Jack
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Post by Jack on Feb 26, 2008 10:09:22 GMT -5
He does seem to make some assumptions about how the end came about. No one knows whether he was offerred some other opportunity at the university, or what he was told before beginning his recruiting trip, or to what extent alumni were involved in the decision (I had been more of the belief that people stepped up to buy out Esherick, rather than people threatening to withhold donations). I suspect we will never see a definitive account of how Esherick's tenure finally met its demise. But by leaving out the "30-yr decree" he does conveniently skip over one of the most important aspects of the timeline. The situation seemed poorly handled at the time, but it is possible in some respects that Esh left Jack no choice.
All that said, I agree with Dan that the personal venom directed toward Esh over the years is unfair and unseemly, and for that, he deserves some apology.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 26, 2008 10:10:32 GMT -5
Craig was invited to attend the 100th Anniversary Basketball gala last year, and declined to come. That's just one example, but there are others. To argue that he's not being welcomed back is incorrect. Significant distinction: the University / AD invited him back. The basketball supporters' community did not and has not. He either is still bitter about being fired and chose not to come or is not willing to be subjected to some drunken alum castigating him in a public forum yet again (and you know it would have happened). We will never know which. If it is the latter I cannot blame him. To give him some credit, perhaps he realized he would just be a distraction and decided not to come because of that.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 26, 2008 10:11:59 GMT -5
Craig was invited to attend the 100th Anniversary Basketball gala last year, and declined to come. That's just one example, but there are others. To argue that he's not being welcomed back is incorrect. This is debatable, but do you think he'd be practically boo-ed out of the room? An invitation doesn't mean a whole lot if the University and its supporters virtually hate you.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 26, 2008 10:20:43 GMT -5
The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle. Esherick was not solely to blame for the losses -- as many of us have noted before, there were issues and problems presented in the waning days of JT's coaching tenure that were left in Esh's lap. Esh also did not actively try to sabotage the program -- I'm sure we all believe the man was doing the best that he could. And he did have some successes -- they were just overshadowed by his losses and mistakes. Ultimately, the circumstances of Esherick's departure or JTIII's hiring shouldn't matter. What should matter is this:
"Craig Esherick served as the bridge between JT Jr. and JT III. He took over the program amid John Thompson's abrupt departure and coached the team through the early 2000s, where led the team to a NCAA Sweet 16 championship as well as the NIT semifinals. While Coach Esherick was ultimately dismissed and replaced by JT III, he left his successor with two promising recruits that proved to be keys to Georgetown's resurgence, in Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert."
That's it -- that's the story on Craig. I don't see why people feel a need to either praise or villify him. He was all too human, just like the rest of us.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Feb 26, 2008 10:32:09 GMT -5
Pierce Nixon is the same writer who caused the storm between the Hoya and the NAACP last semester, I guess he likes to stir the pot and play devils advocate (even if he's being serious)
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Post by williambraskyiii on Feb 26, 2008 10:33:16 GMT -5
Well he is a edited.
Mod Note: 2 minutes for roughing.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 26, 2008 10:33:17 GMT -5
I think Jack's point above bears repeating. Today's students have as much knowledge of Craig Esherick as they do about Leo O'Donovan or Juan Gonzalez--names from the past which elicit passion from recent alumni but which mean little or nothing to their college experience.
D.P. Nixon is a good writer and not afraid to swim upstream on issues. He is probably aware that such topics can get folks like us talking, but his audience (who all arrived in the JT3 era) simply know the Craig Esherick name and little else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2008 10:34:06 GMT -5
Craig was invited to attend the 100th Anniversary Basketball gala last year, and declined to come. That's just one example, but there are others. To argue that he's not being welcomed back is incorrect. This is debatable, but do you think he'd be practically boo-ed out of the room? An invitation doesn't mean a whole lot if the University and its supporters virtually hate you. Partly replying to this and partly to McQ above: No, I don't think he would have been booed out of that room. In fact, I think it's laughable to even consider that. I was there that night, and the atmosphere was so positive and so welcoming. Nor do I think some drunk alum would have castigated him. No matter who sent the invitation, that room WAS the basketball supporters' community, and I would be willing to bet that those in the room would have been able to bury the hatchet and welcome him warmly. Clearly, I'm less cynical than some others on that front. Plus, if it's not the University/AD inviting him, who? Is Hoya Blue going to have a "Give Craig a Hug" event to close the door on this? In the end, Craig will continue to get opportunities to come back, and it's up to him to accept an invitation at some point and trust that people aren't so cold-hearted as to treat him like crap. No one's going to organize a prayer breakfast for him.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 26, 2008 10:42:16 GMT -5
Craig Esherick was an awful, awful, AWFUL head basketball coach with a completely unfounded arrogance. It was the latter that cost him his job (thankfully) and not the former.
This guy Nixon makes a juvenile, simple-minded argument in his column. Cut him some slack because he's a college kid - the column wasn't that poorly written - but he's got some growing up to do.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Feb 26, 2008 10:43:54 GMT -5
This kid is an edited. He in conflating two separate issues.
1. Jack DeGioia's decision to give Esherick a vote of confidence, and then fire him.
2. Hoya alums' dissatisfaction and demand to fire Esh.
If anyone screwed up, it's Jack. Why he would give the coach a vote of confidence after such a terrible season is mind-boggling. I am assuming that Jack never consulted with alums who knew about or cared about basketball or simply ignored them because most basketball fans wanted Esh out. That was a mistake. The basketball program is one of the most important and perhaps the most consistent connection alums have with the University. Alums should be included in the conversation. And we certainly are not a fan base that had unrealistic expectations-we just wanted to be relevant and compete for a tourney berth every year. Those are hardly unreasonable demands as far as these things go.
These mistakes were made by Jack and Lang, not alums. And unlike other programs, Georgetowns fans and alums can hardly be described as a mob. Esherisck did deserve better than being given the support of the University and then fired, but the program should not have suffered any further just because Jack made an error in judgment. I hope Jack did apologize on behalf of the University. Other than that, what else could or should have been done?
And there is this author's credibility. Was this kid even on campus when any of these events happened? Was he even a fan of Georgetown basketball at this point? And what kind of name is D. Pierce? He's not a lawyer. Or anyone important enough to change his name just yet.
Mod note: your points can be well-made without the name calling.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 26, 2008 10:47:23 GMT -5
D. Pierce Nixon (seriously? How bad can the D be if you're going by Pierce?) There's some good substance. Thanks for the contribution to the topic. So, you're snipping one line from my post -- deleting all content -- then criticizing me for not having content? Jelousy will get you nowhere, hatred dude. (In all seriousness, your defense makes it seem as if your are D. Pierce or know him. You should probably just reaize this column had no research behind it. No interviews. No reading of newspaper articles of the time. Not bad writing -- just lazy.)
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Post by sbgorms on Feb 26, 2008 10:50:28 GMT -5
Why is someone who was in high school at the time Esherick's firing occurred bringing this up four years after the fact? And in doing so he uses language that completely distorts the events that occurred and presents as fact some things that are far from it.
I won't argue that it was far from an ideal process that occurred with Esherick getting fired (certainly not the firing itself though), but this column is even more ridiculous than that process.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Feb 26, 2008 10:55:15 GMT -5
1. I think it's odd that this thread grew to this length without mention of the infamous "Unrealistic Expectation." Esh coached in the shadow of an administration that did not care about the basketball program. For all practical purposes, he was meeting the expectations of management at the time (a compelling argument can be offered up that the administration still does not understand what the success of the program under JT3 means to the overall "health" of the university).
2. IIRC, I believe we continue to pay Esherick until the end of next season, right? If so, he no doubt makes much more money not-coaching Georgetown than he could command for coaching at any mid-major program. FYI, I think we are currently scheduled to stop paying Pops sometime in the second term of (Chelsea) Clinton administration.
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Post by dajuan on Feb 26, 2008 10:56:35 GMT -5
Partly replying to this and partly to McQ above: No, I don't think he would have been booed out of that room. In fact, I think it's laughable to even consider that. I was there that night, and the atmosphere was so positive and so welcoming. Nor do I think some drunk alum would have castigated him. No matter who sent the invitation, that room WAS the basketball supporters' community, and I would be willing to bet that those in the room would have been able to bury the hatchet and welcome him warmly. Clearly, I'm less cynical than some others on that front. Plus, if it's not the University/AD inviting him, who? Is Hoya Blue going to have a "Give Craig a Hug" event to close the door on this? Agreed. The program is in a good enough place right now and that room was (from what I understand) classy enough that I think they would have welcomed anyone who ever was associated with Georgetown basketball. What would the drunken heckler yell? 'You destroyed the program!'? That's clearly not accurate. 'You set the program back two years!'? Doesn't have much bite. 'You never would have gotten this much out of Jeff and Roy!'? This would just remind people that he brought us Jeff and Roy. As much as some of us are quick to point out his failings as a coach or to say that his firing was overdue, no one denies his effort and commitment to Georgetown basketball.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 26, 2008 10:56:55 GMT -5
Nixon, really seems to love to write contraversial articles. I don't know if he jsut strongly believes contraversial things or just likes to stir things up, but this is his MO it seems. He always comes of as a dick in his articles, like he knows better than everyone else.
Georgetown had every right to fire esherick. Yes people , even for years after he left, had an unnecessarly level of vitrol for him. But honestly i think at this point most of that is gone.
Does anyone actually still hate esherick blindly?
Everyone still thinks he was a bad coach and needed to go, but i don't think anyone actually hates him. Time heals all wounds. I seriously doubt anyone would boo esherick if he showed up at an event or would be a jerk to him if they met him on the street.
For some reason nixon takes offense that alumni would lobby to have one of their own fired. As if we should have blind loyalty because he was a double hoya and served well as an assistant coach for so long.
I don't know if it's true but I remember reading or hearing that esherick was fired via phone while on a recruiting trip. If that's true, then maybe he deserves an apology for the manner in which he was informed about his termination, but he is owed that apology by jack and not the alumni base. And i don't know for a fact that that story is true. If it's not then he is owed no apology.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 26, 2008 10:57:24 GMT -5
This is pretty mind-boggling. I don't even know where to begin. The fact that the writer probably never met him is a start. Beyond that, the fact that he likely never attended a game that Esh coached. SirSaxa hit most of the key factual points at the top of the thread, but this really Editedes me off. I'm glad Nixon's sorry, but I don't know what he wants. Does he think we should have kept Esh on in a coach emeritus position and kept paying him for doing nothing? That's a great use of Georgetown's limited resources. Or we should have just not fired him? Or perhaps "promoted" him to AD? And evidently we're supposed to name a building after him. Or at the very least have the Craig Esherick Urinal at McDonough Arena. The sequence of support to firing was odd, and should have been handled better, but it is about number 17,000 on the list of things that have been mishandled at Georgetown. Esherick failed. I was an Esherick apologist for too long, but started to waver during 2002, my senior year. Instead of building, which Esherick did to some degree during his first 3 years, things regressed to ugly very quickly. In the end, he did not succeed in his job, and was fired for it. I don't think anyone called him a dirtbag on the way out the door, tried to humiliate him (at least no one in the administration), or anything else. Yes, he spent 25+ years of his life as a Hoya, but in the end he couldn't do the job he was paid to do. Nixon's attitude is the kind of thinking that scares me about Georgetown. Yes, I value the Georgetown family and I value it greatly, but that doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to incompetence and failure. If you are paid to do a job at Georgetown and you miserably fail to accomplish your goals (or is it your expectations?), you should be fired, I don't care how many times over you are a Hoya. Rewarding incompetence is a dangerous game. I just can't wrap my mind around the reasoning for this column. And we won't even get wrapped up in how alumni are 'bitter,' Esh was 'venerable,' Alums 'bullied' DeGioia, Esherick had 'modest success,' the administration 'seemingly lied,' Alums 'denounced and destroyed' Esh, whose 'innumberable contributions are obscured by a bizzare notion that he was some villanous athletic saboteur.' And my favorite..."Esherick fell victim to the whims of an impassioned mob." And there it goes...my brain just exploded. I couldn't agree with Gorms more. It's laughable for people who didn't suffer through those dark years to, on the one hand enjoy the beauty of a packed Verizon Center, active alumni organization, frenzied student section and renewed national attention...and then deride the alumni and student pressure that enabled all that by forcing the administration to prune. You seriously are some spoiled brats. Esherick years were a joke. I went to Saturday games where there were at most 200 students in attendance only to see us get pounded by West Virginia. I never saw us beat UConn. Not once. The best achievement I was able to see was a 3OT NIT game in Charlottesville. I stormed the court after we beat Louisville...a team that was unranked and barely .500. Then in the midst of that mediocrity, the AD told us it was unreasonable to expect to make the tournament every year and Esh declared that he would outlast us all. Oh, and his brother spewed venom at the fans for disrespecting his brother. That's how sad it was. PS Hey, Esh, thanks for ignoring Shan Foster's boyhood dream to attend GU and focusing on that JC transfer that never materialized. Really worked out.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 26, 2008 11:12:18 GMT -5
1. I think it's odd that this thread grew to this length without mention of the infamous "Unrealistic Expectation." Esh coached in the shadow of an administration that did not care about the basketball program. For all practical purposes, he was meeting the expectations of management at the time (a compelling argument can be offered up that the administration still does not understand what the success of the program under JT3 means to the overall "health" of the university). Hey! I did mention it previously in this thread, but no one noticed it because I don't have 1000+ posts to my name. Anyways, I think its clear from how easily the pot is stirred up here and the number of attacks on Nixon for having the gall to feel sorry for the guy, that clearly a lot of alums still do HATE Esherick. If he attended an alumni event, he might not be booed (although I think he likely would by a few) but it would certainly create a terribly unconfortable situation for all on hand. If I were Esh, I wouldn't attend such an event. I really don't think Nixon said anything that crazy in his article, merely that a GU alum and long time coach was treated poorly. You can dispute whether this is the case or not, but the fact is that the main representative of our community, De Gioya, offered his firm support one day, and not long after unceremoniously showed him the door. By the way, how do all of you know that Nixon wasn't a fan of the Hoyas before he was a student? I don't know the kid, but he could well be the son of an alum, and therefore was born into the community or just a long term fan.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Feb 26, 2008 11:13:19 GMT -5
Craig was invited to attend the 100th Anniversary Basketball gala last year, and declined to come. That's just one example, but there are others. To argue that he's not being welcomed back is incorrect. This is debatable, but do you think he'd be practically boo-ed out of the room? An invitation doesn't mean a whole lot if the University and its supporters virtually hate you. I don't think there is any way that people would have been rude to him in that venue, D. Pierce.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 26, 2008 11:14:53 GMT -5
Re: the "drunken heckler"
I was not raising the specter of a heckler yelling at the event. I was there too and agree that was unlikely. Him being booed - also unlikely. I do not agree that a personal confrontation by someone who had too much to drink (very easily accomplished that night) was unlikely to happen - it happened to his family with regularity at the games. I am fairly certain Mr. Esherick would not have wanted to put himself in the position with that possibility.
There were plenty of invited players who did not attend the event. Are we going to castigate them too?
As for the need for a 'group hug' or 'prayer breakfast' or some sort of formal apology - those sort of ideas are unnecessary. He'll come back to the community at some point, or not. Whether he does is somewhat irrelevant. The program has moved on.
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rjmaxx
Member
the REAL Illest
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Post by rjmaxx on Feb 26, 2008 11:16:06 GMT -5
Well, seems as though Mr. D. Pierce Nixon VIII accomplished his goal and now has additional resume material for a post GU writing career. In the "light fuse, run away, enjoy" era of journalism - where most media wants their writers to put something out there that will invite comments on their site (more eyeballs = more advertising dollars), he has succeeded. Although personally, I haven't bought any of the GU apparel/Duke crew team portraits/etc advertised on the top banner here. Come to think of it, though, the average Esherick-related thread length is probably 3-4 pages, so maybe Mr. DPN VIII has a ways to go as a vitriol-inviting journalist . And I do like how the Green and Hibbert recruitments are always brought up. Good on ya Craig for bringing them into the mix, but sadly, we'll never know how they would have run the "toss the ball around the perimeter and jack up a shot with 2 on the clock" offense. [*** Realizes he just invited comments about some of our recent games, sighs... ***] He wasn't a government employee. Let's move on.
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