K gets similar results to JT II

[DanMcQ]

Greece Dumps the Duke System , 101-95


How will Dukie V explain away this one? And will K be vilified as Coach Thompson was? Don't bet on it.


www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2006/09/01/greece_stun_us_to_reach_world_final/

[RBHoya]

No, I highly doubt it. Larry Brown wasn't, really. And I doubt anyone from the US team is singled-out like Iverson (and to be fair, Marbury) for being "selfish" and hence the cause of the teams problems.

I wonder where they'll go from here? Even the almighty Coach K couldn't get it done. What a disappointment.

[aggypryd]

I went against what I said I wouldn't do, and cheered for Coach K and the USA squad...(damned Patriotism)

But I can honestly say that I'm glad he didn't get the chance to one-up Big John.

I would really love to hear what commentators like Bill Walton and Joe Theisman will say about this teams failure to capture the gold medal. They had some very nonflattering things to say about the 2004 squad.

[TBird41]

What, you mean that the geniuses behind the vaunted 'Cuse 2-3 Zone and Duke's pressure man to man weren't enough?

Then again, it's gotta be a lot harder to "work" the refs if they don't speak your language.

[DanMcQ]

The really ironic thing is that Greece beat the NBA players with a simple NBA game: the pick and roll. Guess slapping the floor with two hands is not the answer for that one.

[FrazierFanatic]

This is clearly all JTII's fault. If he hadn't fostered an atmosphere of defeat, we would never have lost this game, not to mention the other Olympic and World Championship games.

[Elvado]

Maybe K can figure out a way to blame this one on Pete Gaudet. Let's see how the media manages to bail him out on this one. It's Greece for Christ's sake. At least Big John lost to the Russians (with college kids).

[Boz]

But 'Melo scored a lot of points in this tourney, so it's not a total loss.

I actually think now would be a great time to hand Team USA back over to college players.

No one in this country is interested in this tournament anymore. Our pros are not head and shoulders better than other professional national teams. They don't play together as much and that's just the way it's going to be. Not saying we won't ever win again with our pro players, I'm sure we will. But it's not a foregone conclusion anymore and never will be again.

On the other hand, we send up a bunch of veteran college players against other countries' pros, I think you automatically get Americans interested in watching this again. Maybe they'll get their asses handed to them. But think about the excitement if they do play well. Maybe it's just me, but I know I'd be more interested

Then again, there are really no more amateur athletes anymore, sure as hell not when it comes to basketball. So you might have the same problem. Players don't want to play because they don't want to jeopardize their potential draft status, etc. . .

Maybe we can put that 12-year old kid on the team. . . .if Nike says it's OK.

[FairfaxHoya]

danmcq said:

The really ironic thing is that Greece beat the NBA players with a simple NBA game: the pick and roll. Guess slapping the floor with two hands is not the answer for that one.

Where was Wojo when we needed him?

[NorthCarolinaHOYA]

RBHoya,

You make some good points in your comments above. I would think that AI is somewhere smiling about this despite those guys being his friends on the time. Can you are someone here explain to me why he was in my opinion the poster boy for why we lost in 2004 when it was evident that he and Tim Duncan seem to be the only ones who even cared and played the best.

Thanks,

Eblack

[AvantGuardHoya]

While I’m disappointed in the USA team’s loss, it seems as if folk who’ve responded on this board don’t care to give the Greek team enough credit for their victory. Comments like “It’s Greece for Christ’s sake” suggest that we lost to a weak sister. Au contraire. That squad may not have familiar names to us, but make no mistake; they play an excellent brand of international basketball. In fact, they are the reigning European champions.

And, to be honest, I am not surprised we lost. I look at the team as a work in progress. It has a core of players that I think played very well in this tournament, generally speaking, and established a foundation upon which it can clearly build. Call me an optimist, but I don’t think we lose next time out.

[Deleted]

northcarolinahoya said:

RBHoya,

You make some good points in your comments above. I would think that AI is somewhere smiling about this despite those guys being his friends on the time. Can you are someone here explain to me why he was in my opinion the poster boy for why we lost in 2004 when it was evident that he and Tim Duncan seem to be the only ones who even cared and played the best.

Thanks,

Eblack

This is just my opinion, and I know I'm a probably biased, but simply put: because his name is Allen Iverson. People STILL see the ink, remember the "practice" rant, claim he's one of the worst team-players around, call him a thug, think he's everything wrong with professional athletes today, et cetera ad nauseam.

Nevermind he changed the way he plays year in and year out with the Sixers (#1 option, has to score 30+ for that sorry franchise to win) to accomodate Team USA (distributed more, played a traditional point role). Its the same reason people rooted against JT back in '88 - some people just don't like others and will look for any reason to take a crap on them.

[Elvado]

No offense was meant to Greece. All offense was meant to the Grand Hypocrite from Durham and his willing supplicants in the media.

He lost with NBA pros. Big John lost with college kids. Let's see who gets the free pass.

[hoyalove4ever]

Koach Katan should take a lot of heat, and so should the players. It is a disgrace.

The fact that our defense lost the game for us is the worst part. Our defense ought to be our strength. We ought to press the baklava out of those bastards, and they ought to struggle to get good looks. I guess the defensive "specialists" such a Raisin-head Battier and Bruce Bozowen weren't all that helpful. We're going to have bad shooting nights. But no opponent should be scoring over 100 on us.

Back to the original topic, no WAY Katan gets the heat that Big John took. Big John's biggest mistake was not taking Alonzo, but it is understandable that he didn't risk taking a kid with no college experience to the Olympics. Katan and the other clowns at Team USA passed on Iverson, who has everything they are looking for in a player. But dookie V will have some sort of excuse.

Excuse me, I have to go vomit now.

[Gold Hoya]

Bowen didn't make the team. I didn't see the game and don't intend to watch it, but I wonder if there was any stubborn refusal to change what wasn't working involved. If K had just switched to a zone at halftime on Jan. 21 there is no way GU wins that game.

[RBHoya]

buffalohoya said:

northcarolinahoya said:

RBHoya,

You make some good points in your comments above. I would think that AI is somewhere smiling about this despite those guys being his friends on the time. Can you are someone here explain to me why he was in my opinion the poster boy for why we lost in 2004 when it was evident that he and Tim Duncan seem to be the only ones who even cared and played the best.

Thanks,

Eblack

This is just my opinion, and I know I'm a probably biased, but simply put: because his name is Allen Iverson. People STILL see the ink, remember the "practice" rant, claim he's one of the worst team-players around, call him a thug, think he's everything wrong with professional athletes today, et cetera ad nauseam.

Nevermind he changed the way he plays year in and year out with the Sixers (#1 option, has to score 30+ for that sorry franchise to win) to accomodate Team USA (distributed more, played a traditional point role). Its the same reason people rooted against JT back in '88 - some people just don't like others and will look for any reason to take a crap on them.

Pretty much. People still have it in their minds that AI is a thug, and they are eager to put the blame on him and call him selfish despite the fact that he totally gave everything for the 2004 Olympic team and did everything he was told to do, and was the best player. Coach K left him off this year's team, probably because he too believes the hype about AI rather than actually watching the guy leave everything on the floor for his country.


As for what the media will do with this.... how much you want to bet that Dickie V and the boys over at ESPN will be preaching about how desperately the team needed a pure shooter like one of his boys Redick or Morrison, rather than putting even an ounce of blame on the coaching staff that couldn't get it done with 2 of the 3 best and probably 9 or 10 of the 40 best players in the world right now?

[RDF]

I'll openly admit I was rooting AGAINST Team USA because of Coach Rat Boy and the hype/bullcrap that AI took--when in fact he was the only player who performed, represented the country with class--he always gave other teams credit, answered the questions with respect for International Basketball and actually took pride in being there. He also helped the Americans get a Bronze Medal--and Rat Boy and his "chosen ones" better focus or they'll get waxed by Argentina in the Bronze Game and have no medal.

Some things taken from watching this game:

1. Team USA played like a Duke Team--no interior presence, got murdered by good ball movement and gave up easy layups due to playing man to man when they weren't good enough on defense to do so.

2. Carmelo Anthony is actually in good shape and is going to have a monster year in Denver--he was the lone guy who showed up to play-Well Dwight Howard was good but he never gets the ball because Coach K doesn't have a clue how to coach interior offense.

3. Coach K is continuing on his downward spiral as a coach. He's not doing anything. If he can't intimidate officials and get calls, he really isn't a factor. There was no strategy, no altering of his approach--ala GU-Duke game last year and he just watched as Greece shot wide open jumpers and layups in Quarters 2-4. Greece had 14 pts at end of 1st Quarter--they scored 87 points in 30 minutes of basketball and mainly from the field. They outplayed the US in open court and US benefitted from getting some calls due to NBA reps--LeBron James commits a charging violation on any drive, and Wade got a few calls that he was in Playoffs or it's an even bigger margin of defeat.

4. Allen Iverson doesn't "fit" what Coach K is about--which is basically saying he's a "thug" which we all know is modern day language for something much worse and I'll leave it at that. K, Colangelo, and the rest of the "astute basketball minds" who now might not even win a medal that put this team together got "their guys"--and I don't want to hear about Kobe being hurt--the original team selected that Iverson played with over in Puerto Rico the summer prior to Olympics had Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Kobe--out due to injury there as well, and was playing excellent basketball and not challenged at all. Out of those mentioned--Iverson and Duncan were still around and rest was put together on fly due to NBA guys "needing a break".

5. Vitale will have his excuses ready--he always does when it comes to his hoop lover. Of course I'm still waiting for Vitale to mention his "steak dinner" bet with Stephen A. Smith that Luke Jackson was a better pick for Philly then Andre Iguodala.

6. Why is Jerry Colangelo in charge of USA Basketball? WTF has he done? I mean the Suns are now winning since he's NOT involved and always were mentally weak when he was running their franchise?

7. Coach K has failed again--he had same results in '90, so should we hammer Vitale with emails to bring back Pops since he "failed" against a Russian team that had Pros on it against college kids? Hmm......

8. Chris Paul was absolutely TERRIBLE. He can't defend anyone, didn't make a shot when needed, and for all of the hype, it holds up a trend he's had in his career--failure with teams expected to win--whenever he'd come in game to replace Heinrich, the team would get destroyed/Greece would lay off knowing he wouldn't shoot.

9. Wade acted like a punk after the game and walked off court, Anthony, Battier, Howard, were men. Respect that.

10. That Greek Shaq was a BEAST and if Clippers are smart, throw some money at him and get him over to States. That kid has great hands, runs floor well and basically plays like Big Baby Davis is hyped to play--except he's a legit 6'9 unlike Big Baby who is about 6'6. This kid dominated our bigs and can play in NBA now--he's only 21 and if you pit him with Brand--he'd be outstanding addition.

11. Where the hell was Elton Brand? He's a big with mid range jumper, played for K, and was nowhere to be seen--same with Chris Bosh--but that's coaching. You can't help a team if you don't play. He kept playing LeBron James and he can't shoot or play defense--at least that is what he showed in this game. Guy is a great talent--but man he's got a ways to go with that jumper.

Congrats to Greece, better team, better coaching staff, and smarter/better shooting players won and game wasn't as close as the score indicated.

[TigerHoya]

Anybody see Arenas' remarks after he was cut?

[BubbleVisionBiff]

No, what did Gil say? Thought the cut was b/c of a groin strain.

I thought the whole point of bringing K on was to help the US team work through and around screens and not give up open jumpers like we had in years past. Did Colangelo not also realize the overpursuing Puke scheme is vulnerable to good ball movement, and that someone would do to the US what GU did to Puke?

Guess we should have insisted on Jimmy B and the zone.

When does JTIII start getting mentioned as a national coach?

EDIT: Ah, saw Gil say he didn't get a fair tryout--
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/31/AR2006083101570.html

wonder what his exact beef was.

[TigerHoya]

ESPN ran this part last night which is what I was referring to originally:
I sacrificed. You've got LeBron being LeBron. You've got Carmelo being Carmelo. You've got D-Wade being D-Wade. Why can't I be me? Why do I have to transform? I did that and now you are going to cut me?"