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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 26, 2008 15:53:52 GMT -5
I'll apologize when he apologizes for destroying the program.
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Feb 26, 2008 16:04:25 GMT -5
This is my favorite part of the article: "If a long-time servant and alumnus could be so easily denounced and destroyed by fellow alumni, what, for the rest of us, is the incentive to serve our school? After all, Esherick did a lot more work for Georgetown than many of the rest of us will, and many students and alumni are comfortable with the way he was treated."
This is sports, not philanthropy. If you aren't good, you shouldn't be have a job.
I'd love to read this guy's op-ed on the SSN scandal: "Lynne Hirschfeld did more for Georgetown than any of us will. She was able to organize 38,000 names and SSNs in one easy-to-use database."
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 26, 2008 16:06:00 GMT -5
destroy (di - stroi); verb
1. To ruin completely; spoil. Hmm, well, he didn't ruin the program completely, but he did spoil it for a while.
2. To tear down or break up; demolish. 3. To do away with; put an end to. 4. To kill. No, not really. The program was still in place, and still a part of the Big East Conference, if not a successful part.
5. To subdue or defeat completely; crush. Well, he certainly did that for fan support, but I wouldn't say he crushed the program.
6. To render useless or ineffective. And there we have it! Guilty as charged!!!!
;D
(by the way, I think we need a new emoticon for this board; a mustachioed emoticon!) ;D
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 26, 2008 16:08:27 GMT -5
To D. Pierce: Don't tell me how it was back then and how it should've been when you weren't there yourself. Don't call me classless. Don't tell me I was part of an "impassionate mob." Don't chastise the "selfish rich alumni" who pressured the administration to make the decisions that have allowed you to enjoy possibly 3 Sweet 16's in your undergraduate career. And don't tell me I need to apologize to the man who made my graduating class the first in over 30 years to never experience an NCAA tournament game.
That article is a disgrace and a slap in the face to me and countless other people who support Georgetown basketball, and shame on you for having the audacity to even think of what you wrote, never mind actually putting it to paper. The next time you're at Verizon Center, you owe every Hoya fan who has supported the team for at least the past 5 years an apology.
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hoyaclap
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Post by hoyaclap on Feb 26, 2008 16:09:46 GMT -5
I agree with 99% of what RDF said. However "The man had a good eye for talent" doesn't sit quite right with me. Personally, I was ready to forgive and - most importantly - forget the whole Esh regime ever happened after the first weekend of the '06 tournament. Heady times for a member of the Thompson-free class of '03 Then I heard the whole Joakim Noah affair. Where was his eye for talent on that one? That angried up my blood all over again. I was almost ready to move on again, and then this article comes out. I'm starting to think this is a good thing. We need something to get us riled up, Esherick style, every few years. Those who forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. Joakim Noah was a 6'5 non-descript forward when he was lobbying Georgetown for a spot. From what I remember, he shot up to 6'11" in a pretty short time and only at that point did he get big time looks (summer after his Junior year) Thats why no one was recruiting him until then, including us. Maybe Joakim (Frenchy to some) had a chip on his shoulder because he thought he could play at high d1 level before he grew, but that was far from true.
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paranoya
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Post by paranoya on Feb 26, 2008 16:11:58 GMT -5
I have been a Gtown fan my whole life. I waited my whole life to go to Gtown and during at least one of my years go to the tournament. I graduated in '05 and never got to live my life long dream because my 4 years were the worst 4 years for basketball at Gtown since '73 or '74. I blame Esherick for most of this so I don't want people telling me why I shouldn't have ill feelings towards this man, so sit on that and twirl Pierce.
And ditto St. Pete, I will apologize when I get an apology from that dream-wrecker.
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DrumsGoBang
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Post by DrumsGoBang on Feb 26, 2008 16:12:11 GMT -5
We all know that St. Pete is the real destroyer. Must Smash basketball and dreams!!!!!!
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 26, 2008 16:25:35 GMT -5
I have been a Gtown fan my whole life. I waited my whole life to go to Gtown and during at least one of my years go to the tournament. I graduated in '05 and never got to live my life long dream because my 4 years were the worst 4 years for basketball at Gtown since '73 or '74. I blame Esherick for most of this so I don't want people telling me why I shouldn't have ill feelings towards this man, so sit on that and twirl Pierce. And ditto St. Pete, I will apologize when I get an apology from that dream-wrecker. You probably shouldn't base your life long dreams on the skills and good fortunes of complete strangers who take part in ventures that you have absolutely no personal control over. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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paranoya
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by paranoya on Feb 26, 2008 16:29:58 GMT -5
I have been a Gtown fan my whole life. I waited my whole life to go to Gtown and during at least one of my years go to the tournament. I graduated in '05 and never got to live my life long dream because my 4 years were the worst 4 years for basketball at Gtown since '73 or '74. I blame Esherick for most of this so I don't want people telling me why I shouldn't have ill feelings towards this man, so sit on that and twirl Pierce. And ditto St. Pete, I will apologize when I get an apology from that dream-wrecker. You probably shouldn't base your life long dreams on the skills and good fortunes of complete strangers who take part in ventures that you have absolutely no personal control over. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. .... and you say this as you are on a talk board getting way into posts about a team we are all way too into and base a large portion of all of our lives around from Nov. - April. Oh and I see we're getting into a witty remark contest?
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Feb 26, 2008 16:33:57 GMT -5
I understand people not liking Esherick as a coach. He was clearly a failure at that.
But saying that he was a bad person because he was a bad coach? I'm sorry, I think that's going too far. Just because we shouldn't admire him doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect him.
Also remember that losing isn't the worst thing a coach can do. As bad of a game coach as he was, Esherick didn't bring national shame upon the program with scandals and violations. He ran a clean program and recruited good kids. The one and only thing he failed to do was win.
Did he deserve to be fired? Absolutely. Does he deserve to be permanently ostracized from the school? I don't think so.
I don't think anybody needs to apologize to anybody. I think the University has done the right thing in extending olive branches to Esherick, and it's disappointing that he hasn't accepted them. However, if he ever does accept one I think the Hoya basketball community should welcome him back into the family. After all, he is still a Hoya. If he wants to sit in the stands and cheer on our current team I see no reason why he should be booed for it.
I remember last year Darrel Owens showed up at a game and got a very warm reception from students and alumns, even though the year before he'd had the potential game winning shot the year before against Florida and missed it. People were able to look past his failure and give him the respect he deserved.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 26, 2008 16:35:06 GMT -5
First, I do not think it was all that bad a column - it expresses an opinion and the writer is welcome to it. As for quibbles about factual basis, who cares if Billy Packer said he thought the program was irrelevant? Quibbles about factual basis??Dan, You call leaving out the most important party of the story, the Esh rant that led directly to his departure, "quibbling about facts"? I think it was not only a bad column, but an irresponsible one. Why? Because it presents only one side of the story, yet still draws a conclusion that the writer suggests is "absolute". It calls for Georgetown to apologize to Esh.... but ignores the fast that Esh is the one directly responsible for what happened. I hope someone can track down the story and quotes from "the Rant".
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hoyaclap
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Post by hoyaclap on Feb 26, 2008 16:58:41 GMT -5
To D. Pierce: Don't tell me how it was back then and how it should've been when you weren't there yourself. Don't call me classless. Don't tell me I was part of an "impassionate mob." Don't chastise the "selfish rich alumni" who pressured the administration to make the decisions that have allowed you to enjoy possibly 3 Sweet 16's in your undergraduate career. And don't tell me I need to apologize to the man who made my graduating class the first in over 30 years to never experience an NCAA tournament game. That article is a disgrace and a slap in the face to me and countless other people who support Georgetown basketball, and shame on you for having the audacity to even think of what you wrote, never mind actually putting it to paper. The next time you're at Verizon Center, you owe every Hoya fan who has supported the team for at least the past 5 years an apology. Rockaway: Mr. Nixon owes you NOTHING.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 26, 2008 17:01:40 GMT -5
I understand people not liking Esherick as a coach. He was clearly a failure at that. But saying that he was a bad person because he was a bad coach? I'm sorry, I think that's going too far. Just because we shouldn't admire him doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect him. Also remember that losing isn't the worst thing a coach can do. As bad of a game coach as he was, Esherick didn't bring national shame upon the program with scandals and violations. He ran a clean program and recruited good kids. The one and only thing he failed to do was win. Did he deserve to be fired? Absolutely. Does he deserve to be permanently ostracized from the school? I don't think so. I don't think anybody needs to apologize to anybody. I think the University has done the right thing in extending olive branches to Esherick, and it's disappointing that he hasn't accepted them. However, if he ever does accept one I think the Hoya basketball community should welcome him back into the family. After all, he is still a Hoya. If he wants to sit in the stands and cheer on our current team I see no reason why he should be booed for it. I remember last year Darrel Owens showed up at a game and got a very warm reception from students and alumns, even though the year before he'd had the potential game winning shot the year before against Florida and missed it. People were able to look past his failure and give him the respect he deserved. This is sort of disingenuous. Darrell Owens missed a game-winning shot. It happens. He didn't commit seventeen turnovers and yell during postgame interviews that he should be playing forty minutes a game. Also, Owens is a kid. I do agree that, if he shows up and cheers on GU, no one should boo him. Same if he shows up at events. But I'm also big on owning up to your mistakes. For that, and given Esh's rant, I can't respect him until he indicates some degree of contrition.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 26, 2008 17:04:07 GMT -5
Quibbles about factual basis??Dan, You call leaving out the most important part y of the story, the Esh rant that led directly to his departure, "quibbling about facts"? SirSaxa, no I do (and did) not. The opinion column served its purpose - to get people talking about it. You do not have to agree with the writer's premise to agree with that. I note that you conveniently ignored this part of my original post: I think the University made the right decision at the right time with regard to the coaching position. I do not think the University did Craig Esherick wrong in any way. ..in your zeal to lump me in with the writer. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Hoya06
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Post by Hoya06 on Feb 26, 2008 17:07:12 GMT -5
I kinda wish this site was search-able from Google News. That way when Esh inevitably Google's himself today, he would have something to read!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2008 17:11:22 GMT -5
But I'm also big on owning up to your mistakes. For that, and given Esh's rant, I can't respect him until he indicates some degree of contrition. Should John Thompson Jr. apologize for handpicking Craig? Or does he get a pass because of his son? If you can't respect him unless he apologizes, then don't respect him. But to think he's gonna come groveling to you or any of us, that's asinine.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 26, 2008 17:17:42 GMT -5
Quibbles about factual basis??Dan, You call leaving out the most important part y of the story, the Esh rant that led directly to his departure, "quibbling about facts"? SirSaxa, no I do (and did) not. The opinion column served its purpose - to get people talking about it. You do not have to agree with the premise to agree with that. This always frustrates me. Yes, it stirred debate and reaction. But the debate and reaction it stirred seemed based on false premises. For example - I can say Georgetown football will be better than USC next year. It gets people talking about it, even though it's wrong. What's worse is that the writer rips people who took a relatively reasoned stand on a coach who ripped their basketball program's heart out and jumped up and down on it while cackling. It's like arguments that the United States started the Cold War against a defenseless USSR that just wanted to protect itself. And when people call him on it ... "oh, I just wanted to get people talking". If you want to have credibility, mean and research what you say. Cam: Esherick, at least initially, didn't come in and destroy everything. USA Today even had an article on him as a hot young coach. And JT didn't go on every single media outlet agreeing with Esherick and saying that Esh should be the coach for the next thirty years.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 26, 2008 17:32:40 GMT -5
To D. Pierce: Don't tell me how it was back then and how it should've been when you weren't there yourself. Don't call me classless. Don't tell me I was part of an "impassionate mob." Don't chastise the "selfish rich alumni" who pressured the administration to make the decisions that have allowed you to enjoy possibly 3 Sweet 16's in your undergraduate career. And don't tell me I need to apologize to the man who made my graduating class the first in over 30 years to never experience an NCAA tournament game. That article is a disgrace and a slap in the face to me and countless other people who support Georgetown basketball, and shame on you for having the audacity to even think of what you wrote, never mind actually putting it to paper. The next time you're at Verizon Center, you owe every Hoya fan who has supported the team for at least the past 5 years an apology. Rockaway: Mr. Nixon owes you NOTHING. Well thought-out argument. You've convinced me I'm wrong. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Feb 26, 2008 17:37:28 GMT -5
I remember last year Darrel Owens showed up at a game and got a very warm reception from students and alumns, even though the year before he'd had the potential game winning shot the year before against Florida and missed it. People were able to look past his failure and give him the respect he deserved. Don't want to sound overly critical -- probably just a poor choice of words, but I don't associate DJ Owens with the word "failure" at all. Here's a guy who was academically ineligible at the start of his career and went on to be a solid basketball player and a serious student who holds two degrees from Georgetown. I think Owens got a hand because he was a classy guy who played hard and as a senior helped put that Hoya team (still one of my all time favorites) in the Sweet 16, not because people were able to look past his failure.
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Post by BurleithBeast on Feb 26, 2008 17:50:32 GMT -5
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