T-Mac STILL can't get out of the first round

[MCIGuy]

Come on, man! This time I was actually rooting for you and you let me down.

I know McGrady played better than anyone else in that series and I can't blame him for his team not advancing. But in a game seven in which he is presented with an opportunity to finally get to the second round he came up short. His first quarter was so bad that by the time he got his game on track it was too late. In a perfect world his teammates would have had his back and picked up the slack. Unfortunately for him the only Rocket to have his offense on track in the first quarter was Yao and that wasn't enough.

T-Mac had to come out BLAZING. It didn't matter that the Mavs were on fire, he would have to extinguish those flames by going Jordan like and putting up 15 or more points in the first quarter to put the Rockets ahead or to keep them real close until the Mavs cooled off.

The Rockets lost by 40 points! 40!!! McGrady has been in the league, what, seven or eight years now. He should be hungry enough to make sure his team didn't go out like that. Playing well i the first six games doesn't mean anything if you can't give that same effort in the biggest game of them all, game seven. You think AI wouldn't have exploded in a game seven? He's already won two of them (the only two he has ever played in)including one in which he went for 40 plus over the Bucks to get to the Finals. Now we got McGrady going fishing once more. And Deke's out on the boat with him.

By the way where the hell was Dirk in that series?

[RDF]

For all of the talk of about Western Conference being so great, I think their Playoff Series have been GARBAGE so far. Either complete blowouts or ineptness by teams--Dallas and Houston played crap basketball for most of the Series and McGrady is just not a winner. The series came down to one play in my mind--him allowing Josh Howard to deflect the rebound off a missed FT off McGrady and Rockets never got the opportunity to tie/win the game down 2 with 12 seconds left in Game 4. That was a play a SUPERSTAR never allows to happen. Be strong with the ball.

Dirk was AWOL too and his game isn't one that can take over a game--he needs others to set him up, so I don't view him as a Franchise type--he's a supporting cast star as is McGrady because T-Mac has proven that he can't carry the load as the primary player. Given a 2-0 lead heading HOME to Houston and he can't lead Rockets to a split?

The Playoffs come down to 4 teams in my opinion and that's San Antonio, Phoenix, Miami, and Detroit. This year's not been very interesting simply because the matchups are so predictable and as you mentioned in thread on other board Philly would've taken out every single team minus Detroit and Miami and I think they could've scared Heat a bit more than Pistons. For Shaq's dominance, all you have to do is be in position heading into the 4th and you can use his foul shooting against him. Wade is great and would be why I'd pick them over Philly but Sixers matched up better with them because the amount of guys on Heat with no significant experience in Playoffs of success--Eddie Jones, Damon (Freddie Mitchell of Basketball" Jones, etc....

I love watching Suns play but they are going to get spanked against Spurs and could have some problems with Mavs if they are rusty in one of early games due to layoff.

Heat and Wizards is over--the minute you parade around wearing "Round II" shirts, you're done.

Pistons and Pacers will be it's usual odd/weird swings of back and forth and I like Detroit because Indy always coughs up homecourt==-and often when they have advantages in series.

Spurs will bore their way into Finals and while I love Ginobli, Tim Duncan has become the "Pete Sampras" of Basketball to me--he's great in his comfort zone with Spurs but he was such a DOG on the Olympic team I lost respect for him--Sampras was same way, get him playing for his country and he'd lose to guys who were marginal at best. Duncan was garbage in Olympics and didn't have one good game/showing in my opinion.

[JohnJacquesLayup]

RDF said:

Heat and Wizards is over--the minute you parade around wearing "Round II" shirts, you're done.

Give us a break, how were we supposed to know how to celebrate? The T-shirts were only there because Arenas tosses his jersey to the fans after every game And they did achieve something only a handful of other teams in NBA HISTORY have done, coming back from 0-2 (and in 6 games no less). I'd like to see the Wiz steal one game to prevent the "0 for 2 seasons" against the Heat.

[the_way]

MCIGuy said:

Come on, man! This time I was actually rooting for you and you let me down.

I know McGrady played better than anyone else in that series and I can't blame him for his team not advancing. But in a game seven in which he is presented with an opportunity to finally get to the second round he came up short. His first quarter was so bad that by the time he got his game on track it was too late. In a perfect world his teammates would have had his back and picked up the slack. Unfortunately for him the only Rocket to have his offense on track in the first quarter was Yao and that wasn't enough.

T-Mac had to come out BLAZING. It didn't matter that the Mavs were on fire, he would have to extinguish those flames by going Jordan like and putting up 15 or more points in the first quarter to put the Rockets ahead or to keep them real close until the Mavs cooled off.

The Rockets lost by 40 points! 40!!! McGrady has been in the league, what, seven or eight years now. He should be hungry enough to make sure his team didn't go out like that. Playing well i the first six games doesn't mean anything if you can't give that same effort in the biggest game of them all, game seven. You think AI wouldn't have exploded in a game seven? He's already won two of them (the only two he has ever played in)including one in which he went for 40 plus over the Bucks to get to the Finals. Now we got McGrady going fishing once more. And Deke's out on the boat with him.

By the way where the hell was Dirk in that series?

I think you are being a little too hard on McGrady. This is a team game. Its not tennis. What more could McGrady have done in that series. This year's Houston team which is good, not great, was the best team McGrady has played on his entire career. Look at those Orlando teams he carried to the playoffs 3 years in a row. He was playing with a bunch a stiffs. McGrady's problem is that he did in Orlando what Iverson never did in Philly. McGrady got understandbly fed up with carrying the franchise and the direction the franchise was going, and he just imploded. As a result, he just dogged it on the court his final year in Orlando and it heavily contributed to team mutiny. In the years prior to that he would verbally put down his teammates by saying he was carrying them. Which was true, but as a leader you don't say that. On the other hand, Iverson, which I'm sure he has been fed up with the team's direction and lack of talent surrounding him, never let it affect his play on the court. He did voice his concerns to the GM behind close doors in private, but he never called teammates out in the press and he never dogged on the basketball court in games. His teammates always liked playing with him, and he always had encouraging words for his teammates.

[TBird41]

the_way said:

I think you are being a little too hard on McGrady. This is a team game. Its not tennis. What more could McGrady have done in that series. This year's Houston team which is good, not great, was the best team McGrady has played on his entire career. Look at those Orlando teams he carried to the playoffs 3 years in a row. He was playing with a bunch a stiffs. McGrady's problem is that he did in Orlando what Iverson never did in Philly. McGrady got understandbly fed up with carrying the franchise and the direction the franchise was going, and he just imploded. As a result, he just dogged it on the court his final year in Orlando and it heavily contributed to team mutiny. In the years prior to that he would verbally put down his teammates by saying he was carrying them. Which was true, but as a leader you don't say that. On the other hand, Iverson, which I'm sure he has been fed up with the team's direction and lack of talent surrounding him, never let it affect his play on the court. He did voice his concerns to the GM behind close doors in private, but he never called teammates out in the press and he never dogged on the basketball court in games. His teammates always liked playing with him, and he always had encouraging words for his teammates.

WTF??

How the *^%* can you apologize for McGrady and hate on Garnett so much? I mean, I disagree w/ RDF about KG, but at least RDF's consistent.
Secondly, it's ok to dog it on the court b/c you don't like the way the franchise is going? At least KG gives 100% effort everytime. Whatever you think of his ability to carry a team, you cannot argue that. And yet your apologetic for McGrady but KG is garbage?

[the_way]

TBird41 said:

WTF??

How the *^%* can you apologize for McGrady and hate on Garnett so much? I mean, I disagree w/ RDF about KG, but at least RDF's consistent.
Secondly, it's ok to dog it on the court b/c you don't like the way the franchise is going? At least KG gives 100% effort everytime. Whatever you think of his ability to carry a team, you cannot argue that. And yet your apologetic for McGrady but KG is garbage?

Calm down groupie. Consitency!? I am consistent. There is a big difference between KG and T-Mac. T-Mac has played clutch and came up in big games plenty of times during his career. KG has had great talent around him, way better than the stiffs T-Mac had in Orlando. KG has stepped up once in his entire career. T-Mac is a franchise player. KG is
complimentary player. Outside of Kobe or Iverson, there is no player that has a better all-around game than T-Mac. KG is the best stat-stuffer in the NBA, but when it really matters most, KG doesn't do one thing.

[Cambridge]

TMac is Vince Carter take 2...there's always an "excuse" for why he fails and he'll leave a team if it doesn't win.

Family is family.

[the_way]

CambridgeHoya said:

TMac is Vince Carter take 2...there's always an "excuse" for why he fails and he'll leave a team if it doesn't win.

Family is family.

I disagree with that. McGrady is a better player. Vince has been soft his whole entire career. McGrady is not soft. I think people are juding McGrady by his last season in Orlando where it was a fiasco. McGrady is a bit of a diva,but save for his last season in Orlando, he has been a superstar. Vince is not a superstar and he is a soft competitor.

[Cambridge]

Apples to apples.

Both are incredibly talented. However both are mentally soft. Both are prima donnas who put themselves before team and winning. Both lack the real drive that is required to carry a team.

[the_way]

CambridgeHoya said:

Apples to apples.

Both are incredibly talented. However both are mentally soft. Both are prima donnas who put themselves before team and winning. Both lack the real drive that is required to carry a team.

What did McGrady do his first 3 years in Orlando? Was that not carrying a team. Name the other four starters he played with those years. You can't even do it.

[RDF]

I think McGrady and KG or AI and either guy are combos that could win a championship. I'd love to see AI with KG because he's exactly what Garnett needs/someone who wants the shots that KG doesn't want to take late in a game and yet Garnett would do the little things that AI needs--set screens, finish when getting a wide open dunk and finish ABOVE THE RIM too, and in McGrady's case, he's in need of similar traits, although I think he drops below KG simply because Garnett will play hard--McGrady quitting on Orlando was pathetic and his want to be the "alpha" and leaving Toronto was stupid. He should've just stepped his game up and let his cousin play the "sidekick" role because everyone knows Carter is soft.

I just get ticked because all of the Hoyas I've followed in NBA never get chances to play with top players in their prime--Knicks get Patrick talent when he's injured/older, Zo was stuck with that piece of garbage Tim Hardaway, and crap, and AI the same. Deke had some good players although young, and at least he'd get his team to 2nd Round and when paired with a legit star--AI, he helped team to Finals.

McGrady's an unreal talent, but comes up small at key moments in Playoffs. And remember he signed with Magic thinking they'd have a healthy Grant Hill, so he was going to have a top level All Star NBA Sidekick to play with--then Hill's ankle went to hell.

[Cambridge]

the_way said:

What did McGrady do his first 3 years in Orlando? Was that not carrying a team. Name the other four starters he played with those years. You can't even do it.

I know that you're not disparaging Don Reid and Patrick Ewing who were both on that roster...gasp.

Guards, remove this infidel!

[the_way]

CambridgeHoya said:

I know that you're not disparaging Don Reid and Patrick Ewing who were both on that roster...gasp.

Guards, remove this infidel!

Lets be real. Pat Ewing in Orlando. Please!? Don Reid was a great role player. But lets be real about the amount of talent he had around him Orlando. When a Pat Garrity injury is a huge blow to your team, you are playing with a bunch of stiffs.

[TBird41]

the_way said:

Calm down groupie. Consitency!? I am consistent. There is a big difference between KG and T-Mac. T-Mac has played clutch and came up in big games plenty of times during his career. KG has had great talent around him, way better than the stiffs T-Mac had in Orlando. KG has stepped up once in his entire career. T-Mac is a franchise player. KG is
complimentary player. Outside of Kobe or Iverson, there is no player that has a better all-around game than T-Mac. KG is the best stat-stuffer in the NBA, but when it really matters most, KG doesn't do one thing.

KG has stepped up once, T-Mac has never stepped up, yet T-Mac is the franchise player and KG is the complementary player. All I'm saying is that it's pretty hypocritical for you to rip KG all day long and then turn around and defend T-Mac. If you want to rip both, I'll hear that. If you want to defend both, that's fine. But saying that T-Mac is a franchise player despite never making it out of the first round (blowing a 3-1 lead and a 2-0 lead) and then turning around and ripping Garnett for not stepping it up in the playoffs is crap.

And Franchise players do not, under any circumstances, quit on their team (Something T-Mac has done, but KG has not and will not)


Finally, what's with your need to attack people personally when they disagree with you/call you out? Does defending T-Mac make you a T-Mac groupie? And it's pretty obvious you are a closet Rockets fan, otherwise you wouldn't defend any of their players.

[the_way]

TBird41 said:

KG has stepped up once, T-Mac has never stepped up, yet T-Mac is the franchise player and KG is the complementary player. All I'm saying is that it's pretty hypocritical for you to rip KG all day long and then turn around and defend T-Mac. If you want to rip both, I'll hear that. If you want to defend both, that's fine. But saying that T-Mac is a franchise player despite never making it out of the first round (blowing a 3-1 lead and a 2-0 lead) and then turning around and ripping Garnett for not stepping it up in the playoffs is crap.

And Franchise players do not, under any circumstances, quit on their team (Something T-Mac has done, but KG has not and will not)


Finally, what's with your need to attack people personally when they disagree with you/call you out? Does defending T-Mac make you a T-Mac groupie? And it's pretty obvious you are a closet Rockets fan, otherwise you wouldn't defend any of their players.

Its funny how people feel obliged to tell you about your ownself, when they can't see the forrest from the trees. T-Mac does step up. How many times this year have seen T-Mac hit the last shot of the game. Let me remind you about that Spurs game this year. Anyway, arguing with you about KG and his shortcomings is like arguing with Dick Vitale about Duke. If KG quit on his team, it wouldn't make a difference because they still would exit the first round of the playoffs or not make the playoffs at all. KG quit this year. Lying about how his knee hurts, blah, blah, blah. With his Oscar winning performance in the interview with JT2, crying about how he cares about winning. Yeah right! He quit. You can have KG. I'd take T-Mac over him anyday. Yes T-Mac is a a bit of diva and a complainer, but what great player isn't. But at least he has the nads, to put his team on his back. That is something KG doesn't have. Plus, if you want to look at supporting casts, its not even close when you compare the talent KG had around him vs. T-Mac. T-Mac finally had some talent around him this year. Look at those teams in Orlando.

[Cambridge]

T-Mac only recently realized he had a 7'6" center he could pass the ball to....kudos T-Mac, but he's been there all year.

[the_way]

CambridgeHoya said:

T-Mac only recently realized he had a 7'6" center he could pass the ball to....kudos T-Mac, but he's been there all year.

T-Mac realized he had a 7'6" center who can't catch the ball when a pass is thrown to him. T-Mac is the primary option on this team. Jeff Van Gundy encourages him to take a lot of shots. Yao Ming is an okay player. Not a great player, and probably will never be a great player. More like an upgraded version of Rik Smits. If you watch any of their games, Houston plays better and the offense and defense runs better when Dikembe is on the floor instead of Yao.

[KHoyaNYC]

Didn't Doc Rivers always complain in Orlando that McGrady was prone to dog it from time to time?

[RDF]

Didn't know whether this mention was worth a new thread, but a guy who's quickly gaining some "attention" for coming up very small in Postseason and big games is Jermaine O'Neal of the Pacers. The guy gets a lot of hype and "protection" from the media---"He's hurt" or "He's just off tonight" and yet I watch the guy and can't remember the last time he's made a shot in the Playoffs. He's known for stupid fouls, not coming up with big rebounds, and I think he's someone who gets a lot of smoke blown up his rear for a player that has been less useful than Jeff Foster on his own team.

I've got to see a lot more of him doing something before I put him in the category of "Elite" that he's somehow gained for doing absolutely nothing.

[the_way]

RDF said:

Didn't know whether this mention was worth a new thread, but a guy who's quickly gaining some "attention" for coming up very small in Postseason and big games is Jermaine O'Neal of the Pacers. The guy gets a lot of hype and "protection" from the media---"He's hurt" or "He's just off tonight" and yet I watch the guy and can't remember the last time he's made a shot in the Playoffs. He's known for stupid fouls, not coming up with big rebounds, and I think he's someone who gets a lot of smoke blown up his rear for a player that has been less useful than Jeff Foster on his own team.

I've got to see a lot more of him doing something before I put him in the category of "Elite" that he's somehow gained for doing absolutely nothing.

Jermaine O'Neal is in that same category. Although he is paid like a Franchise player, he does come up small in big games. He lacks toughness. Not only Jeff Foster, but Austin Croshere is tougher than Jermaine O'Neal. Unless you are a pudgy hispanic guy sliding feet first in street clothes, you are not going to be physically dominated by Jermaine O'Neal. Yet, rarely this is ever mentioned. Yes, he is protected. Over the past couple of years, O'Neal has played in the East, where power-forwards are scarce, let alone centers. But when he is faced with competition of worthy caliber, like Rasheed Wallace, he struggles mightily. IF he had played out west where power-forwards are at a premium these past several years, he would be just a good power-forward at best, not a so-called "elite" one. Jermaine O'Neal is a power-forward who likes to play physically like a small-forward. As soon as you play him tough and physical,get him out of his comfort zone, he has a hard time making shots.

If the Pacers had Ron Artest, they would win the NBA title, or at least make it to the NBA finals. They have the depth, talent, coaching, and they would have had Ron Artest's toughness to take it that far. He is their franchise player. What Ron Artest provides for that ball club, puts him as one of the top players in the league. Ron's problem is mental farts. He always play great championship-type level basketball, and then, at times, he just mentally lapses and all hell breaks loose. And then it doesn't help when you have a great player and loose cannon in Stephen "We ride together!" Jackson reinforcing those type of "extracurricular" activities.