RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 1, 2006 12:47:01 GMT -5
LeBron James in this style of play isn't worthy of being on the team, let along logging big minutes and I believe he should've been MVP last year of the NBA--he just doesn't fit in because he's not a strong enough shooter at this time to make defenses pay. In Cleveland, he's a volume shooter and streaky, but the most disturbing part of his game was how he was abused by the Greece players on defensive end. Guy crossed him, step back, and drains 3 in his face, and then blows by him for easy layup on next possession. Carmelo Anthony can't defend anyone. Wade is a marginal shooter and was exposed on defensive end. Paul was terrible--in every aspect.
What you see in International Play is when game is pure basketball--a lot of United States players can't flourish because it's not "entertainment". They don't get bailed out for their failures due to name on back of jersey--they have to hit shots. They don't get those extra 8 minutes to play and "turn it on"--it's a 40 minute game and you better be ready to play. Being named a great "Defender" in the NBA often means you get a lot of steals-it's bad defense and leaves people open.
USA Basketball would be smart to hire someone like Pete Carrill who understands how to play TEAM BASKETBALL, then it would Coach K or any other "glorified whiner". Young players in this country don't have a clue how to play--they can do flashy things and master one aspect, but they don't become complete players as NBA/Agents try to push these guys as "legends" before they earn it. I've seen LeBron James do some spectacular things--but he's also been absolutely terrible in International Basketball. Wade doesn't have Shaq to clear his path to hoop and he's a shaky shooter. Anthony is a great shooter/scorer and that's it. Battier is too slow and brings no offense. Brad Miller, Antawn Jamison, and Joe Johnson have no business on this team. Bosh, Brand, and Howard were limited by Coach K's inability to understand how to use post players. Chris Paul is hyped as next coming and he shouldn't have made the team--he stunk and brings absolutely no history of winning a big game at any point in his career.
Iverson is hated due to his skin color and attitude that he doesn't need to be "Mr. Whitefolks" to appease anyone. He is what he is, and that is why that he's immensely popular with fans across the world--it's not always pretty and often it makes you cringe if you follow/support him but at least it's honest/real instead of rehearsed and phony. And in events internationally AI's "real" view of things and unpolished speaking came off as some of the most classy stuff I've seen from an athlete. He truly was respectful of his opportunity, opponents, and cared. Larry Brown behaved like the idiot he is, Tim Duncan was not effective at all, and rest of team was not ready--Wade, LeBron, Stoudemire, or has no game to fit the style of play--Shawn Marion or no game at all--Marbury.
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Sept 1, 2006 12:59:35 GMT -5
While I’m disappointed in the USA team’s loss, it seems as if folk who’ve responded on this board don’t care to give the Greek team enough credit for their victory. Comments like “It’s Greece for Christ’s sake” suggest that we lost to a weak sister. Au contraire. That squad may not have familiar names to us, but make no mistake; they play an excellent brand of international basketball. In fact, they are the reigning European champions. And, to be honest, I am not surprised we lost. I look at the team as a work in progress. It has a core of players that I think played very well in this tournament, generally speaking, and established a foundation upon which it can clearly build. Call me an optimist, but I don’t think we lose next time out. Well stated, AvantGuard. I've watched all of Greece's games in this tournament and last year's Euro championship. They play smart, tenacious basketball. In fact, in predicting the upset to some of my buddies yesterday, I said that in some ways, Greece reminds me of III's teams. Not that they run the Princeton offense, but they are schooled to take advantage of mismatches and the opponent's weaknesses, and they execute with a team cohesiveness that is seldom matched. Having been at the Phone Booth on January 21st, I was pretty confident that the Rat would not be able to make the midgame adjustments necessary in this game. And of course he didn't, he just went to the usual pinched-face cuss at the refs mode.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 1, 2006 13:19:55 GMT -5
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 1, 2006 14:07:17 GMT -5
I am sick and tired of losing in International competition. Lately we can't field a championship team/player in much of anything. I honestly thought that this basketball team would overcome that trend but obviously not. Ironically it was their tenacious defense that really stood out to me in earlier games against Italy and Slovenia, but once we made it to the "medal round" that same defense took the night off. That was embarrassing. On the larger scale, I am ready for us to win SOMETHING. I hope it is the Ryder Cup in a few weeks. We have been on a low note for a while though. Davis Cup Tennis has come up short in recent years. Our soccer was very much of a disappointment. The Basketball fiasco in the last Olympics and now in the world championships is unacceptable. The afforementioned Ryder Cup has stayed on the other side of the pond for a decade. Even in individual competition we have fallen short. Aside from the run by the Williams sisters, American tennis players are playing kid sister to the rest of the world. About the only winner we have had recently is that man called Tiger, and even he has been a major disappointment in the past couple of Ryder Cups. I don't demand perfection, but come on ... this is ridiculous.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Sept 1, 2006 14:11:21 GMT -5
Finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes, eh? Eh comrades? Eh?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2006 14:21:12 GMT -5
I am sick and tired of losing in International competition. Lately we can't field a championship team/player in much of anything. I honestly thought that this basketball team would overcome that trend but obviously not. Ironically it was their tenacious defense that really stood out to me in earlier games against Italy and Slovenia, but once we made it to the "medal round" that same defense took the night off. That was embarrassing. On the larger scale, I am ready for us to win SOMETHING. I hope it is the Ryder Cup in a few weeks. We have been on a low note for a while though. Davis Cup Tennis has come up short in recent years. Our soccer was very much of a disappointment. The Basketball fiasco in the last Olympics and now in the world championships is unacceptable. The afforementioned Ryder Cup has stayed on the other side of the pond for a decade. Even in individual competition we have fallen short. Aside from the run by the Williams sisters, American tennis players are playing kid sister to the rest of the world. About the only winner we have had recently is that man called Tiger, and even he has been a major disappointment in the past couple of Ryder Cups. I don't demand perfection, but come on ... this is ridiculous. Hifi - are you sure you want to see the US win the Ryder Cup? Have you already forgotten the INTERNATIONAL EMBARASSMENT that was Justin Leonard's celebratory "leap" in '99??? Be careful what you wish for... Do they even still play the Davis Cup? Kinda sad that tennis has become about as relevant as boxing... Agree with most of the sentiment here about Team USA hoops. On the one hand, I'm in no way embarassed for losing to Greece, or Argentina, or Spain, or any of the other countries that have "caught" the US in terms of team play (despite the US having a significant edge in on-paper talent). The fact of the matter is, there is something to be said for guys playing together for years on end and the European (and some South American) teams have proven that consistently over the past decade or so. What I think IS embarassing, as someone already pointed out, is HOW they lost to Greece. The coaching was horrendous, no adjustments were made... and as many of us who watched both games noticed, it looked a lot like the G'Town-Duke game in January when Coach AmEx failed to make any adjustments when his team's weaknesses were exposed. There is no excuse for this team giving up 100+ points. The best point made so far was that while the USA is bound to have an off night shooting the ball, they should never be that swiss cheese-like on D.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 1, 2006 14:43:23 GMT -5
Pretty much agree with you there, Buff. Amazing isn't it? But seriously, I haven't watched the whole game, but I Tivod it and replayed most of it this morning. It really almost looked like a lack of effort. I am not saying that the guys were sandbagging it or were knowingly giveing less than 100% effort, but something wasn't right. I wonder if the wins came too easily leading up to this game. What was the closest score prior? 19 points I think. In any case it is back to the drawing board. On a positive note, the point all along was to get the team ready for Beijing. Up until now, we have been putting our team together and then they only play essentially the one tournament together. The "3 year" plan is a good idea in the long run imo. But I sure would have liked to have won this one as well.
And YES, I do want to win the Ryder Cup. Personally I had very little problem with Justin's excitement. Hell I was jumping up and down in my living room, knocking over lamps and the sort. Justin apologized and it wasn't right to create that distraction before Olazabal had his chance to tie it with his put. Still that was emotion overcoming rational or cognizant thought.
What I also remember was Colin walking towards the clubhouse, as he watched the celebration making the comment "I don't know how you live here." Gee Colin, what is it? The indoor plumbing and cold beer or the fact that the women shave their armpits?
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 1, 2006 14:47:14 GMT -5
To finish the thought, the point was that Leonard's actions were unintentional and the result of human emotion. He saw his error and apologized and Olazabal accepted and said that it didn't matter a bit. Colin on the other hand, made a concious decision to insult the Country and in doing it showed himself to be the pompous jackass that he is inside. The irony is that he really has very little to be pompous about.
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Sept 1, 2006 16:01:52 GMT -5
Buff, hifi, totally agree on the coaching. Could not believe the lack of a strategic time out by coach AmEx, and the failure to defend the high screen and roll is unfathomable. I was literally screaming at the TV at one point, 4:00 in the morning! I was so totally wishing I had someone I could call at that hour to bitch and moan to....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2006 17:01:00 GMT -5
To finish the thought, the point was that Leonard's actions were unintentional and the result of human emotion. He saw his error and apologized and Olazabal accepted and said that it didn't matter a bit. Colin on the other hand, made a concious decision to insult the Country and in doing it showed himself to be the pompous jackass that he is inside. The irony is that he really has very little to be pompous about. It wasn't the emotion I had a problem with. I understand that within golf ettiquite that was "unacceptable," but I had no problem with it. Hell, golf NEEDS more Happy Gilmore. My problem was how... um... not-straight(?)... he looked. Gimmie a fist pump. Gimmie a putter-as-sword swashbuckle. Gimmie a round of high-fives with the gallery. Anything but that lady-like jumping/running display. A disgrace to golfers/Americans everywhere. Set back the golfers-as-athletes/golf-as-sport argument a good decade. Back to Coach AmEx, I wanted to echo something RDF mentioned with regards to post players. Throughout the entire tournament, I'd find myself remarking to my father, "Isn't our boy Bosh (who we get to see play quite often as we get Canadian TV) on the team? Where the hell is Dwight Howard?" Its amazing how little these supposed stars played. There was one point where my dad and I were watching the TiVo'd game this morning when Greece was running pick-and-roll after pick-and-roll to success, and he said "Wouldn't it be easy to stop these by going zone and putting Brand or Howard in the middle?" I replied, "Yes, but then again that's all Coach AmEx had to do against G'Town and they very well could have won that game. The guy is a fruad." All my dad could muster in return: "Yup." Again, I have no problem losing to Greece or any of the elite international teams. But it is INEXCUSABLE for any team to score 100 on that squad. Talent alone should smother their opponents, and on the rare occasion that breaks down reasonable adjustments should do the trick (here, why not try a zone - isn't that what Boewhine was on the staff for?!).
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Sept 1, 2006 17:57:48 GMT -5
RBHoya, You make some good points in your comments above. I would think that AI is somewhere smiling about this despite those guys being his friends on the time. Can you are someone here explain to me why he was in my opinion the poster boy for why we lost in 2004 when it was evident that he and Tim Duncan seem to be the only ones who even cared and played the best. Thanks, Eblack This is just my opinion, and I know I'm a probably biased, but simply put: because his name is Allen Iverson. People STILL see the ink, remember the "practice" rant, claim he's one of the worst team-players around, call him a thug, think he's everything wrong with professional athletes today, et cetera ad nauseam. Nevermind he changed the way he plays year in and year out with the Sixers (#1 option, has to score 30+ for that sorry franchise to win) to accomodate Team USA (distributed more, played a traditional point role). Its the same reason people rooted against JT back in '88 - some people just don't like others and will look for any reason to take a crap on them. I agree 100%. I was talking about this with my brother today. If Iverson's name was Ganu Minobili and he was from Argentina everyone would love the energy, speed and aggression of the player.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 1, 2006 20:49:36 GMT -5
Still no sympathy for Arenas and his self-serving comments only make him look worse.
That being said I'm glad (for the first time ever) that Team USA lost BECAUSE o how it all went down with the selection of players and how AI was snubbed.
Its strange. The word was that Team USA was going to choose shooters this time around, not penetrators like AI and Marbury, But almost all the guards for USA were better at driving to the hole than shooting. You might as well have picked Iverson in that case.
Next all I read about was Chris Paul, team player. A guy who makes everyone better unlike Iverson. A guy who would show how bad the Iversons of the world are by leading the USA to gold. Blah, blah, blah. Well, where was this great player? What did he do? Soon the media are going to ahve to judge him by his results in big games, not on the tearjerkerish death of his grandad.
As some of us have been saying for years now, K's coaching has gotten considerably worst. His last great effort was his inspiring his Duke team to overcomethe injury of Carlos Boozer to win the ACC and the NCAA Championship that same season. But since then its been downhill and that championship of 2001 started the plunge. K became an early 90s Rick Pitino wannabe. Most of his teams these days are three-point shot happy. That's why his 2002 team did not win it all and why Jason Williams became less of enticing prospect in my eyes: too much reliance on the long jumpshot. RDF is right in that K doesn't even have legit gameplans anymore and his lack of attention towards the interior game is puzzling. You can tell in losses that K doesn't seem to do much coaching (check out defeats to Maryland over the past four years or that horrid display against LSU in the Sweet Sixteen this past spring). I have tapes of those old Laettner teams and the level of coaching was obviously so much better for Duke.
By the way in the summer of '90 K lost twice: in the Goodwill Games and in the World Games. So he has now lost with college players and pros.
The 2003 team that compated for Team USA, the one that was supposed to compete in Athens but fear over terrorist attacks left the team with only two of its original players (Iverson and Duncan), that team would not ahve lost to Greece. Period.
A writer for Sports Illustrated.com wasdead right when he predicted two weeks ago that Team USA would lose because it didn't run any half-court plays. I gotta go back and find his name.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Sept 1, 2006 21:06:39 GMT -5
I'm glad you mentioned his 1990 stint as head coach, MCI, which 99% of the basketball world has chosen to forget. I'm pretty sure his bronze in the 1990 World Championship, his silver in the 1990 Goodwill Games, and this latest result have to make Coach K the losingest coach in USA basketball history.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 1, 2006 22:43:07 GMT -5
Still no sympathy for Arenas and his self-serving comments only make him look worse. That being said I'm glad (for the first time ever) that Team USA lost BECAUSE o how it all went down with the selection of players and how AI was snubbed. Its strange. The word was that Team USA was going to choose shooters this time around, not penetrators like AI and Marbury, But almost all the guards for USA were better at driving to the hole than shooting. You might as well have picked Iverson in that case. Next all I read about was Chris Paul, team player. A guy who makes everyone better unlike Iverson. A guy who would show how bad the Iversons of the world are by leading the USA to gold. Blah, blah, blah. Well, where was this great player? What did he do? Soon the media are going to ahve to judge him by his results in big games, not on the tearjerkerish death of his grandad. As some of us have been saying for years now, K's coaching has gotten considerably worst. His last great effort was his inspiring his Duke team to overcomethe injury of Carlos Boozer to win the ACC and the NCAA Championship that same season. But since then its been downhill and that championship of 2001 started the plunge. K became an early 90s Rick Pitino wannabe. Most of his teams these days are three-point shot happy. That's why his 2002 team did not win it all and why Jason Williams became less of enticing prospect in my eyes: too much reliance on the long jumpshot. RDF is right in that K doesn't even have legit gameplans anymore and his lack of attention towards the interior game is puzzling. You can tell in losses that K doesn't seem to do much coaching (check out defeats to Maryland over the past four years or that horrid display against LSU in the Sweet Sixteen this past spring). I have tapes of those old Laettner teams and the level of coaching was obviously so much better for Duke. By the way in the summer of '90 K lost twice: in the Goodwill Games and in the World Games. So he has now lost with college players and pros. The 2003 team that compated for Team USA, the one that was supposed to compete in Athens but fear over terrorist attacks left the team with only two of its original players (Iverson and Duncan), that team would not ahve lost to Greece. Period. A writer for Sports Illustrated.com wasdead right when he predicted two weeks ago that Team USA would lose because it didn't run any half-court plays. I gotta go back and find his name. MCI, one thing you touched on that I find interesting is that you felt the same way I did--and was actually GLAD that this team lost. How sad is it that 2 NBA fans--who actually like the game unlike many--get to this point? I talked with MANY that felt the same due to either their hate of Coach K, their dislike of players on the team, or just the fact Vitale would be unbearable if Coach K won this--it would be enough to solve Middle East, Gas Prices, and Katrina in one--just send K. All I can say is that Iverson was the model of what this country is about in Olympics--he competed, played well, respected opponents, and stood tall in victory and defeat. He was everything OTHERS SAY these other guys are--and never have proven. For him to not get invited to TRYOUT--let alone make the team is what enraged me--he wanted to play again, and would set aside his time to do so--but the lack of respect for him/his game is evident. All I can say is you put him in a Blonde Wig with hair down to his shoulders--okay for argument's sake, let's just say perm his hair now, paint him in white face, airbrush the tats, and call him Allenikov Iversoninsky---the entire media/basketball public would DEMAND that he put into a tryout-if not make the team. Guy gives 2 of his best seasons and some of the best produced on court in terms of pts, assists, and with absolutely NOTHING IN TERMS OF HELP and he gets shunned like he's garbage in favor of Paul--and while some might cringe at MCI's description--I have to applaud it--the Dead Grandpa story is tired and was HS--Paul is same guy who punched Julius Hodge in groin, loses big games, and doesn't make other better. Coach K and Team USA both can go to hell as far as I'm concerned and I only hope they lose and don't bring home any medal. Maybe the media will start to see things as they are--which is a popularity contest that is CREATING stars/legends out of people who can't perform when actually asked to back up what is said about them.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Sept 1, 2006 23:06:43 GMT -5
Still no sympathy for Arenas and his self-serving comments only make him look worse. That being said I'm glad (for the first time ever) that Team USA lost BECAUSE o how it all went down with the selection of players and how AI was snubbed. Its strange. The word was that Team USA was going to choose shooters this time around, not penetrators like AI and Marbury, But almost all the guards for USA were better at driving to the hole than shooting. You might as well have picked Iverson in that case. Next all I read about was Chris Paul, team player. A guy who makes everyone better unlike Iverson. A guy who would show how bad the Iversons of the world are by leading the USA to gold. Blah, blah, blah. Well, where was this great player? What did he do? Soon the media are going to ahve to judge him by his results in big games, not on the tearjerkerish death of his grandad. As some of us have been saying for years now, K's coaching has gotten considerably worst. His last great effort was his inspiring his Duke team to overcomethe injury of Carlos Boozer to win the ACC and the NCAA Championship that same season. But since then its been downhill and that championship of 2001 started the plunge. K became an early 90s Rick Pitino wannabe. Most of his teams these days are three-point shot happy. That's why his 2002 team did not win it all and why Jason Williams became less of enticing prospect in my eyes: too much reliance on the long jumpshot. RDF is right in that K doesn't even have legit gameplans anymore and his lack of attention towards the interior game is puzzling. You can tell in losses that K doesn't seem to do much coaching (check out defeats to Maryland over the past four years or that horrid display against LSU in the Sweet Sixteen this past spring). I have tapes of those old Laettner teams and the level of coaching was obviously so much better for Duke. By the way in the summer of '90 K lost twice: in the Goodwill Games and in the World Games. So he has now lost with college players and pros. The 2003 team that compated for Team USA, the one that was supposed to compete in Athens but fear over terrorist attacks left the team with only two of its original players (Iverson and Duncan), that team would not ahve lost to Greece. Period. A writer for Sports Illustrated.com wasdead right when he predicted two weeks ago that Team USA would lose because it didn't run any half-court plays. I gotta go back and find his name. MCI, one thing you touched on that I find interesting is that you felt the same way I did--and was actually GLAD that this team lost. How sad is it that 2 NBA fans--who actually like the game unlike many--get to this point? I talked with MANY that felt the same due to either their hate of Coach K, their dislike of players on the team, or just the fact Vitale would be unbearable if Coach K won this--it would be enough to solve Middle East, Gas Prices, and Katrina in one--just send K. All I can say is that Iverson was the model of what this country is about in Olympics--he competed, played well, respected opponents, and stood tall in victory and defeat. He was everything OTHERS SAY these other guys are--and never have proven. For him to not get invited to TRYOUT--let alone make the team is what enraged me--he wanted to play again, and would set aside his time to do so--but the lack of respect for him/his game is evident. All I can say is you put him in a Blonde Wig with hair down to his shoulders--okay for argument's sake, let's just say perm his hair now, paint him in white face, airbrush the tats, and call him Allenikov Iversoninsky---the entire media/basketball public would DEMAND that he put into a tryout-if not make the team. Guy gives 2 of his best seasons and some of the best produced on court in terms of pts, assists, and with absolutely NOTHING IN TERMS OF HELP and he gets shunned like he's garbage in favor of Paul--and while some might cringe at MCI's description--I have to applaud it--the Dead Grandpa story is tired and was HS--Paul is same guy who punched Julius Hodge in groin, loses big games, and doesn't make other better. Coach K and Team USA both can go to hell as far as I'm concerned and I only hope they lose and don't bring home any medal. Maybe the media will start to see things as they are--which is a popularity contest that is CREATING stars/legends out of people who can't perform when actually asked to back up what is said about them. I agree 100% with this post.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Sept 4, 2006 8:34:09 GMT -5
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 7, 2006 19:13:58 GMT -5
You knew it was coming--Coach K did a press conference (not sure if it was for papers or not??) and assured everyone he was "made to be a College Coach" and that "he's happy where he is, not going to be tempted by NBA".
So as only "K" can do--he threw his players to the slaughter. In other words, it wasn't "my system", it was the "dreaded NBA players" who couldn't come together as a fist.
This guy never takes any accountability, he never ceases to amaze me at his arrogance either. The man campaigns through people like Dick Vitale for the job, gets it, and fails to deliver--AGAIN---and yet comes home and has the nerve to throw this out there. He does it in a subtle way and it can be said those who don't like him are interpreting it, but I guarantee you we're going to hear 2 excuses from Vitale on his behalf this season:
1. Some guys on this team weren't committed to his system and will not be back
2. Kobe Bryant's absence was only reason we didn't win.
I believe Kobe is best player in World and likely he'd have made a difference--but this is a cop-out. Larry Brown lost 3/4 of the team he had in Tournament of Americas and nobody mentioned this, so why now with K?? Believe me, I despise Larry Brown too, but this is about Rat Boy and his teflon image. People can talk all they want about "chemistry"--talent is what matters in 90% of sporting events and US squad had enough chemistry to get an 11 pt lead 13 minutes into the game--they didn't lose it due to chemistry--they lost to inept coaching and failure to adjust. The only fist I want to hear about is the one that will bash K's ugly rodent like face.
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