J. Rivers..

[mjc]

Whats up with this guy.. Im sure he is a nice kid but he does not contribute and does not have the ability to compete...obviously his dad is tied in here..anyone want to elaborate?

[HoyaFanNY]

has anyone ever been nominated for 'most idiotic post' with their first post? if not, i think we have a winner now. hifi has some competition. ;D

[mjc]

you never answered the Question...unless this was discussed before...I live in pittsburgh the couldnt make my cyo team

[theexorcist]

Cough, Syracuse game, cough, lockdown defense, cough, there aren't many other guard options unless Jansen starts playing more minutes, cough.

[Deleted]

Hi mjc

I think you are dead wrong. The Hoyas lead the NCAA in field goal percentage defense. That is why our record is as good as it is. Granted, Rivers is not much of an offensive threat. However, he excels in two important aspects of the Hoyas game. Defense and rebounding.

What did you think of his lockdown on Scottie Reynolds on Villanova's last posession?? In the Syracuse game, he went head to head with Flynn in the second half (who was killing us) and shut him down.

If you don't think that that has some value, what can I say.

Jerry

[strummer8526]

Feb 13, 2008 8:06:44 GMT -5 mjc said:

you never answered the Question...unless this was discussed before...I live in pittsburgh the couldnt make my cyo team

What is this, the 18th Century where we just capitalize random Nouns? Or can I jut CapITALize whatEveR i want?

Anyway. In Pittsburgh, "the" (I assume meaning Rivers) COULD make your CYO team and he'd probably kick you around from Pittsburgh to...somewhere better than Pittsburgh.

I hated Rivers last year. This year, he's made a lot of improvements. He's no worse than our other guards at breaking the press. He can occasionally spot up for a shot, he's hit several floaters the last few games (which, although not smart shots, at least went in). And he can guard the better guards that we face.

Also, he and Macklin seem to have a repoire on the court. When Macklin gets more time, I think Rivers will be more effective feeding the center.

[GIGAFAN99]

All anyone has to know about Rivers is he scores 2 points a game...and we're 18-5 without him.

Where are the old guys to drone on about Gene Smith?

[DanMcQ]

The continued veiled implications on this board that somehow Rivers' playing time has something to do with some "influence" his father has on the Hoya coach are ridiculous and not founded on any objective evidence.

Why on earth would a coach who has a player (PEJr) whose father he has known since he was a child (PESr, who has publicly and privately lobbied for more PT for his son) and whose son was taken out of the starting lineup to come off the bench let any parent's wishes influence his decisions on PT?

To suggest otherwise is not supported by any evidence and is frankly insulting to both the player AND the coach.

[PopeJohn2]

1. rivers is just a sophomore
2. rivers plays great d
3. rivers has decent handle
4. rivers understands the offense
5. not everyone can be, nor should be, the go to guy on offense
6. rivers plays great d
7. rivers stroke is much improved this year (excluding the few chunkers vs memphis)
8. you wanna run wallace and sapp for 40 minutes each???
9. without rivers we may not have beaten unc/nova and probably several others
10. it is the neophyte that judges a players based on points scored
11. rivers plays great d

[Hordac]

Rivers is definitely limited in his skillset. He looked silly throwing the ball away the last 2 games when pressured. He gets too much credit for his perceived good defense. He played good defense on Scottie on the last possession but Scottie blew right by him on the prior possession to tie the game. He has taken ill-advised jumpshots the last couple of games including an airball against Villanova. He's a tough, physical kid but if Chris Wright were healthy, he wouldn't get nearly as many minutes. He's a role player at best, a career backup.

[Hoya TMF]

no one is disputing that he's a role player, but it's really stupid to minimize his impact on this team. it's as though everyone is expected to be a star or contribute in the same way. that would make our team one dimensional. rivers plays hard every game. provides a rest for our starting back court and plays great defense on the opposing team's best guard. maybe reynolds burned baby doc all game, jsut like flynn burned us for most of the cuse game, but who did coach put in when we needed a stop? rivers. we got the stop both games and won both games. this year we've had a lot of close wins, and anyone expecting this team to go far in the tourney knows that we'll be in some late one possession games. rivers is our best defensive perimeter player and in that regard could be the difference between an early exit or a deep run.

clearly rivers is the star of this team, but honestly, how could you have a bigger impact, than being asked to stop the opposing team's best player on the alst possession of a tight game? basketball is a team sport and everyone has a role. guys like ewing and rivers may not start and may make us cringe on offense sometimes, but defense is what has been winning games for us this season. if we're relying on jeremiah to score in order for us to get W's then we've already lost. he's a role player, but he's been a prett good one for us in that role.

[Hoya TMF]

clearly rivers is NOT the star of the team. oops.

[theexorcist]

Feb 13, 2008 9:10:25 GMT -5 Hordac said:

Rivers is definitely limited in his skillset. He looked silly throwing the ball away the last 2 games when pressured. He gets too much credit for his perceived good defense. He played good defense on Scottie on the last possession but Scottie blew right by him on the prior possession to tie the game. He has taken ill-advised jumpshots the last couple of games including an airball against Villanova. He's a tough, physical kid but if Chris Wright were healthy, he wouldn't get nearly as many minutes. He's a role player at best, a career backup.

Yup. My favorite was when he tried to dribble in front of all of the South Florida players who had developed some pseudo-Maginot Line.

And, yes, if Wright were here, he'd be getting fewer minutes - but then again, so would everybody else.

If you remember last year, his shots were awful (Cincy dared him to shoot), so he's come a long way in a year. He's still improving, so I'd hold off on describing him as a bust just yet.

[Filo]

Feb 13, 2008 7:50:01 GMT -5 HoyaFanNY said:

has anyone ever been nominated for 'most idiotic post' with their first post? if not, i think we have a winner now. hifi has some competition. ;D

I'll second the nomination, on the timing of the thread, alone.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

ask Ty Lawson how good a defender he is.

[hoyalove4ever]

I am willing to put myself out there and say that I would be shocked if Rivers doesn't play in the NBA. His defense will certainly be at the level in a few years (if it isn't already) and his offense will continue to improve. He is a very good athlete who pushes the ball up the floor in a north-south direction (as opposed to the east-west movements of Sapp) and forces the opposing D to stop the ball. He plays within the system and he now has the ability to knock down some shots. All in all, he is a very solid player who will continue to improve. We really rely on his D right now. He is going to be the first guy off the bench next year and he'll start as a senior.

Leave Rivers alone. He is a huge part of this team and he will continue as such for the foreseeable future...even after Wright returns and we add new recruits.

[guru]

Rivers has won two games for the Hoyas this season with clutch defensive stops - as good as a buzzer beating shot to anyone who knows basketball.

mjc, go huddle up with foeva and eighties and figure out which identity you guys would like to use today.

[EasyEd]

Question: apparently Jesse had some injury in the last game. If he cannot play against Cuse, who's going to start? I'd bet it would be Rivers.

[jumbo7676]

Shocked if Rivers doesn't play in the NBA? I am going to defend Rivers against the haters on the board, but even I think that is just a bit optomistic.

Sapp plays the most minutes of the three (Sapp, Wallace, Rivers). If you project where Wallace and Rivers will be when they match Sapp's minutes, based on what they have done so far this season, you get Sapp with 61 turnovers, Wallace with 37, and Rivers with 29. I know Rivers doesn't get as many touches as those other guys and when he does he's not asked to handle the ball as much, but I think it is at least fair to say that Rivers does not turn the ball over as much as people think he does. It's just that when he does, his turnovers tend to look a lot worse.

Through 23 games, Sapp has 61 turnovers. He had 67 in 37 games last year. If we're talking about the Hoyas problem with turnovers, that conversation needs to start with Sapp.

Someone posted that Rivers has had some bad turnovers in the last two games due to the pressure of the press. Rivers has 3 turnovers in the past 2 games. Wallace has 8.

I think people have been too hard on Rivers, myself included. Please don't read too into this posting and think that I am trying to say that Rivers is as good or better than Sapp and Wallace, because that is not even close to teh case. When you look at points scored, shooting percentages, and ability to hit clutch shots it is no contest. I'm just saying that it appears everyone is overly critical of Rivers and need to lighten up on the kid. He plays 20 minutes per game and is a significant part of a top 10, Big East leading team.

[ExcitableBoy]

Feb 13, 2008 9:47:34 GMT -5 hoyalove4ever said:

He is a very good athlete who pushes the ball up the floor in a north-south direction (as opposed to the east-west movements of Sapp)

East-west is a good thing at Verizon, where the baskets are on the east and west ends of the arena.