PDRHoya99
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 766
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Post by PDRHoya99 on Feb 1, 2008 16:05:15 GMT -5
Outside of Aboya who racks up fouls at a frightening pace, they tend not to foul that much. See, he should have been a Hoya! Those two things seemed somewhat opposed in my mind. In order to create turnovers teams typically have to play tight defense. Playing tight defense should lead to fouls. If it doesn't, it means you're probably getting the benefit of the doubt on all the bumps, slaps, holds and pushes that inevitably lead to turnovers. Although this thread has gone off on the racial tangent, I didn't intend that by posting the foul differential. Having watched a few UCLA games at Pauley, they get very generous officiating there. I don't think the same thing applies to the phone booth for whatever reason. The same can be said for any number of teams (the top half of the ACC for instance). I'd like to think it isn't a racial element as we are certainly not the only team with a majority African American lineup, but I don't doubt that could still be the case. If it is though, it must stem from decades ago, I'm not sure most of these refs have been working long enough for that really to be the cause either. If they have then I think I've figured out the real problem, not enough referee turnover at the top level of college hoops. Having officiated a number of games myself in soccer I know how easy it is to develop a grudge against a certain team/player/coach who has been nasty to you in the past (or at least been perceived that way). If the officiating hasn't sufficiently turned over in 20+ years, then I think you have the potential for an ongoing problem.
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rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,595
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Post by rosslynhoya on Feb 1, 2008 16:09:03 GMT -5
Why do I think that this is going to end with SDHoya being forced off to tolerance camp and paying a big indemnity to the Rainbow Coalition?
Mods, again, please lock this thread!
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MacHoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 149
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Post by MacHoya on Feb 1, 2008 16:16:58 GMT -5
Since I started this unfortunate tangent, let me weigh in and ask the mods to lock it. Balla, in my humble opinion, while I acknowledge the FACT that bias, bigotry and yes racism unfortunately continue to exist in this day and age (and not all of it is one way) it seems to me that you are pretty quick to pin what I find to be an interesting statistical anomoly completely on race. Race may or may not be a partial contributor, however, it seems likely to me that style of play is the primary contributor. I personally think that the positive bias enjoyed by Duke is more likely related to race than any negative bias we may suffer - we are not the only predominately black team in the top 25.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 1, 2008 16:17:13 GMT -5
Until this is locked...
Balla:
You are making an assertion that every single (or most) referees are racist, either consciously or not, or that there's a conspiracy against Georgetown by the NCAA. I think you'll agree that these are pretty serious allegations.
But you bring no proof. To you, it's obvious. To me, it's not. Georgetown beat Duke - the example of every single "white basketball player" stereotype that exists in the world - in a massive upset. And the calls tended GU's way or were neutral. Georgetown beat Vanderbilt - another symbol of remarkable whiteness and exclusivity - on a heavily debated call. They beat West Virginia - whose fans call Georgetown "Thugtown" and who are stereotypically white - at West Virginia on a heavily debated call.
They are three examples of Hoya victories against opponents that any well-meaning racist official would use to slam GU. GU won them all.
You've made an allegation. Now prove it. Go check ref records and compare them to the spread. Show video of obvious calls for one game that another team got a better break on.
If you don't, and you just say it's "obvious", you'll have to understand that many people don't see it and will just ignore you. Give me something to analyze.
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MacHoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 149
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Post by MacHoya on Feb 1, 2008 16:20:44 GMT -5
I defer to theexorcist, who is clearly a better writer than I.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 1, 2008 16:24:32 GMT -5
There might be a bigoted ref here or there these days, but I don't think it is a common or institutional thing.
That said, you don't have to dig deep to see huge similarities b/w Bobby Knight and John Thompson (though Thompson doesn't have the violence in his past like Bobby). But the media treatment and public treatment were completely different.
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,059
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 16:34:58 GMT -5
People can place any label on it that they want from bigotry to simple dislike. Labels to not change history or reality.
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Post by sbgorms on Feb 1, 2008 17:10:18 GMT -5
I find it funny that we dime out Vanderbilt as a symbol of remarkable whiteness and exclusivity, when there are many people that view Georgetown outside of its basketball program in the same light.
This is a ridiculous back-and-forth argument because, as theexorcist said, one half of the debate isn't bringing any proof. I hate BS generic claims about anything, positive or negative. Claiming racism in refereeing against Georgetown this year is like announcers that claim our offense is struggling just because the team hasn't had three straight backdoor layups.
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balla
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,059
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 17:14:47 GMT -5
I find it funny that we dime out Vanderbilt as a symbol of remarkable whiteness and exclusivity, when there are many people that view Georgetown outside of its basketball program in the same light. This is a ridiculous back-and-forth argument because, as theexorcist said, one half of the debate isn't bringing any proof. I hate BS generic claims about anything, positive or negative. Claiming racism in refereeing against Georgetown this year is like announcers that claim our offense is struggling just because the team hasn't had three straight backdoor layups. yeah, dime out Vandy(LOL).
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paranoya
Century (over 100 posts)
"Iverson was cool but I supported Victor Page. It's a DC thing, in case you ain't notice." - Wale
Posts: 234
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Post by paranoya on Feb 1, 2008 17:29:38 GMT -5
We need a wrap it up box for these threads like the skit on the Chapelle Show.
"Wrap that s**t up, B!"
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