Is This a Rivalry?

[hoyaLS05]

I was going to write about this for The Hoya but logistically it didn't work. Maybe next year. Also, if mods feel that this doesn't warrant its own thread, I won't be offended if it is moved to the pregame discussion.

Anyway, over Christmas break I was talking to a friend from home who goes to Syracuse (it's unfortunate, I know) and he was saying that students there consider Connecticut, not Georgetown, to be their main rival. He says that, generally speaking, kids at Cuse just don't remember many meaningful games against us, whereas in the last 5-6 years or so, they've had a bunch of important matchups with the Huskies. After this conversation, I asked another kid I know that goes to Syracuse, and he said the same thing.

Some might -- and I bet many of you will -- say that the Syracuse students lack a sense of history. That seems to be valid. You also might say that while these kids may not look at Georgetown as a rival, their fathers probably would. That is also a good point. But from what I gather, Georgetown makes more of these games than Syracuse does.

Does that mean Hoyas fans should not care so much? No. Should we reconsider who we view as our rival? I don't think so. Does this have any bearing on tomorrow's game? Of course not.

But I do think it is interesting.

[jerseyhoya34]

SU fans think it is a rivalry when they beat us.

[Deleted]

It's not A rivalry. It's THE rivalry.

Since when do we listen to what Syracuse fans think?

[Locker]

Yes. Next.

[Eurostar]

Jan 20, 2008 20:01:47 GMT -5 hoyaLS05 said:

I was going to write about this for The Hoya but logistically it didn't work. Maybe next year. Also, if mods feel that this doesn't warrant its own thread, I won't be offended if it is moved to the pregame discussion.

Anyway, over Christmas break I was talking to a friend from home who goes to Syracuse (it's unfortunate, I know) and he was saying that students there consider Connecticut, not Georgetown, to be their main rival. He says that, generally speaking, kids at Cuse just don't remember many meaningful games against us, whereas in the last 5-6 years or so, they've had a bunch of important matchups with the Huskies. After this conversation, I asked another kid I know that goes to Syracuse, and he said the same thing.

Some might -- and I bet many of you will -- say that the Syracuse students lack a sense of history. That seems to be valid. You also might say that while these kids may not look at Georgetown as a rival, their fathers probably would. That is also a good point. But from what I gather, Georgetown makes more of these games than Syracuse does.

Does that mean Hoyas fans should not care so much? No. Should we reconsider who we view as our rival? I don't think so. Does this have any bearing on tomorrow's game? Of course not.

But I do think it is interesting.

i agree on both counts. frankly, syracuse and uconn have been better than us for the last 10-15 years and it makes sense that the current students see those schools as the biggest rivals - they are similar caliber academically and closer regionally, a lot of kids probably applied to both. they are also now both big east football/basketball schools.

as a recent graduate, if i didnt have a sense of history i would lean towards villanova and notre dame being bigger rivalries for us/me. they are similar to us academically, similar student bodies, all 3 are religiously based... a lot of people (including me) probably applied to all 3. we have also had some pretty big games recently with these schools.

that being said, giving cuse a beat down tomorrow night would feel just as good if not better than it felt this past saturday at around 2pm.

[DanMcQ]

Kids these days.

:::shaking head:::

That said, I endorse Cam's post 100%.

[guru]

It's true - the majority of Syracuse fans consider UConn their main rival at this point. Not sure we're in their top 3 right now. Not saying they're right, because GU/SU is definitely the most historically significant rivalry in the league. But we were just so irrelevant for so long, it's hard to sustain a rivalry when one side pretty much stops being competitive.

A few more beatdowns of the Orange might wake up the echoes, though.

[FLHoya]

Yes. We're still talking about this?

[vcjack]

It doesn't matter, the old timers will be reminded, and the new kids will learn by PAIN

[vamosalaplaya]

After Syracuse goes 10-8 this year in conference and misses the NCAAs, and GU wins the Big East again and gets a top three seed in the NCAA in some region, I would say, no, it isn't a rivalry, because that will make three straight years GU is way better than Syracuse and the Orange is a novelty act with a large arena.

You know, heading in the direction of their football team.

Pitt is our rival. Syracuse isn't good enough to be our rival, the games will only mean something when they upset Georgetown

[DFW HOYA]

Jan 20, 2008 22:15:04 GMT -5 guru said:

But we were just so irrelevant for so long, it's hard to sustain a rivalry when one side pretty much stops being competitive.

I tend to think that the "irrelevant" card is a misnomer, because after 1989 Georgetown didn't win even when it was nationally ranked.

This is still a rivalry, but Georgetown is 3-12 on the road since 1989 and only 6-8 at home.

1980-89 (18-7):
Home: 9-0
Away: 5-5
Neutral: 4-2

1990-98 (5-13):
Home: 3-5
Away: 2-7
Neutral: 0-1

1999-04 (4-7):
Home: 2-3
Away: 1-3
Neutral: 1-1

2004- (1-3):
Home: 1-0
Away: 0-2
Neutral: 0-1

[The Stig]

We will always hate Cuse, but we have to make Cuse hate us again. Going 2-0 against them this year would be a good start.

The problem is that our current team is pretty tough to hate with the sort of passion that we aroused from our rivals in the 80's. I love being seen as a classy program that does things the right way, but that makes it tough to establish big rivalries like we had back in JT2's glory days.

[royski]

In NCAA Hoops, 2K8, Georgetown's rivals are Syracuse and St Johns. That means that when the game turns on, and goes to my favorite team, it suggests that I play Syracuse. This is awesome.

That should settle the issue.

[happyhoya1979]

Georgetown has a bit of a problem in the Big East conference since we really do not have a good rival. A great rivalry depends on schools being very similar academically, geographically and sports-wise. We are so vastly superior academically to the rest of the conference that we really don't fit. There are not vast armies of Georgetown freshman stinging with resentment from having been rejected by another school's admission office. The other schools have not breached the White House with a President or the Supreme Court, and a year like we had last Fall in which we were one of only two universities in America to receive a Marshall, Rhodes and a Mitchell Scholar is unheard of at the other schools. Since we aren't on top of anyone geographically, there isn't the passion of five guys from my high school going to one place and five guys to another place only 80 miles down the road. OUr students come from all over the country.Yeah, we like to beat Syracuse or UConn or Pitt, but its not same thing as a USC-UCLA , UNC-Duke or Princeton-Penn rivalry.

[HoyaInsomniac]

Jan 20, 2008 20:32:33 GMT -5 @cam said:

It's not A rivalry. It's THE rivalry.

Since when do we listen to what Syracuse fans think?

Done and done.

I was an undergrad during the worst four years of Georgetown basketball. The Class of 2005 never saw an NCAA tournament and we were certainly handed our share of losses to Syracuse, UConn and St. John's. Which ones hurt the most? Syracuse. Always Syracuse. Just because upstate New York has frozen some Orange brains into a Lambeau-Field-at-night-in-January chunk of ice doesn't make it any less significant. Beating Syracuse is always a highlight of the season. Let them learn the hard way.

[ninetyoner]

Part of the dilution in the rivalry results from the way NCAA basketball is televised today as opposed to back in the 80's. Back in the day, Gtown always played a home and home with Cuse right after Christmas break and on the last Sunday of the regular season. I don't recall if the January game was always nationally televised but the March game was always the premier event that Sunday on CBS' sports calendar. Back then, before the complete proliferation of ESPN, nationally televised games were a HUGE deal and the Georgetown-Cuse game kicked off what ESPN has now "branded" as Championship Week. That March game always got Summerall and Packer with James Brown in the studio. It had a buzz.

Plus, both Boeheim and JTII were hugely polarizing figures back then. JTII always got cast in the role of Darth Vader (racial overtones intended) and Boeheim was the classic underdog, whiny white guy. The media made them caricatures.

The players were also meaner then. Ewing, Dalton, Graham, Mourning, Smitty and MacDonald v. Seikaly, Pearl, Coleman and Moten were just physically brutal match-ups and the fans absolutely hated each other. I was in the Dome in 88 for Smitty's buzzer beater, a section of about 50 Hoya students in the upper deck surronded by a sea of hostile orange, when a rabid Syracuse fan, heart broken, at a loss for words shouted at me "YOU....COMMUNIST!" It was wild.

[hoyainspirit]

"Manley Field House is now officially closed!"

[Locker]

Jan 21, 2008 0:09:55 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

Georgetown has a bit of a problem in the Big East conference since we really do not have a good rival. A great rivalry depends on schools being very similar academically, geographically and sports-wise. We are so vastly superior academically to the rest of the conference that we really don't fit. There are not vast armies of Georgetown freshman stinging with resentment from having been rejected by another school's admission office. The other schools have not breached the White House with a President or the Supreme Court, and a year like we had last Fall in which we were one of only two universities in America to receive a Marshall, Rhodes and a Mitchell Scholar is unheard of at the other schools. Since we aren't on top of anyone geographically, there isn't the passion of five guys from my high school going to one place and five guys to another place only 80 miles down the road. OUr students come from all over the country.Yeah, we like to beat Syracuse or UConn or Pitt, but its not same thing as a USC-UCLA , UNC-Duke or Princeton-Penn rivalry.

I'm pretty sure you've forgotten Notre Dame in this account of the Big East's academic landscape.

Also, even if GU/SU is not as big as it used to be, in the world of college basketball, it's way bigger than Princeton-Penn.

[Huntsville Hoya]

GU/SU is the rivalry in the Big East. To be quite hon est until Gerry Mac beat us in the Big East Tourney a couple of years ago, I thought the rivalry was on the way out. My concern is G'Towns inability to win big road games. You need signature road wins to stamp your ticket to the tourney. The BE tourney is always a crap shoot. We were very fortunate to win last year.

HOYA-SAXA from H'ville, AL

[Hoya TMF]

The Syracuse students are idiots. The players and alums understand what this means. I hate UConn with a passion deep in my soul ... yet that passion is not as strong as my absolute disgust for Syracuse, it's coach and its fans. Syracuse students will udnerstand what this rivalry means after they get waxed a few times by our Hoyas. Tonight will be the first of many more to come in the next few years. We'll ask them again in four or five years, who they consider the biggest rival. Their answer still won't be Georgetown though because it can't be a rivalry unless you actually win some games. It begins again tonight and continues forever. Go Hoyas!!!!