SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 1, 2008 14:03:10 GMT -5
I know he was referring to race. I didn't follow the Hoyas until the Eshrick era, so I can't speak to what happened then. I have my doubts that things were as bad as some people have said, but I can't speak to that period, so I won't. But in the current era, to say that there is racial bias here is delusional. As I said before, the WVU fans thought that the refs were racist AGAINST THEM. Does that sound like lunacy to you too? Well it sounds just as dumb when one of us claims that to be the case too. We have had bad refs, for sure, but there has been nothing approaching any kind of anti-GU bias, let alone racially motivated bias. You are clearly young, and do not know much about the history of GU basketball. So rather than have a long thread about race and GU on the first day of black history month, I will chalk your standard 'there is no racial bias against GU' line to your naivety. Or your standard "Everything is rascist if I don't like it" to your unwillingness to look at things more deeply than from a one sided homer perspective?
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balla
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 14:08:58 GMT -5
You are clearly young, and do not know much about the history of GU basketball. So rather than have a long thread about race and GU on the first day of black history month, I will chalk your standard 'there is no racial bias against GU' line to your naivety. Or your standard "Everything is rascist if I don't like it" to your unwillingness to look at things more deeply than from a one sided homer perspective? That is funny. You sound like the talking heads that can't see why an all white jury in the south would not have a bias towards the Jenna six because times have changed. To be so young...
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 1, 2008 14:30:34 GMT -5
Buddy, I'm sorry I got into personal attacks with you. You obviously have your firmly held opinion, and I have mine. Seeing as many teams at this point in time field almost all Black players, and many of those have black coaches, why is it that Gtown still suffers from rascism while these others do not? Or are you saying that they do?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 1, 2008 14:37:27 GMT -5
Can we please not bring Jena into a debate on whether Syracuse gets too few offensive fouls called against them?
Every message board whines about the refs in every game. In every game I've watched, I've seen blatant Hoya travels and fouls that weren't called. And I've seen the same on the other side.
If anybody wants to dispute this, get game film and do what people did for Duke - put up obviously biased calls.
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paranoya
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Post by paranoya on Feb 1, 2008 14:41:11 GMT -5
1. Hoyas 2. UCLA 3. Tennessee. I think we'd take UCLA it'd kind of depend on How the game was called. If they call it tight UCLA would win, caudse love would get us into foul trouble. If not I think we'd win. You don't think we'd get good calls in that game? I can't understand why: Rank | Team | FoulsAgainst | Opp Fouls Against | Differential | 5 | UCLA | 14.3 | 19.3 | 5.0 | 6 | Georgetown | 16.7 | 16.2 | -0.5 |
It's not like we're treated any differently by the refs. statsheet.com/mcb/refereesTo get this thread back on topic... Take a look at Wisconsin's differential, I wonder why they win so much at home? Its easy when you pay the refs to call 6 more fouls on your opponents. IMO, Gtown's differential is due to the fact we were such a polarizing team back when we established ourselves and clearly people haven't let that go for various reasons.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 1, 2008 14:41:55 GMT -5
Thankfully, the days when the Georgetown basketball team was a hot-button racial issue are (for the most part) long gone.
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balla
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 14:51:47 GMT -5
Buddy, I'm sorry I got into personal attacks with you. You obviously have your firmly held opinion, and I have mine. Seeing as many teams at this point in time field almost all Black players, and many of those have black coaches, why is it that Gtown still suffers from rascism while these others do not? Or are you saying that they do? There is only one Georgetown, with Georgetown history. If you do not understand that, then that is not my problem. This is not about the bigger question of other schools with black coaches or black players. For those of you living in a bubble, is it climate controlled.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 1, 2008 14:55:56 GMT -5
SDHoya, I'm not piling on you here, but Balla has a strong point in regards to how things are perceived and how they went down.
1. Patrick Ewing was called an "Ape", "Gorilla", had bananas held up/thrown at him--and those were the things I can repeat on this site in regards to what was said about him/his teammates.
2. John Thompson was compared to a disgusting dictator (Amin) for simply not providing unlimited player access to the media--and it was in PRINT MEDIA.
3. Hoyas had to answer questions about their "racism" due to fact entire roster was made up of Black players--but nobody said a word for decades when rosters were comprimised of all White players. The fact the question is asked is racist in it's own right.
4. When Hoyas would get into physical confrontations they were labeled "thugs" and "gang like" among nice things you can say on this site.
5. Hoyas were feared/hated like Duke--but didn't get the calls/national love due to many factors-but mostly due to the fact that John Thompson to stop and thank everyone for the opportunity to coach and did exactly what NEEDED to be done. If you are truly going to have equal opportnities for people and you are going to have an "Even" playing field--questions as to how a man runs's his program in terms of who makes up the roster, what color they are, etc... makes little sense. I understand it if Hoyas were breaking NCAA rules--but Thompson/Hoyas ran a CLEAN PROGRAM and caught more media scrutiny/distaste simply because they didn't smile and act like Step It and Fetch It to all of the white media who thought Pops should be gracious for the "opportunity"--instead of realizing he not only earned the opportunity--he deserved it as his record proved.
We've seen the hypocrisy of the coverage of the Georgetown teams in Pops days with how Duke was covered:
1. JJ Redick was defended by Vitale/Patrick, others as if he was getting worst "verbal abuse" ever. Yet--nothing was said by these mouthpieces when Ewing/Hoyas were subjected to racial bigotry.
2. Laettner steps on a player--and a black player at that--can you imagine if Ewing would've stomped on Harold Jensen in the NCAA final--what type of things would've been said and done? He'd not have been around to see rest of game--and certainly not singled out for his "nasty play" in a complimentary manner.
3. Duke drops to ground like Soccer players with their flopping and it's called "defense". Georgetown played defense and often was outshot at the line by their opponents inspite of having superior post players and guys who attacked the basket. Duke has crap post players and goes to line more then anyone--why? CLEAN CUT IMAGE.
Now--fast-forward to current day--and things have changed for the better--and III is much more liked by media because they don't fear him--he's not 6'10 and loud--he's a quiet coach who attended Princeton and is a disciple of Pete Carrill--a man the media loves/respects. III is a lot like his father in more ways then media will take time to find out--but it doesn't matter--I love Pops for what he did--who he was and he did the 2 best things for this university---he built the foundation of this program into a National Power and he and his ex-wife gave us III---a man who is carrying on the tradition of Georgetown basketball--but also John Thompson!
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 1, 2008 15:01:14 GMT -5
I am not talking about 1985!!! I am talking about 2008!!! Like you said, RDF, JTIII is a media darling, our team is considered (rightly) to be a group of upstanding, intellegent and disciplined young men. Where is the racism TODAY?
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balla
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 15:04:26 GMT -5
I am not talking about 1985!!! I am talking about 2008!!! Like you said, RDF, JTIII is a media darling, our team is considered (rightly) to be a group of upstanding, intellegent and disciplined young men. Where is the racism TODAY? It there a high-def TV in your bubble also.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 1, 2008 15:08:39 GMT -5
I am not talking about 1985!!! I am talking about 2008!!! Like you said, RDF, JTIII is a media darling, our team is considered (rightly) to be a group of upstanding, intellegent and disciplined young men. Where is the racism TODAY? It there a high-def TV in your bubble also. Ok, balla, don't answer. Its much easier just to attack me as being "young" or "naive" even though you have no idea who I am, rather than directly adressing my points. At least RDF attempted to do so. You just act like some sleazy politician, slinging dirt in a desperate attempt to stave off irrelevancy.
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balla
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 15:11:41 GMT -5
It there a high-def TV in your bubble also. Ok, balla, don't answer. Its much easier just to attack me as being "young" or "naive" even though you have no idea who I am, rather than directly adressing my points. At least RDF attempted to do so. You just act like some sleazy politician, slinging dirt in a desperate attempt to stave off irrelevancy. Trying to explain why water is wet to a child is not easy. If you see no racism in this world( or least when it pertains to GU, the media, or officials) that is on you. I would like to live in the Utopia that you live in, since the media and the officials have changed so much in 20 years.
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paranoya
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Post by paranoya on Feb 1, 2008 15:18:22 GMT -5
You want to find racism today really? Go look at some exchanges on the WVU board. Seriously, and go back to last years game and what they said abotu Patrick Ewing Jr. after the game because he slightly chest bumped a player on the way to our huddle during a timeout. It turns out a wealthy son of an ex NBA player is a thug? Yeah Im sure he clutched his Glock tightly when the shots were ringing out at night in his suburban 'hood. Do you think they would ever call a dirty white player the names they said? If so Bill Romanowski is the biggest "thug" to ever play any sport.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 1, 2008 15:20:56 GMT -5
SD also some of the Refs who hated pops when he was around still ref games. There's a different thompson at the helm, but the name on the jersey is the same, and old grudges are hard to let go.
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brooklynhoya
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Post by brooklynhoya on Feb 1, 2008 15:32:55 GMT -5
If you want to hijack this thread and make it about racism, then fine; but for the love of God, can people stop tossing the word racism around so liberally? Racism is the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race over another- Hitler was a racist. Referees may be, but more likely they are prejudiced and bigoted, not racists. You want to talk about times changing? I was arguing this point in Sociology class at GU nearly 20 years ago, and nothing's changed.
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balla
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 15:38:21 GMT -5
If you want to hijack this thread and make it about racism, then fine; but for the love of God, can people stop tossing the word racism around so liberally? Racism is the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race over another- Hitler was a racist. Referees may be, but more likely they are prejudiced and bigoted, not racists. You want to talk about times changing? I was arguing this point in Sociology class at GU nearly 20 years ago, and nothing's changed. Who was your professor(LOL). Regardless of what it is called, a son inherits half of his father's friends and all of his father's enemies.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 1, 2008 15:47:04 GMT -5
Just lock it.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Feb 1, 2008 15:54:56 GMT -5
bottom line: III is a black man in America, not Utopia.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 1, 2008 15:57:30 GMT -5
Ok, let me explain one thing quickly, and then I am forcing myself not to respond to this thread any more.
I do not live in a bubble. I recognize that there is racism still out there. I should know, on multiple occasions, I have personally been a target of it.
On the other hand, as I said before, I have been a referee for a number of years. In that time, on a few occasions, I have been accused of being racist, because the calls in those games were not to the liking of teams made up mainly of a minority group. I can tell you, of all the things I have been called while refereeing (and I guarantee you, I have been called A LOT of things), the one that stung the most was "racist". On the other hand, I have been told many times, by members of all groups, how successfully and fairly I run the games. See, I know that people in these groups have been exposed to racism, just as I have, so I know why they are sceptical of anything that seems to go against them.
What I am trying to say is that more often than not, these types of insults, especially against referees, who are in a thankless profession to begin with, are horribly unfair. I don't doubt that there are some officials out there who do bring their bigotry to the game. But I also am loathe to look around every corner for racism, as I know the damage that doing that can cause. Give the referees the benefit of the doubt. With some officials, there might be evidence to support your claims. But for the majority, there is no evidence of racism, and to hurl that word at them is, in my opinion, irresponsible.
Ok, I'm done. Balla, I'm sure to expect a response from you know telling me how "naive" I am. Have at it.
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balla
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Post by balla on Feb 1, 2008 16:00:55 GMT -5
Ok, let me explain one thing quickly, and then I am forcing myself not to respond to this thread any more. I do not live in a bubble. I recognize that there is racism still out there. I should know, on multiple occasions, I have personally been a target of it. On the other hand, as I said before, I have been a referee for a number of years. In that time, on a few occasions, I have been accused of being racist, because the calls in those games were not to the liking of teams made up mainly of a minority group. I can tell you, of all the things I have been called while refereeing (and I guarantee you, I have been called A LOT of things), the one that stung the most was "racist". On the other hand, I have been told many times, by members of all groups, how successfully and fairly I run the games. See, I know that people in these groups have been exposed to racism, just as I have, so I know why they are sceptical of anything that seems to go against them. What I am trying to say is that more often than not, these types of insults, especially against referees, who are in a thankless profession to begin with, are horribly unfair. I don't doubt that there are some officials out there who do bring their bigotry to the game. But I also am loathe to look around every corner for racism, as I know the damage that doing that can cause. Give the referees the benefit of the doubt. With some officials, there might be evidence to support your claims. But for the majority, there is no evidence of racism, and to hurl that word at them is, in my opinion, irresponsible. Ok, I'm done. Balla, I'm sure to expect a response from you know telling me how "naive" I am. Have at it. No need for me to state the obvious.
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