Georgetown vs. Syracuse- let the battle begin!

[GUHoya07]

A Syracuse fan posted this Hoya article from a couple years back on the cuse board. It's good to read in preparation for the big game on Tuesday night. This rivalry is not dead!

www.thehoya.com/sports/022202/sports5.cfm

[Simian Prime]

Let them keep remembering the past....

[FrostbackHoya]

While my time on campus ('89-'91) had some epic 'Cuse battles, the ex-Indians are pulling your chain. Even over the past few seasons, when we've not been at our most powerful...

2000-01 1-1

2001-02 2-0 (including a good quality 15 point juicing, as pointed out in the article!)

2002-03 0-2, but one of those losses one of our 15 (well, three, but it felt like more...) OT losses that year.

Even last year, with only one 'Cuse game and lots of other struggles for the Hoyas, we only lost by 3 to the Fantas.

Go Hoyas -- rain threes upon the heathens like plagues upon the Egyptians (and I'm not even religious... amazing that Jesuit effect... ;D)

[GUHoya07]

From the Syracuse board:

"How G'Town wrecked the Big East (long and sad)... Reply

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... (with St. John's and Villanova too, to be fair)... Follow along Hoya fans, its time for your introduction to major collegiate athletics. There will be a quiz afterwards, but its open book.

A few years ago the ACC realized that it was in trouble. See, its football ratings had declined precipitously and the league had all but been surpassed by the Big East, making it a clear #6 on the football conference pecking order. With Florida State always an investigation away from probabtion, the ACC needed to take action to prop up its sagging football fortunes. Its only option was to add attractive members to give it leverage in their next TV negotiation. Certainly no one from the SEC, Big Ten or Big XII would be interested, those leagues were already awash in TV cash. No, the only target was the Big East.

Why the Big East? Well you see a league that was literally built for TV had faltered. The uniqueness of the Big East was that its hoops programs served up on a platter to TV most of the top media markets in the nation... New York, Boston, Philly, Washington, D.C. Throw in "connector" markets like Hartford/New Haven, Providence, New Jersey and upstate New York, and the Big East's media footprint was unrivaled. But now at the start of the 21st century the three most crucial markets weren't being served. New York, Philly and D.C.'s representative programs had all collapsed due to mismanagement and neglect. Big East hoops TV leverage was at an all-time low. Meanwhile the hoops-only members of the league never warmed to the new all-sports members, and tensions in the league remained high.

So against this backdrop, the ACC targeted Miami as the school ripe for picking. Miami was always vulnerable, due to its geographic distance from the rest of the conference. But mainly this was about money, gobs of it. Miami quickly realized that membership in the ACC, and the TV windfall it would bring would be immensely benficial to them. They also knew that with the major market hoops programs floundering, the Big East's TV deal would not grow during its next negotiation (and in fact, it did not).

So Miami was left with a rather obvious decision, take the money and run. Had Big East hoops remained strong in the major markets who knows how the story could have ended. Is it improbable to think had NY, Philly and D.C. been represented by top 20 programs the hoops deal for TV would have been more lucrative? Would that leverage lead to a better football deal (a tactic the ACC employs, I might add) for a league that had already arguable become the #5 conference in the nation? Would that additional revenue have been enough for Miami to tell the ACC to go Edited up the proverbial rope? Its impossible to say of course.

But what we do know is that by allowing these "cornerstone" programs of the Big East to falter, the league never had a chance to fend off that hostile raid.

So G'Town fans, as you wrap yourself in the blanket of self-righteousnous, as you proudly proclaim that we are chasing the football dollar and the expense of our souls, please remember your own institutions culpability in all of this. And let that blanket keep you warm at night a few years from now, as you play Holy Cross in front of 3,000 fans. Its really the choice you made for yourself."

syracuse.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1369&mid=46570504&sid=&tid=46570504&style=1

[TBird41]

so basically, what they're saying is that, w/o us, they suck? B/c obviously, a school in upstate NY w/ a pretty good bball program and a ok football team is wanted by everyother conference...don't they realize that cuse doesn't matter? No one cares about their football, and their bball team is continuing it's slow decline back into the mediocrity from whence it came (1 yr of Warrick, 2 yrs of Mcnamara, then badness).

[SFHoya99]

So let me get this straight...Don't blame us because we're greedy and you didn't give us enough money? That's a quality argument. Apparently, Syracuse's mission is to seek the most money and has no free will whatsoever.

[hoyadestroya]

Sup Hoyas! Hey, I'm a Hoya fan living in Syracuse, unfortunately, but at least I get a chance to go to the game!!! I was so pumped the last time the Hoyas came to the Dome and won. I got the worst looks at the Dome but loved it! Anyone else going? Let's harrass the Orange!

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

That guy is legally retarded. Let me see if I get this straight - its Georgetown's fault that we lost Miami and Virginia Tech.

Let's examine the loss of Virginia Teach and Miami and whether it was a bad thing and then we'll talk about whether it was Georgetown's fault.

Let's compare the TV markets that the old Big East reached.

New York - #1 market
Philadelphia - #4
New Jersey Connector Market - #4
Boston - #6
DC - #8
Miami - #15
Pittsburgh - #21
Hartford - #28
Providence - #49
Roanoke - #67
Syracuse - #81
South Bend - #87
Charleston - #108


The New Big East

New York - #1
Chicago - #3
Philadelphia - #4
New Jersey Connector Market - #4
DC - #8
Tampa Bay - #14
Pittsburgh - #21
Hartford - #28
Cinncinnati - #32
Millwaukee - #33
Memphis - #41
Providence - #49
Louisville - #50
Roanoke - #67
Syracuse - #81
South Bend - #87
Charleston - #108

The big changes are we dropped the Boston market (#6) and replaced it with Chicago (#3), we dropped Miami (#15) and replaced it with Tampa Bay (#14), we lost Virginia Tech (#67) and replaced it with Cinncinnati (#32), Milwaukee (#33), and Louisville (#50). Wow I'm sorry we screwed up your league by giving it a bigger TV market.

Secondly, is Georgetown responsible for the decision of Virginia Tech and Miami to leave? When was the last time Miami and Virginia Tech made it to the final of the BE? How often did Miami and VT even make it to the BE tournament? Were BE hoops really all that weak when UCONN won the national title in the last year that VT and Miami were in the BE? Do you even TEXTTEXTthinkTEXTTEXT that the Miami and VT Presidents thought "Well we're really football schools and we're getting invited to join a football-first conference ... I wonder how hoops are doing (checks bigeast.org) ... hmmm Georgetown has only been to the NIT lately - well it's official - let's go to the ACC."

I ask you Syracuse fans - if the ACC was such a good fit for you why didn't you join it? Or why not the Big 10? - Oh right, neither of those football-first conferences actually invited you ... you know why? You don't have a top 50 tv market and you don't actually compete all that well in football. Now I know, you had Donnovan McNabb - sort of like how you have Warrick and Mac right now - but once he left it was back to mediocrity - sort of like where the basketball team is heading after they're gone.

GO HOYAS! BEAT 'CUSE!

[jerseyhoya34]

If they want a multi-sport conference, their first call should be to McGill.

[GUHoya07]

Thank you joshs2681 for laying the smack down on the Cuse board. It's now my early leader for post of the year!

"When will you learn...

....that boeheim's recent success doesn't make you guys "better" than us or "above" our rivalry. I've sat here for two days and watched you berate two young men from Georgetown who simply were looking for a good ol' fashion debate with some opposing fans. Maybe they won't say it but I will. I could personally give a rat's [EDITED] what you think about the rivalry. The fact is that for many years you were our [EDITED], and for the past few we have been yours. College basketball goes in cycles, and when that whiny weasel of a coach you have retires I'm sure there will be a fall-off in your program. For now, the Hoyas are on the upswing, and if it takes a few wins over you guys to help you learn what the word humility is than so be it. Are football team is D1-AA...we know. Your football team is D-1...awesome. This isn't football season and the new big east has just begun. So before you go running your mouth about everything changing why don't we try to make it through a year first. The orangemen and their fans have been [EDITED] since as long as I can remember. The only redeeming thing about Syracuse is...forget it, I can't remember what that thing was. If we are just the chumps you claim, then I don't mind being the chumps that closed Manley Fieldhouse on your punk [EDITED]. Wednesday Headline: Syra-Excuses! The Orangmen and their Message Board explain their loss to the Hoyas! You guys can read, right? My mistake, that's the class Edelin passed."

syracuse.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1369&mid=46603757&sid=&tid=46603757&style=1

[jerseyhoya34]

I'm done with posting on their board. Some of them are good people, but the vast majority aren't. The conversations I've had with folks on there have just degenerated, and the blame lies on both sides, admittedly.

[IceHoya]

GUHoya2007 said:

Follow along Hoya fans, its time for your introduction to major collegiate athletics. There will be a quiz afterwards, but its open book."

Well, I mean hey, at least it's open book right? I don't know how Georgetown kids would be able to handle those Syracuse people intellectually if the quiz wasn't open book. Thanks guys!

[Simian Prime]

Well put GUHoya2007...well put.

Let them believe, let them assume, let them know they will crush us...let them make orange juice for my vodka.

[lichoya68]

lets settle this on the court at their house and silence them will be tough you know but but but if jeff and brandon double doubles and hibbs steps up then rest of them is the usual cook.. owens .. wallace and reeds help go hoyas settle the arguement on their court beat cuse

[Cambridge]

Correction, by dropping BC we did not loose the Boston market as Providence and UConn are considered "home" teams for Boston and most games are on TV featuring those teams.

[kchoya]

CambridgeHoya said:

Correction, by dropping BC we did not loose the Boston market as Providence and UConn are considered "home" teams for Boston and most games are on TV featuring those teams.

I may be slow getting started this morning, but how do we pick up the Charleston market?

[jerseyhoya34]

Charleston, WV... It confused me too at first.

[kchoya]

Ok. I'm trying to think of which school is in South Carolina.

They have electricty for TV's in West Virginia?

[colbee]

Ok...cuse fan here..id like to reply specifically to a commom theme ive noticed in the thoughts of tbird41 and st petersburghoya...but first let me say this for the record..your angry replies to a couple of dumb posts on our board seek to indict all cuse fans...im 41 years old and have been bleeding orange since i was 5..i think i can speak for most su fans when i say that we have nothing but respect for the hoyas...you were the boogie men to a generation of central new yorkers..we loved to hate you ,but we always respected you...and that is the way it should be among big east warriors...while the rivalry may have simmered a little as you all had some unhoya like years...and i wont lie the national championship quelled some of our insecurities....beating the hoyas will always mean alot to us...and i promise you coach boehiem and the players wouldnt dare take you lightly......i for one think its classier to go the mutual respect route....to nudge tbird41 and st petehoya in that direction.....i ask ..is there any evidence over the last 30 years to suggest that 2 players graduating will send us "back" to mediocrity?syracuse under boehiem has averaged 24.8 victories per season over 28 years..our pragram has won at least 20 games in 31 out of the last 35 years..in that time weve been to 4 final fours and 3 nc games....also 12 sweet 16s in that time...weve always been in the upper eshelon of the conference without a let down...we lead the big east in all time conf wins..year in and year out since 1972 weve fielded exciting competative teams.hardly mediocre...next year we still have edelin and gmac at gaurds roberts,mcroskey nichols,wright.watkins.....devendorf and mayben are top 50 recruits...no reason to think we wont keep getting quailty guys..and oh yeah coach boehiem still at the helm.so i would just say that the vast majority of cuse fans respect all that is hoya...but i must respectfully demand the same in return...godspeed

[Frank Black]

COLBEE: DERH DUH DUH DUH ME LIKE SYRACUSE DERH DUH DERH DERH

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