Vern - it was so simple

[GIGAFAN99]

It's not Vern and Roy. It's not Vern or Pat.

It's Vern-Summers-Freeman that's the problem.

Basically we'd start Roy-Pat-Dajuan which is cool and when one of them sat, it was almost time for both to sit. So Vern wasn't just playing the 5, he was playing it in a defensively-damaged lineup sans Roy and Pat. And offensively, those other two couldn't get as much spacing relying on Vern as the only low post guy since they're both basket-facing players.

Today III started Freeman and Summers with Roy and brought Pat and Vernon in as a "package." And it worked beautifully. Vern's not as exposed on defense because he's playing with a guy who makes his money playing D. He's not the only inside focus as Pat is a combo face-up/post player unlike Dajuan. And when Vern sits for Roy, he just left Pat in because that works too.

Maybe it was just today but the mystery of how to use Vern might have been solved today. He looked much more comfortable but being up 20 also could have had that effect.

[nashvillehoyas]

I totally agree. I have thought from day one that the front court should evenually be Hibbert, Freeman and Summers. Ewing and Vern cominig off the bench. Ewing appears to be more focus as a reserve. Go Hoyas

[Hoya TMF]

this has looked like a great piece of coaching by III so far, and Summers is crashing the boards. We'll see if it keeps up during BE play.

[Just Cos]

I'm still not sold, but I think Giga makes a good point. It will be interesting to see how this line up fares against some tougher and bigger opponents.

[FLHoya]

I like the alignment generally and think it will be good for the team in the long run, but I thought Vern and Pat both played pretty awful today.

[SirSaxa]

Dec 31, 2007 14:48:40 GMT -5 GIGAFAN99 said:

It's not Vern and Roy. It's not Vern or Pat.

It's Vern-Summers-Freeman that's the problem.

Basically we'd start Roy-Pat-Dajuan which is cool and when one of them sat, it was almost time for both to sit. So Vern wasn't just playing the 5, he was playing it in a defensively-damaged lineup sans Roy and Pat. And offensively, those other two couldn't get as much spacing relying on Vern as the only low post guy since they're both basket-facing players.

Today III started Freeman and Summers with Roy and brought Pat and Vernon in as a "package." And it worked beautifully. Vern's not as exposed on defense because he's playing with a guy who makes his money playing D. He's not the only inside focus as Pat is a combo face-up/post player unlike Dajuan. And when Vern sits for Roy, he just left Pat in because that works too.

Maybe it was just today but the mystery of how to use Vern might have been solved today. He looked much more comfortable but being up 20 also could have had that effect.

Thanks GIGA
I wasn't able to see the game today, but how did Pat manage to foul out of a blow out that he didn't even start?

REBOUNDING!

Don't know what the answer is. Summers got 9 today, but somehow we still managed to get outrebounded -- BY FORDHAM! They got 19 offensive boards!!!

Sapp -- 11 points and 6 assists in 19 minutes

And wasn't that Roy hitting the first three he ever attempted? What does that do to his "180 shooter" stat?

[DudeSlade]

How does this help our rebounding to replace our best rebounder with a 6'5" freshman guard? No knock on Freeman who is a tremendous scorer, but this seems to be an offense for defense switch, which I didn't think we needed considering the scoring ability of our other 4 starters. Who is going to be our scoring punch off the bench now? I'm not as confident in Wright off the bench as I was with Freeman. This lineup worked well today, but then again the old lineup worked pretty well against every team not named Memphis, so I will reserve judgment on this until we get to Big East play against some bigger, stronger teams who play better defense and rebound better. On the plus side, I think this improves our bench quite a bit by providing more flexibility in our subbing and gives us more minutes to sub at the 4 and 5. We won't see such a let down on rebounding and defense with the 2nd unit. I hope it doesn't discourage Pat, though, and I hope he continues to get the 20+ minutes he got today. Hoya Saxa!

[GUJook97]

Rebounding is a bit of an issue for this team, but rebounding in this game is so meaningless, it is not even worth talking about. When you are beating a team by 25-35 points most of the game, it is okay to take chances and bail out in hopes of a break. Our starters are playing 20-25 minutes. Of course we are going to get outrebounded when our 4th to 6th guys off the bench are playing down the stretch.

[SFHoya99]

How is Pat "our best rebounder"?

Defensive Rebounding %:

1. Summers 19.4%
(Crawford 17.4% in limited time)
2. Hibbert 17.2%
3. Sapp 16.0%
4. Wright 13.0%
5. Macklin 11.5%
6. Freeman 10.5%
7t. Ewing 10.2%
7t. Rivers 10.2%
9. Wallace 5.1%

Ewing fairs better on the offensive boards -- second on the team -- but that's not really the problem, is it? The problem is that Ewing and Macklin aren't any better than our guards at defensive rebounding. Only Jon has gotten less defensive rebounds on a % basis, and he's a 6' guard.

[SFHoya99]

Then again, I may be wrong as to what the problem is. Looking at last year, we were actually 180th+ in defensive rebounding, though that stat is not adjusted for competition. Right now we're 80th, but that may entirely be the competition and unbalanced schedules teams have been playing.

But we were a very good offensive rebounding team last year -- 8th in the nation in O Rebounding % despite playing in the Big East. Much of that was Roy, but our %s are similar right now despite playing much weaker competition.

I do wonder how much this is solved if Dajuan, Roy and Jessie are playing 35 minutes instead of 20.

Either way -- Austin has not been an appreciably worse defensive rebounder than Pat. Especially when you consider that Pat plays more PF and Austin SF. Though Pat probably gets two offensive rebounds to Austin's one.

[GIGAFAN99]

I agree with that. Freeman is a decent rebounder but the key to the whole thing is that Summers can be an average defender at the 4 and continue to rebound like he's been. If he can do that, Roy, the former Jeff Green's bodyguard, becomes Dajuan Summers' bodyguard and we don't lose much on defense. Will a 6'4 to 6'7 small forward be able to shoot over Austin more easily than Dajuan? Of course, but I think we take that chance at the beginning of games if it means better chemistry in our Vernon set.

And remember, we can still finish games with the bigger Summers, Ewing, Hibbert lineup. This is just a lineup change at the start of halves. Come crunch time, Vern will be on the sidelines.

Oh and SirSaxa, Pat pretty much got involved in every single play for a ten minute stretch in the second half. Not a big deal. I think he was going for a couple of "return to senders" that he normally wouldn't.

[mrsixer123]

Dec 31, 2007 15:08:12 GMT -5 Hoya TMF said:

this has looked like a great piece of coaching by III so far, and Summers is crashing the boards. We'll see if it keeps up during BE play.

Um, didnt a poster suggest this a week ago??

[lichoya68]

i think that the team is better with pats energy coming off the bench he just needs to avoid that occasional head game when other players whack him hard get him ticked and he seems to react and complain to the refs and get close to technicals like his energy but he seeemed to stop that but it came out yesterday maybe in part due to frustration with getting hacked and his missing shots. but i also think that our tight end mr. freeman will be a great rebounder he has a nose for the ball is very tough underneath in fact for those there and not there i thought he had an amazing rebbie at the end of the half when he made a SPECTACULAR rebound on our last shot kinda came outa nowhere and almost put back the rebbie woulda been a sports center highlite in my mind if it went in it kinda went in and out GREAT REBOUND sooo great move him to start he will be one of gus all time scorers yup and hell get a few boards and pat wil be great energy coming off the bench if he just remembers to keep it aggressive but cool and as for vern love his progress and athleticsm BUT needs to hit 20 in a row from the line at the end of pracitce yup as somebody said yesterday hell be sleeping in the gym... but if thats what it takes GO HOYAS GO AUSTIN... GO PATRICK AND GO VERN YUP GO HOYAS BEAT RUTGERS BOARDS BOARDS BOARDS

[lichoya68]

PS I DO THINK COACH KINDA KNOWS WHAT HES DOING YUP