|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 11:42:39 GMT -5
Post by BeantownHoya on Jun 22, 2006 11:42:39 GMT -5
|
|
CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 12:40:33 GMT -5
Post by CAHoya07 on Jun 22, 2006 12:40:33 GMT -5
This will be interesting... I feel a trainwreck comin' on. Knicks are in bad shape.
|
|
miamihoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 698
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 12:43:27 GMT -5
Post by miamihoya on Jun 22, 2006 12:43:27 GMT -5
i think the trainwrecked arrived a while back...this is just the continuation of a terribly managed francise.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,198
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 13:09:52 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Jun 22, 2006 13:09:52 GMT -5
Knicks = laughingstock. Sad to say, as I have always had a soft spot for this franchise, even though they did beat the Lakers twice for the title.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 13:32:20 GMT -5
Post by RBHoya on Jun 22, 2006 13:32:20 GMT -5
I keep thinking theyve reached the low point, and then it just keeps getting worse.
Hopefully this is as bad as it gets though. Hopefully if they're terrible this year, they fire Isiah totally and finally do the rebuild that they so desperately need but refuse to do.
And hopefully by then, Isiah hasn't ruined the team even worse, in terms of trading our young players/picks and acquiring attitude problems/grossly overpaid veterans that kill the cap.
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 13:34:27 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jun 22, 2006 13:34:27 GMT -5
Who's going to start trying to woo Brown to their team next? And who will he leave prematurely next? Like Colin Cowherd said, you knew what you were getting when you took him in the first place. If he was going to cheat with you, he's going to cheat on you.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,505
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 15:53:22 GMT -5
Post by DanMcQ on Jun 22, 2006 15:53:22 GMT -5
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 16:07:23 GMT -5
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jun 22, 2006 16:07:23 GMT -5
What could turn such a disaster of a franchise around?
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select...Roy Hibbert, center, Georgetown University.
|
|
miamihoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 698
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 17:59:35 GMT -5
Post by miamihoya on Jun 22, 2006 17:59:35 GMT -5
What could turn such a disaster of a franchise around? With the first pick in the 2008 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select...Roy Hibbert, center, Georgetown University. Oh god i hope not...I already hate the fact that one great hoya center played there and was largely responsible for spoiling my childhood memories of the Heat (make that 2006 Champions Heat...dont get tired of saying that). I sure hope Roy ends up somewhere better. Maybe he could take 'Zo's place on the Miami bench...
|
|
CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
|
Knicks
Jun 22, 2006 19:14:03 GMT -5
Post by CAHoya07 on Jun 22, 2006 19:14:03 GMT -5
What could turn such a disaster of a franchise around? With the first pick in the 2008 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select...Roy Hibbert, center, Georgetown University. Miami, I beg to differ. This would be... awesome.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Knicks
Jun 23, 2006 13:19:45 GMT -5
Post by TBird41 on Jun 23, 2006 13:19:45 GMT -5
What could turn such a disaster of a franchise around? With the first pick in the 2008 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select...Roy Hibbert, center, Georgetown University. Miami, I beg to differ. This would be... awesome. Keep the Knicks the F*** away from Roy. They already ruined Ewing's shot at an NBA title--they don't deserve a chance to ruin Roy's.
|
|
|
Knicks
Jun 24, 2006 15:12:37 GMT -5
Post by RockawayHoya on Jun 24, 2006 15:12:37 GMT -5
Miami, I beg to differ. This would be... awesome. Keep the Knicks the F*** away from Roy. They already ruined Ewing's shot at an NBA title--they don't deserve a chance to ruin Roy's. How the hell are the Knicks responsible for ruining Ewing's chances to win a title? They surrounded him with a team that should have won at least one title (were it not for "2 for 18" and Ewing's own blown missed finger roll against Indiana) and a coach (Riley) who had proven (including recently) that he had the goods to be a coach who could lead them to a championship. Don't get me wrong, I've been a lifelong Knicks fan and I love Patrick as a player. He did a lot of great things for us and our franchise, but if anything, Patrick cost himself the chance to win an NBA title when he failed to show up in some big games and some clutch situations. I would love to see Roy in a Knicks uniform. And I'm praying that Isiah's newfound coaching duties will at least prevent him from spending too much time to pursue horrendous deals that will set back the Knicks for another few years. I'm prepared to sit through 3-4 years of 25 win seasons as long as we don't add any more bad contracts. I just hope our front office is willing to do the same.
|
|
|
Knicks
Jun 25, 2006 19:59:58 GMT -5
Post by HoyaLawya on Jun 25, 2006 19:59:58 GMT -5
;D
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,736
|
Knicks
Jun 25, 2006 20:38:41 GMT -5
Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 25, 2006 20:38:41 GMT -5
Here's a more uplifting video from the Knicks:
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Knicks
Jun 25, 2006 21:04:27 GMT -5
Post by RBHoya on Jun 25, 2006 21:04:27 GMT -5
Hahaha, good stuff with that Isiah Ballad. As funny as the Isiah bashing is, and though I do think he is a pretty terrible GM, I still insist that the problem starts at the top. Dolan is the worst. The guy has the stupid "We can't rebuild" mentality, and it just doesn't work. If they had just gone with some young guys after Ewing left, they'd already have been contending for years now. But they resigned Houston to a huge deal. They got Glenn Rice, who turned to Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisely, to Keith Van Horn, who became Tim Thomas, to Eddie Curry. I mean, he just keeps digging in deeper; if he had scrapped the old bums after Ewing's time was up, who knows where they could be now. I really believe it's his thick headedness which has brought the Knicks to this point, as much as anything else (including Isiah's series of dumb moves). As such, there is a website that has been gaining some popularity among internet Knick fans: selltheknicks.com/My dream for the next basketball year is: --Hoyas win the NCAA title --Knicks are abysmal and Isiah gets the axe as both Coach and GM --The Bulls have a lot of injuries and have a very disappointing season, despite Mike Sweetney winning NBA's Most Improved Player --Jeff Green announces that despite his undying love for Georgetown University, he feels that he needs to go to the NBA draft. He will finish his degree by taking summer classes, when he comes back to Georgetown to train with Dikembe, Zo, Pat Sr. and Pat Jr., Sweetney, and all the current Hoyas. --The Knicks take Jeff Green with their lotto pick (Chicago's). He becomes the new centerpiece of the organization, as their new GM arranges a complete rebuilding effort. The Knicks are really, really hard to root for at this point. Other than the young guys (Nate, Frye, Lee) and maybe Crawford, I pretty much can't stand anybody on the team. If Jeff does come out next year, whatever team he goes to will probably become my new favorite, whichever team it is. Unless the Knicks do something between now and when he (or Roy) comes out to win me back (ie. replacing overpaid bums with hustle players, like the Knicks of my youth), not only will I be rooting for the Georgetown guys to succeed, but I think I'll start rooting for their teams too.
|
|
|
Knicks
Jun 25, 2006 23:08:21 GMT -5
Post by RockawayHoya on Jun 25, 2006 23:08:21 GMT -5
RB, I agree with ALMOST everything you say.
Dolan is most certainly the root of the problem. He is the biggest idiot in any front office today in sports. Isiah is a bonehead too, but any owner with a reasonable amount of common sense would have blocked some of the trades Isiah has proposed and eventually executed.
I'd love to see the Knicks take Jeff too, but unless Jeff breaks out with a monster junior year here or the Knicks decide to trade down, I don't see it happening (mainly because I don't see the Knicks winning more than 25 games next year).
And obviously, I'd love to see Isiah get the axe too. Aside from his ability to evaulate talent via the draft, he's been nothing but a disaster as a GM.
One thing I really have a problem with your post, RB, is the fact that you're willing to switch allegiances to whatever team Jeff or Ray is drafted by unless the Knicks improve next year. I can understand (and believe me, I UNDERSTAND) that the Knicks are really hard to root for right now, but I am totally against anyone who decides to replace his "favorite team" simply because they've been bad for an extended period of time. No true fan would say that, even if that team's front office isn't committed to winning. I just hope you're frustrated and saying things you don't mean. I don't have a problem rooting for ex-GU players who play for other teams and hoping they do well (ex. I still root for Big Mike and AI to do well), but I cannot ever, ever, EVER root for another team.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Knicks
Jun 26, 2006 0:28:41 GMT -5
Post by RBHoya on Jun 26, 2006 0:28:41 GMT -5
IDK. I have always been with you, sharing disdain for people who ditch their teams when they start to play poorly.
However, its not the Knicks poor play that is turning me off. I have stuck with them through these last couple of disgraceful seasons. And I guess I plan to stick with them down the line too. But the truth is, ever since I came to Georgetown, the Hoyas have far and away taken over the role of my favorite team in all of sports, the role that the Knicks used to have for the entirety of my life prior to coming to Georgetown.
It's just... it's not their losing that alienates me. I sat through a lot of years worth of really bad New York Giants teams, and it was no big deal to me. And I think I've handled the post-Ewing Knicks pretty well too (the Layden years when we tried to build around McDyess, and the present mess).... Though most people seem quick to mock the Knicks, I've stuck with them and never really thought of "converting". So IMO it isn't really the losing.
It's that I feel no connection at all to the players. As a kid, the Knicks were so easy to love. Ewing, Starks, Oak, LJ... they played the game with a real passion. And I loved that about them. I appreciated their hard work, and valued that, and strived to play with that same fire and passion when I'd play.
But those guys aren't there anymore. They've been replaced by the likes of "Me-first" Stephon Marbury, Quentin Richardson, Jalen Rose, Mo Taylor, Steve Francis, Eddy Curry, and Jerome "Big Snacks" James. Not a one of that bunch knows a damn thing about hustle.
At the same time, the Hoyas have filled the void for me. The first game I ever went to, Jeff Green just amazed me with the things he could, the grace he played with, and the quiet intensity that drove his game. And I knew on that day that Jeff Green would become my favorite athlete in the entire world. And he did. And he is. And that isn't going to change. And the same applies to Roy, though a hair away from being my favorite, the guy's passion for the game and work ethic are really, really impressive.
So, for the Knicks, I mean, I guess the question becomes... and I think Seinfeld used to do a bit about this.... for how long do you root for laundry (a uniform)? These guys, like Curry, and Marbury, and Francis, and James... they're wearing blue and orange and it says New York across the front, and they're playing in the same building... but I don't even like these guys. I have no affection for them. I have little to no respect for them. And it isn't, I don't think, because they lose, but because of HOW they lose. They don't hustle. They quit. They pout. They whine to the media. They try to push the blame to somebody else. They just don't have that heroic quality, which all great sports teams should have... because really, that's what sports are about on the most basic level... seeing somebody who you can root for, who you can relate to, and who you can see yourself being like, and rooting for them. If you can't relate to a player or a team, sports just don't have the same emotional foundation that make them great; and without the emotion, it's just a bunch of guys running back and forth with a round, inflated, orange thing for no good reason. Essentially, being able to relate is everything.
And I can't relate to these guys. So should I still root for them, just because they wear the same blue and orange? (For the record, that's not a rhetorical question, its something that I still sort of wrestle with.)
On the other hand, you've got Jeff Green, whom I can identify with completely. We go to/went to the same university. We lived in the same buildings. We had the same professors. We ate the same dining hall food. But most important, he plays like a hero. He hustles. He never quits. He's the consumate team player. He's got a strong desire to win. And he's got all the ability in the world. Basically, he plays the game in exactly the same way I'd like to think that I'd play it were I fortunate enough to be born with his height and athletic ability.
And that's what it's all about. I can relate to him, and that's why I can root so hard for him. There's no doubt that when he gets to the league, seeing him do well will be more important to me than seeing ANY team do well. And really, I just think that whatever's best for Jeff is what I'd want to see. And that's more than just personal accolades, its winning games too. I want him to be a winner, to be the guy who drives his team to a championship. Not just a numbers guy.
Where the Knicks fit in with my desire to see that happen... I haven't quite figured that out yet. But they are losing me, not with their lack of success on the court, but with the personality of the organization, from that jerk Dolan to the smug and moronic Thomas, right down through their aloof, overpaid, selfish, lazy players. And I suspect that if they don't act fast, they're going to lose more than just me. It's not that I or we don't like losers, it's just that the entirety of the organization is very difficult to cheer for.
|
|
|
Knicks
Jun 26, 2006 12:10:08 GMT -5
Post by RockawayHoya on Jun 26, 2006 12:10:08 GMT -5
RB, it seems we've led parallel lives, growing up rooting for the same teams and all. And I'm also one who has seen the Hoyas displace the Knicks as my favorite basketball team. But that doesn't mean the Knicks will ever be replaced as my favorite NBA team, no matter how Edited poor the effort of their players are or how moronic the front office of the organization is. Sure, its hard to root for any of the current Knicks because of their effort and attitude, but I'm still always going to want the guy wearing blue and orange to score and the guys wearing the other jersey to be stopped from scoring. That doesn't mean I have to openly root for guys like Marbury and Francis to have career years or to succeed individually like I do for AI and Sweetney, it just means I want the team I root for to win.
I can see the validity in your point about being able to relate to the players being extremely important as a fan, but just because you can't relate to the players for a couple of years doesn't give you the right to give up on your team, in my opinion. If that were the case, there would be several franchises in pro sports without any fan bases. By saying you'd rather root for the team which includes a guy or two you can relate to and calling them your new "favorite," you'd be rooting for that said team whenever they play the Knicks. I think that directly goes against what it means to be a fan of a team in the first place. You stick with them through whatever it is they go through. Both the good and the bad (and the really REALLY bad). Dolan and Isiah won't be there forever. Neither will Starbury and Franchise. Sure, it may take more than a few years to get straightened out. But I can't in my right mind turn my back on the one franchise I've rooted passionately for my entire life which has provided me with many of my best memories growing up just because I can't relate to any of the players on the team.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Knicks
Jun 26, 2006 15:39:52 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jun 26, 2006 15:39:52 GMT -5
Keep the Knicks the F*** away from Roy. They already ruined Ewing's shot at an NBA title--they don't deserve a chance to ruin Roy's. How the hell are the Knicks responsible for ruining Ewing's chances to win a title? They surrounded him with a team that should have won at least one title (were it not for "2 for 18" and Ewing's own blown missed finger roll against Indiana) and a coach (Riley) who had proven (including recently) that he had the goods to be a coach who could lead them to a championship. Don't get me wrong, I've been a lifelong Knicks fan and I love Patrick as a player. He did a lot of great things for us and our franchise, but if anything, Patrick cost himself the chance to win an NBA title when he failed to show up in some big games and some clutch situations. I would love to see Roy in a Knicks uniform. And I'm praying that Isiah's newfound coaching duties will at least prevent him from spending too much time to pursue horrendous deals that will set back the Knicks for another few years. I'm prepared to sit through 3-4 years of 25 win seasons as long as we don't add any more bad contracts. I just hope our front office is willing to do the same. The Knicks surrounded Ewing with TRASH/GARBAGE until he was old and on his last legs--as a legit player. I don't want to hear about clowns like Starks and Mason--they were/are CBA level talent and had no business being on the stage they were which was more a result of Riley/Goon Ball with Knicks then anything. Ewing had to carry washed up CRAP and talentless goons against Michael Jordan in his prime with Pippen, Horace Grant, and guys who fit roles and could actually play basketball. When he got to face the Rockets and one of the greatest to ever play in Olajuwon--who also happened to have help with likes of Thorpe, Elie, Smith, Horry, Cassell, which is not to damn bad when you compare what Ewing was playing with--but I digress. The missed layup was a terrible moment for Ewing but then again he was beat up and never mentioned it--unlike today's athletes who have the built in excuse BEFORE the game starts in case they fail. As for the silly guarantees-that was tired/old but then again what are athletes supposed to do--say they'll lose? I'll defend Ewing to the grave because so many Knick fans act as if he'd never stepped up--well the guy was going into shootouts with a plastic knife in terms of supporting cast and when he finally got a group who fit what he needed--he was on his last legs--the achilles and without Ewing that year they never beat Heat and get out of 1st Round--but that is always ignored by Knick fans who think they were "better" without him. Yeah, nothing like Charles Smith missing a friggin layup over and over, or having John Starks decide your fate in Playoffs. Compare that to having kickouts to likes of Horry, Cassell, Elie but then again what have they ever done since that series??
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Knicks
Jun 26, 2006 16:13:34 GMT -5
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jun 26, 2006 16:13:34 GMT -5
That the 1994 Knicks "should have won the title" is absurd.
The 1994 Rockets shouldn't have even won the title and they were way better than the Knicks. Nobody could even touch the incredible choking Sonics that season. They were far and away the best team in the league. I still can't believe they blew three straight.
|
|