urban cryer recruiting violations???

[HoyaFanNY]

slimeball


tinyurl.com/ypsopc

[hifigator]

You're nuts.

The University is being very thorough in its own investigation. At the very, very most it could be a minor violation in the recruitment of the gymnast. There is some policy where it is usually not allowed for coaches of one sport to recruit athletes for another sport. Meyer supposedly talked to her several times in November and asked how Carl was doing since during that period, coaches can only call recruits once a week. If you think that is worthy of this "slimeball" lable, then you are a clown. Don't get me wrong; I am not sluffing this off totally, but rather just pointing out the incredibly minor nature of the issue altogether. Slimeball??? Hardly.

Besides, I wonder why this is coming up now anyway. Heck, RDF and I discussed it a month ago.

[DrumsGoBang]

Hey why are you calling people names Hifi? I think that is aganist the Hoyatalk rules. You may have to be banned for life.

[Gold Hoya]

Where'd my ignore button go?

[HoyaFanNY]

hifi, you are a hypocrite. you call out rich rodriguez for shreding worthless paperwork in his office but can't take it when someone calls out your coach for possible recruiting violations. please. face facts, meyer is a slimeball and everyone knows it. you, meanwhile, are a complete tool. you are still upset because michigan whipped your crap team in the bowl game. go cry in your florida towel and come back when you grow a set.

[hifigator]

Jan 24, 2008 6:51:30 GMT -5 HoyaFanNY said:

hifi, you are a hypocrite. you call out rich rodriguez for shreding worthless paperwork in his office but can't take it when someone calls out your coach for possible recruiting violations. please. face facts, meyer is a slimeball and everyone knows it. you, meanwhile, are a complete tool. you are still upset because michigan whipped your crap team in the bowl game. go cry in your florida towel and come back when you grow a set.

You can't see the forest for the trees. Like I said, I am not waving this issue off, nor is the University. It does look entirely petty at worst, but that still isn't the point. The point is to use this obviously trivial issue to arrive at the determination that Meyer is a slimeball is patently absurd. That is all that I am saying. As for Michigan, sure, they dominated us in the Capital One Bowl. I have never denied that, nor made excuses. As for Rodriguez, all that I did was post a link to a somewhat pointed article, questioning Rodriguez's actions. Incidentally, 2 days after I posted the link, the story did become Naional news. The only certainty here, is that I have not in any way been hypocritical.

[RDF]

Hifi--Meyer has some really slimy tactics--he used his one year assistant hired from Taft HS to get "friends" of his out to USC practices and recruit their players to "look elsewhere". That guy is gone now--believe his last name was Starr--Troy Starr but not positive. He was there 1 year.

As for what we discussed-I brought this up--and now it's out there--he not only did this--but he was calling the girlfriend daily for over a Month--that is a violation and if he's doing that for a kid who will see the football as much as I will at Florida--I mean Tebow has to get his 15+ carries per game, then you add Harvin with his runs/dump passes, then you have Ingram who was talked out of leaving for the NFL and his touches--that leaves Moody and Moore--a 2 year JC WR fighting to get rest.

Tells me that Meyer is going to do what he did a year ago--and give either Brantley or Newton some reps and throw more--or he's going to have some disappointed kids as they watch Tebow and Harvin get 75% of the offensive touches.

[hifigator]

Jan 24, 2008 11:46:47 GMT -5 RDF said:

Hifi--Meyer has some really slimy tactics--he used his one year assistant hired from Taft HS to get "friends" of his out to USC practices and recruit their players to "look elsewhere". That guy is gone now--believe his last name was Starr--Troy Starr but not positive. He was there 1 year.

As for what we discussed-I brought this up--and now it's out there--he not only did this--but he was calling the girlfriend daily for over a Month--that is a violation and if he's doing that for a kid who will see the football as much as I will at Florida--I mean Tebow has to get his 15+ carries per game, then you add Harvin with his runs/dump passes, then you have Ingram who was talked out of leaving for the NFL and his touches--that leaves Moody and Moore--a 2 year JC WR fighting to get rest.

Tells me that Meyer is going to do what he did a year ago--and give either Brantley or Newton some reps and throw more--or he's going to have some disappointed kids as they watch Tebow and Harvin get 75% of the offensive touches.

I could see that argument to a degree, but ultimately what you are saying is that we shouldn't go after other top prospects because we already have top notch talent. I don't buy that. I will meet you half way, in so far as it is and will likely continue to be difficult to recruit marquee running backs who would obviously favor a more traditional offensive scheme with a blocking back and 20-25 routine handoffs a game.

I don't know what is in Meyer's head, but I honestly don't think he prefers to have Harvin in the backfield. He has certainly made that point over and over. I think he would prefer to have a dynamic running back next to a dual threat QB, with three playmakers spread out across the field. If all the recruitniks are correct, then Moore could be one more piece to this puzzle. Ideally, Moody or Mon Williams, who missed this past season with injuries, will earn the starting running back spot. That would free up Harvin to play outside with the likes of Deonte Thompson, Carl Moore and Cornelius Ingram. Mix in a little bit of Chris Rainey and some Aaron Hernandez and you have the makings of a very potent offense. Let's face it, Harvin was totally gassed at the end of the Cap. One Bowl. Rightly or wrongly, he was over-used. One argument would be that the other players hadn't developed enough and we were forced to use Harvin too much. The other argument is that for whatever reason, Tebow wasn't confident enough in the other playmakers. Either way, I think that issue is very high on Meyer's list. He isn't trying to sign the top notch guys just so no one else has them.

As for Tebow, I don't think the goal is to have nearly 20 carries a game from the quarterback, but rather to have a QB capable of running and making the defense pay with his legs if they overplay the other playmakers. I think if Meyer gets enough guys of the caliber that he wants, then you will see a player run a fly pattern literally on every single play. Ultimately he wants to stretch the field in every possible way. He wants to make the defense defend every square inch of the field. He wants to run a "spread" in every sense of the word. If he can get playmaking wideouts with world class speed on both sides at the ame time as well as a slot reciever, a back and a QB who can all make you pay, then you will see something special from an offensive unit. No one individual will put up the kinds of numbers that have traditionally been seen from the elite players, but the aggregate will be simply amazing.

In any case, Bubba Caldwell graduated. That alone opens up a spot for Moore to compete for with guys like Deonte Thompson who redshirted.

The bottom line is I just don't buy your argument that he did this kid a disservice by bringing him into a situation where he is going to be competing with too many other talented players. I think the competitor in each of us would cherish that opportunity. And if you want to take it one step further, the top athletes will be put in as good a spot as any, to showcase their abilities to the scouts of the next level. Regardless of our history of conference debates about which one is the best, there are and have been more SEC players on NFL rosters for two decades. That isn't going to change anytime soon. Given that's the case, it is safe to assume that we know who the NFL scouts are looking at don't we?

[RDF]

Urban Meyer has a great offense for College--but so did Tom Osborne and Barry Switzer. Soon--after Tebow flops in NFL as Alex Smith has--it'll be proven this offense is starting to kill QB development. It's NOT an NCAA coach's job to develop NFL players--but good QB's want to play in the NFL and with salary cap, you don't have the time to develop players as once before--so it'll be used against the "Spread/Run" QB systems.

I think Tebow is perfect QB for UF. I am NOT saying Gators shouldn't recruit big time talent--but I don't understand why Meyer was so obsessed with landing a JC WR when his WR's run go patterns and take handoffs?? I mean you named the kids and all of those guys are better fits for this offense. Moore is a talented kid--but he's an NFL style WR in an offense where you don't run routes--you run bubble screens and take offs.

With the amount of teams moving towards this style of offense--and understandably so at college level-don't be shocked to see poor development at all of the skill positions.

QB--guys will struggle with reading coverages/making throws in pocket/traffic.

RB--Not many option RB's made great NFL players--and this is a 21st century form of option.

WR--always seeing man coverage-and running bubble screens and go patterns--won't help you against type of coverages you see in NFL.

Everything is cyclical--but I'd really hammer that point home if I were recruiting against Florida, Illinois, etc....--you better believe it's started and will continue--look at Ryan Mallett's comments upon his departure from Michigan--he said "I want to play in NFL and that system isn't going to get me there".

So while your job is winning games-it's also easier if you can attract top recruits--and many will turn you down at the QB/RB/WR/TE positions to go places that run Pro Style offenses. Not all--but it'll happen. It's also going to lead to what you saw in 1980's/90's where eventually the teams who don't run a similar offense to the "option/spread" will start to dominate--the USC's Miami's etc... because they are used to defending the spread but run a Pro-Set and most teams don't utilize that style of offense.

Just a thought--but don't be shocked if it happens in next 4-5 years where the "Spread" starts dying and a return to traditional option makes a reappearance as it's a tough offense to prepare for when less teams utilize it and you don't need stud OL to execute it--which is where discrepency in talent is most felt--on line of scrimmage--OL/DL.

[hifigator]

Your point with regard to quarterback development is very valid. Contrary to what June Jones said, I do think that Tebow could run most any system but as you point out, his natural skills are more optimized in our current system. That being said, I don't think there is too much of a hinderence at any other offensive position, from linemen to backs, tight ends and receivers. Harvin playing so much from the backfield was a bit of an anomoly. I think that was chosen pretty much out of necessity becasue we didn't have the playmaker at running back ... at least one that didn't have trouble holding onto the ball. If we can address that issue next year, most likely by Moody or Mon Williams then I think you will see Harvin spen most of his time on the outside. Wide receiver development will be fine in this offense, and even though it is being done in a slightly different way, I think you are seeing a degree of the same thing in the NFL. Coaches at every level are thinking outside the box. It isn't just a matter of lining up with a blocking back and a halfback with 2 outside receivers. Instead coaches are using a lot more slash positions -- guys who might start in the backfield but then go in motion and run downfield routes, not just swing and screen passes. Coaches at every level are trying to get their best playmakers "x" number of touches each game. They want to get the ball into their playmakers hands in space. That is exactly what our Spread option is desidned to do, and in so far as that is the case, I think it does prepare the players for the NFL. As to whether the spread offense is here to stay, we will have to wait and see, but to try to suggest that it isn't good for the receivers since it isn't similar to the traditional offensive schemes is flawed logic.


Lastly, here you go. You can throw some more dirt in my direction:

insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3212354&name=feldman_bruce