HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 6, 2008 6:53:31 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2008 9:17:42 GMT -5
How - in gods name - does this help the Suns? Talk about having to slow their offense down, can Shaq even make it up the court any more? I can't see how trading Marion (a near PERFECT fit for their system) for a SLOW, aging center with bad legs and little-to-no game left in the system improves their squad. At all. They're first in the conference fer chrissake!!!
And how - in gods name - have things regressed with Marion so much in the past two seasons?!?! Sure, there are players who could better fit his role, but they ain't cheap. And how does Shaq fill that role exactly?!? Ugh.
This is ridiculous.
On a side note, who have the Lakers passed with their fleecing of the Grizz for Gasol? Gasol for Crittenden, Kwame and two likely low 1st round picks?!? WOW... didn't even have to give up Bynum. I'd venture to say everyone except Dallas and (for now) Phoenix. Yes, that includes the Spurs (for now).
EDIT: I'm still waiting to see if this Hornets thing is for real. Chris Paul is ridiculous, but I'm not sold on Tyson Chandler, David West and Peja being a force to be reckoned with...
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Feb 6, 2008 11:20:13 GMT -5
Steve Kerr could be approaching Isaiah/Billy King status with this one--this is AWFUL move for Suns. They are obsessed with Spurs--but to get to the Spurs you'll have to beat a team who without Shaq you weren't much better then--and now with him--you will be worse.
O'Neal is D-O-N-E. He brings no defensive presence. He changes how Phoenix's best players play. Nash will now have lanes plugged up with O'Neal and Stoudemire liking to play close to hoop and it'll draw more defense--problem is your shooter is Raja Bell and Grant Hill--who is an overrated/over the hill slasher who can't shoot. Stoudemire is Suns best post player--does he now become KG-like and play 15 feet out?
Last but not least--your team is an awful defensive team--so you add the worst defensive piece you could add. With scoring teams in West--they'll pick/roll Shaq to death--and get MORE LAYUPS/DUNKS then you already see--once Shaq is beaten, Stoudemire comes over and either fouls or gives up his man who gets easy look/hoop.
This could end up being UGLY. Shaq is done now--and imagine watching him fumble perfect passes from Nash and unable to finish at the rim-he can't elevate and if he does-he'll get fouled and miss FT's. Just an awful deal for Phoenix and it'll come back to haunt them a longtime.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Feb 6, 2008 11:44:09 GMT -5
As we learned during the Superbowl, Shaq should just retire and persue that dream of being a jockey
I really liked Kerr as a player but he must be on drugs
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 6, 2008 12:58:33 GMT -5
I swear, when I first heard this yesterday, I thought it was a joke. I wrote on the NBA thread that the Laker deal for Gasol pretty much means that this year is the Suns' last best shot. Well, by making this deal, I think they are slamming the door in their own face. How can this possibly work? Even a healthy, younger Shaq wouldn't fit well in the Suns' system. I'm not going to repeat what RDF and Buffalo wrote, but I totally agree.
I know - maybe the Suns will flip Shaq to Memphis for Kwame Brown.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 6, 2008 13:10:47 GMT -5
i think the suns realized their style of play won't win the west, especially after the gasol deal, and they made this move out of total desperation.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 6, 2008 14:09:33 GMT -5
Worst. trade. ever.
I can only imagine that Marion has some incriminating photos of Kerr and blackmailed him into making a deal in order to live it up on South Beach. There is no other explaination.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 6, 2008 14:15:54 GMT -5
Worst. trade. ever. I can only imagine that Marion has some incriminating photos of Kerr and blackmailed him into making a deal in order to live it up on South Beach. There is no other explaination. I'm sure Isiah Thomas and Kevin McHale would beg to differ... |
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 6, 2008 17:23:31 GMT -5
Kobe Rings with out Shaq: 0 Kobe Rings with Shaq: 3 Wade Rings without Shaq: 0 Wade Rings with Shaq: 1 Penny Finals Appearances without Shaq: 0 Penny Finals Appearances with Shaq: 1 Nash Rings/Finals without Shaq: 0 Nash Rings/Finals with Shaq:  Just sayin.... |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 6, 2008 17:47:15 GMT -5
Shaq is decently effective when he can play, and on a lot of teams would be an upgrade. But here? With a team he doesn't fit in with, sharing the post with Stoudemire and not running on the fast break? Huh?
Great trade for Miami. They have tons of cash coming off the books next year and a Top 3 pick to pair with Wade.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Feb 6, 2008 17:52:01 GMT -5
Kobe Rings with out Shaq: 0 Kobe Rings with Shaq: 3 Wade Rings without Shaq: 0 Wade Rings with Shaq: 1 Penny Finals Appearances without Shaq: 0 Penny Finals Appearances with Shaq: 1 Nash Rings/Finals without Shaq: 0 Nash Rings/Finals with Shaq: Just sayin.... So what happens if Kobe wins 3 or 4 more? The Lakers made the right move when they did--getting rid of a guy a year too soon then keeping him to point he's killing the team. Shaq got his fat behind in shape in Miami--he was easily 30-40 lbs overweight and Jerry Buss asked him to get into shape--Shaq felt "disrespected" and demanded his trade. For the money he was paid-I think it's a minor request from an owner who pays your salary. Anyways--Shaq now isn't Shaq--he's STIFF--that is whatever nickname in "Shaq-ese" you prefer: The Big STIFF Sewer STIFF The Queen of Stiffness Oh Stiff of Shaqalicious That man is DONE. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Feb 6, 2008 17:57:42 GMT -5
I was wondering if someone might kick some sense into Steve Kerr by this morning and Shaq might "fail" his physical, but reports say the trade is done.
I don't watch much NBA besides the playoffs, so I'm disappointed because the Suns will probably be less fun to watch this spring.
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jacko
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GET SOME
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Post by jacko on Feb 7, 2008 2:13:34 GMT -5
Nash will now have lanes plugged up with O'Neal and Stoudemire liking to play close to hoop and it'll draw more defense--problem is your shooter is Raja Bell and Grant Hill--who is an overrated/over the hill slasher who can't shoot. Stoudemire is Suns best post player--does he now become KG-like and play 15 feet out? Remember the Tourney of the Americas this summer when the announcers were gushing about Amare's new self-proclaimed nickname (which is too stupid to actually type out) and D'Antoni's plans to have him out shooting 3 pointers? It could still happen... But I don't think it will, at least not for another year or two. I'm not counting Shaq out - not yet, at least. I'd like to at least give him a chance in this new system (though in theory I do see the whole thing as quite asinine for PHO). I do think that he is done until he gets very healthy and in much better shape, which, well, we'll just have to see if that ever happens. I think the Suns want that, though - they're talking about a time frame that brings him back just after the all star break (2 weeks?), and with the way he's been, though I'm no medical expert, I would try to rest/rehab his butt for at least a month, then get him up to about an hour at a time on the treadmill pain/fatigue free before putting him out there with that team. I think he'd be pretty disruptive otherwise. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 7, 2008 10:35:59 GMT -5
The only thing that makes general sense is the timing for the future.
Nash is older and will retire soon; he needs to make a run. Phoenix is willing to overpay for the next two/three years but not further. Between that and Marion's discontent, there's no way he's re-signing in Phoenix.
So you either let him go for nothing and make your run this year, or try to extend Nash's run a few years. It's pretty tough to break up the best record in the league, though. I also think the player is the wrong guy -- Marion is a heckuva player with an expiring contract -- there's not someone better out ther for the Suns?
Does this trade happen if Amare isn't suspended in last year's playoffs (and Suns beat the Spurs)?
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 7, 2008 11:23:50 GMT -5
So what happens if Kobe wins 3 or 4 more? He may well do it. The point is that he hasn't. When Shaq left the Lakers, they instantly became terrible. Maybe Gasol is the cog for the Lakers to get back on top. Point is, Shaq has proven to be the cog to put teams on top before, and he may well be able to do it again with the Suns. |
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Feb 7, 2008 13:21:35 GMT -5
So what happens if Kobe wins 3 or 4 more? He may well do it. The point is that he hasn't. When Shaq left the Lakers, they instantly became terrible. Maybe Gasol is the cog for the Lakers to get back on top. Point is, Shaq has proven to be the cog to put teams on top before, and he may well be able to do it again with the Suns. I'm not bashing you SDHoya--I'm just saying if you are presented the option of keeping just one guy--and you choose between the best player in the world or a once dominant, now lazy/overweight Center who is on downside of his career and balks at the demands of owner to get into proper condition, who do you keep? Lakers made the right move and Shaq brought Heat a title--although I still say Mourning had more of an impact in Finals and at key moments of their Playoff run but I'm biased.  It's worth it to rebuild around Bryant--which they've done. He's easier player to surround yourself with talent. He's got more years left and will fill the arena, which is a big deal. Shaq--take a look at Heat crowds--they were/are pathetic and always have been/will be. As for Suns---they are "excited to have Steve sitting out ready to drain 3's". Really? So you take a guy away from style that made him an MVP, a future HOF player, and turn him into a spot shooter while clogging the lane? People will say he can drive and have Amare to dump it to--why would Stoudemire be near hoop with the big STIFF down low? Raja Bell, Grant Hill, and Diaw become far more important and Diaw is hot garbage, Hill is one of the most overrated players of his generation and a washed up version of that, and Bell is a nice role player--whose game will have least amount of change to it--so he should be fine. Defensively--is where the Suns think it'll help--and they must have watched a different Shaq then I have over the years. When Heat won their title-Riley would put Zo in late/key moments (which is why Riley is smart) because Shaq is a substandard defensive player. Now he's "anchor" of Suns defense?  I've never cared for Marion's game, but I'd not have changed the entire team's style of play midseason and made my team weaker. Everyone who is in favor is talking about "Showtime Lakers" and having Kareem in halfcourt--but difference was an old Kareem was still SKILLED--Shaq is a STIFF. He will prove this on the court-and he's injury prone--or at least fakes injuries to protect his status as a player--because he's looked below substandard and right now I see him more like Erick Dampier then the player he once was. If it works--I'll be first to admit I was wrong and be shocked--I don't see but 2 guys who can shoot from outside consistently on that team-Nash and Bell--Barbosa is streaky from outside and if Suns don't win games and Shaq doesn't get ball-just wait for the whining/groaning coming from Sh-Aristotle of Stiffness. |
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 7, 2008 14:37:30 GMT -5
To be honest, I am sceptical abou this trade too. If tomorrow JTIII said, "Ok, lets scrap this Princeton nonsense, we only got to the Final Four last year," certainly we would all be a bit perplexed, especially, as both the Suns and the Hoyas have excellent records this season. Still, I don't think Shaq is completely spent as a factor, I think it is more a situation of motivation and proper use. You can't teach humongous. Not sure how the Suns plan to use him exactly, but this could not have been a spur of the moment decision by them (as it does require a major shift of strategy), so I feel that the powers that be in Phoenix may know what they are doing a bit more than we give credit for.
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