman is a scorer -- so plus for sixth man when presumably a scorer goes off the court. But he's not a microwave/sparkplug type. Chris will be starting and he'll keep the pace up, but who's the fire off the bench?
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 28, 2008 10:37:12 GMT -5
I see no way Freeman doesn't start next year. Wright, Sapp, Freeman, Summers and eventually Monroe in my mind, though everyone will get a shot. To be honest, though, watching their play down the stretch, I don't think Freeman is the guy who could lose his starting spot unless he vounteers it. I don't think anyone does -- but he wasn't the one losing minutes. Freeman is a scorer -- so plus for sixth man when presumably a scorer goes off the court. But he's not a microwave/sparkplug type. Chris will be starting and he'll keep the pace up, but who's the fire off the bench? Sapp? I know he's guaranteed to start but Wright, Freeman, Summers, Monroe, Macklin starting and Jessie coming in off the bench is interesting because he's such a spark and he truly can play either guard slot on both ends of the floor. And Sapp is a guy who would do that if he thought the team needed it. As the only senior, he might consider it. Probably not, but it is possible.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 28, 2008 10:41:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean Sapp makes a lot of sense. He and Wright are the real playmakers on offense on next year's team, so you need one of them on the floor at all times. (Unless Monroe is just ridiculous or Summers becomes what we hope).
But he's a senior, starter the last two years, etc. So you can't bench him, can you?
I think what will happen is either Sapp or Wright will be the first one out so that Thompson can space their time off the court. But that doesn't solve the issue of who comes in when we look lethargic and start slowly. Maybe if we pressure more on D we switch to a killer defensive lineup. I dunno. I don't even know if it is really necessary.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Mar 28, 2008 11:09:08 GMT -5
I've seen people say a few times that Austin needs to work on his midrange game, and I frankly don't see it. I thought he was awesome midrange, he always seemed to hit that 15 foot j. His only real issue in the midrange sense, to me, was that we couldn't use him as the foul line player against the 2-3 because he's too short to get him the ball with ease at that spot. All that kid needs to do is drop a few pounds (not saying he's big but he'd improve his first step) and tighten up his handle. The weight will give him more of an explosive first step and improve his D, and the handle will let him stay on the court as the secondary ballhandler. I trust that kid on the offensive end more than anybody on our team next year.
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HoyaNJ5
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Post by HoyaNJ5 on Mar 28, 2008 13:00:32 GMT -5
I see no way Freeman doesn't start next year. Wright, Sapp, Freeman, Summers and eventually Monroe in my mind, though everyone will get a shot. To be honest, though, watching their play down the stretch, I don't think Freeman is the guy who could lose his starting spot unless he vounteers it. I don't think anyone does -- but he wasn't the one losing minutes. Freeman is a scorer -- so plus for sixth man when presumably a scorer goes off the court. But he's not a microwave/sparkplug type. Chris will be starting and he'll keep the pace up, but who's the fire off the bench? Agree completely. No way that Freeman doesn't start next year. In fact, I think that Freeman is probably our best scorer. He has the most natural scoring ability, and does it completely within the flow of the offense. As much as I love Sapp, I feel that he should be the one to come off the bench. He tends not to take care of the ball as well as he should, and he can't create like Chris Wright. Ideally, I'd like to see our starting lineup be Wright, Freeman, Summers, Monroe, and Macklin.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 28, 2008 13:21:48 GMT -5
The issue with Summers at the three is team depth. Assuming no departures aside from the seniors, where's the depth? (Note, I'm exlcuding Nikita and Omar. This may be completely faulty -- I like what I've seen of Wattad, but I think Nikita may be a RS Junior before he gets major minutes).
At G, we definitely have Chris, Sapp, Austin and Rivers. Clark seems ready to contribute as well.
At F/C, we have Summers, Mack, Monroe, Sims and Braswell.
I guess when I look at that and where minutes are likely to go, I think we go three guard a lot. One, that second line has almost no experience compared to the first. Second, if you play traditional, that's 5 guards for 2 positions and 5 forwards for three positions.
And the biggest thing is that not one of our forwards is capable of backing up Summers as a three. When Summers is off the floor, we're going three guard. I bet Macklin could defend but no be on offense -- and Monroe may get there but I don't think he's there now.
So while we could start that way -- reality is that for at least the 10 minutes Summers isn't playing, we're playing three guard.
Now factor in that Thompson is going to play his best players -- and that means that a straight Macklin/Sims at C doesn't seem likely to me. Seems to me we'll go very small at point with Summers playing PF and Monroe or Mack at C unless Henry is just awesome.
If you don't have two other bigs on the floor, you sure as heck aren't going to have Summers off the floor (i.e. no FOUR guard sets), so in addition to the time that Summers is on the bench, you've got the time that Summers is playing PF. My guess? 10 minutes.
So I think we're in three guard around twenty minutes a game next year even if we have two startable bigs. I guess the only way we wouldn't is if two fo Bras/Sims/Monroe are just dynamite -- and by dynamite, I mean better than the worst of Sapp/Wright/Freeman.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 28, 2008 13:24:32 GMT -5
I know I started this thread and all, but it just struck me that it really, really, really, really, REALLY sucks that we're talking about this and not the game the Hoyas have tonight.
Effing Davidson
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 28, 2008 13:34:35 GMT -5
Freeman had a very strong freshman year and should start for sure next season. I don't like Sapp coming off the bench at all. I want as many minutes as possible from him on the court.
I wonder about Macklin. Early in the year I was really optimistic about him having a breakthrough year but it didn't happen. On the other hand, he showed some nice stuff in the Davidson game and St. John's. To me he is a real key factor as to how far we go next year.
Finally, why all the hate on Summers on this board? Yeah, he didn't light it up, but he's only a sophmore (rising junior now, whatever) and he's got a lot of growth left.
What this team is going to miss in bunches is Ewing, as much for his fire and his playing skills.
Davidson still kills me too. We should have put them away. We had the talent to go back to the Final Four.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 28, 2008 13:44:10 GMT -5
Summers just needs to learn to finish at the rim. He shot 70-133 on twos this year, but 95% of those were within two feet -- which is great because that's good shot selection.
The issue is that he missed a ridiculous number of them. Its not an understatement to say he could improve by one two point shot every two games in terms of efficiency -- he could really have shot 85-133 easy -- that's around what Austin and Ewing did in fewer attempts.
The big difference would be then that he would probably drive more if he was having success and stop taking so many threes. He took 140 threes -- and was the worst of our big four perimeter shooters by FAR. If you look at our three attempts by person, you'll notice the right people are shooting the right amount relative to each other except Summers:
Wallace: 4.7 per game/45% Summers: 4.5/34% Sapp: 4.4/41% Freeman: 3.0/39% Ewing: 1.4/30% Rivers: 1.1/31%
Instead of shooting 4.5 3's a game, Summers needs to be heading to the rack more. Finishing better would encourage that.
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HoyaNJ5
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Post by HoyaNJ5 on Mar 28, 2008 13:44:15 GMT -5
I think that Summers would be better at the 3 than at the 4. SF, I take your point that there is no one to back him up at the three, but that doesn't mean we can't go with the line-up I proposed, but then go with a 3-guard set when we need to sub for Summers. I feel that Summers is more of a swing player, and putting a lot of the rebounding pressure on him really hurt us this year. Summers likes to drift around the 3 point line, and will occasionally take it to the hole, but he just never looked that comfortable at the 4.
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HOYAPLAYA
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Mar 28, 2008 14:04:45 GMT -5
I'm not trying to start an argument, but I just don't see how anyone can seriously consider a lineup next year where Sapp doesn't start. We will be young/inexperienced enough with what we are losing. Jessie will be our only SR and is coming off a season where he established himself as one of the better 3-pt shooters in the conference. I think the biggest mistake III made in the Davidson game was that he didn't play his experienced players enough. If I recall correctly, Jessie wasn't in major foul trouble (thanks again refs for ruining this week for me) and still only logged 24 minutes while Rivers didn't really add anything in the game. I think when you consider that we will probably play a more up tempo style next year, that there is no way that Jessie doesn't start. In my opinion, it will be Wright, Sapp, Freeman, Summers and Macklin. I'm hoping that Macklin improves and that Monroe comes off the bench all year. That would mean that assuming Summers stays for his sr year, that we would start a lineup of Wright, Freeman, Summers, Monroe and Macklin in 2009-2010 with Clark, Rivers, Thompson, Braswell, Sims coming off the bench. If that is our team and we don't press teams out of the gym, then I'll be one frustrated fan.
EDIT: If that is our team, I think we'll be predicted to finish at the top of the conference again. Obviously, the players have to perform but this is testament to the great recruiting job that JTIII and staff have done. Keep in mind, only a few programs can lose key players like we are this year and rebound so quickly. I think we have some on this board that are forgetting that we have a chance to be really good next year as well. A healthy Chris Wright, continuously improving Jessie Sapp, a more experienced/confident Austin Freeman, Summers actually being able to work on his game this summer, potential of Macklin and the freshman. I guess I just can't wait until next year, because I am still feeling cheated by how we went out this year. I'm not sure I'll be over this feeling until MM.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Mar 28, 2008 14:24:21 GMT -5
yes, exactly the kind of discussion i wanted to see.
i don't see freeman sitting either - sorry for the misdirection - so we could potentially be starting three guards (wright, sapp, freeman) a SF (summers) and a C (macklin) unless monroe is off the charts and gets the start, thereby giving us 3 G, SF, PF. BUT one thing we really need is rebounding .... can macklin bring this? can monroe, sims, or braswell? my point is that the traditional PG, SG, SF, PF, C model doesn't really apply to next year's team unless one of the freshman is crazy good.
either way, there was a point in the season when freeman was top 10 nationally in offensive efficiency (accdg to kenpom). he drops a couple pounds and concurrently adds a little more lift and quickness, and BOOM he's a big time threat. what i meant by mid-range game wasn't from 15, which you right to point out chep3, it was from 10-12 especially around the elbow or FT line. is he too short for this? probably. i'd prefer summers to develop that part of his game (which would make him DEADLY if he also learns to drive a little better) but in lieu of that, i can see freeman doing it with his skill set and intelligence, especially being the "biggest" of the three guards we'll likely see a lot of.
i also want to see summers take it in more and FINISH and i think he can. i felt like he settled for the 3 when, with a little more confidence, he could have taken it in for the And 1 attempt. maybe it was because he tended to miss more layups/putbacks/dunks than the distance from rim would suggest, but either way, he needs to shore that part of his game up.
as always, thanks for the stats SF.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 28, 2008 15:18:50 GMT -5
I was thinking about Two possible line-ups for next year:
Sapp Wright Freeman Summers Monroe
Sapp Freeman Summers Monroe Macklin
The second is my preference with Wright being the spark plug off the bench to provide energy and change of pace. My biggest concern is Freeman being able to play the 2. He played out of position this season at the 3 while Summers played out of position at the 4. But from what I saw, Freeman's ball handling really is not up to the standard I would expect for a 2 guard. Granted he did not have a lot of opportunities to demonstrate it, but I just did not feel at ease in the instances he would be asked to dribble significant amounts with pressure coming at him. I would assume every team that could press would try.
That is why, although I do not like it, I see the first option more likely. I do not want Summers to still be stuck at the 4. He does not give you the rebounding or any real play in the paint. I also do not like our options off the bench, Wright to me is a perfect guy to explode off the bench like Pat but as a playmaking guard.
I am extremely against any solution that leaves Jesse on the bench. He is now the team leader, he is all about taking and making the tough shots. No way he should be sitting on the bench, like Jay Bilas says, "the kid is just a winner." Jesse knows what it takes to win and he is not afraid to try to make plays to win the game. Wright will have his time to own this team at PG, but that will have to wait one more year.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 28, 2008 15:23:22 GMT -5
I was thinking about Two possible line-ups for next year: Sapp Sapp Wright Freeman Freeman Summers Summers Monroe Monroe Macklin The second is my preference with Wright being the spark plug off the bench to provide energy and change of pace. My biggest concern is Freeman being able to play the 2. He played out of position this season at the 3 while Summers played out of position at the 4. But from what I saw, Freeman's ball handling really is not up to the standard I would expect for a 2 guard. Granted he did not have a lot of opportunities to demonstrate it, but I just did not feel at ease in the instances he would be asked to dribble significant amounts with pressure coming at him. Macklin would also be the X factor, I am assuming he improves this offseason into a starter. That is why, although I do not like it, I see the first option more likely. I do not want Summers to still be stuck at the 4. He does not give you the rebounding or any real play in the paint. I also do not like our options off the bench, Wright to me is a perfect guy to explode off the bench like Pat but as a playmaking guard. I am extremely against any solution that leaves Jesse on the bench. He is now the team leader, he is all about taking and making the tough shots. No way he should be sitting on the bench, like Jay Bilas says, "the kid is just a winner." Jesse knows what it takes to win and he is not afraid to try to make plays to win the game. Wright will have his time to own this team at PG, but that will have to wait one more year. The only guy who benches Sapp is Sapp. He can do whatever he wants. I think he has .0000000000001% of not choosing to start so he won't likely be on the bench. Ideally, I'd want scenario 2 as well with Chris off the bench.
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