Baseball: North vs. South

[TigerHoya]

Just wanted to see if the people on this board, who I'd guess are primarily in the mid-Atlantic and Northeast would tend to agree with what seems to be the case for me down here now.

I'm referring to college baseball only, not MLB or minor league or any other level.

It just seems to be that in the east (California, Arizona and Texas are probably the strongest areas in the west), nobody much (with exceptions) seems to care anything about college baseball much past the Carolinas and maybe VA. I would've left it at most of the interest being in the SEC and ACC but Virginia considered dropping their program a few years ago and I've yet to find anyone in MD on my trips there that knows anything about college baseball at all or follows it on a semi-regular basis. Then you have schools like GU that pave over an on-campus field for parking.

What brought this discussion on was the paid attendance for last night's Clemson-BC game in Chestnut Hill: 340 people. Their stadium looks smaller than most high school stadiums around here and doesn't even have seats on the right-field line to speak of - just a ramp or walkway to a parking garage.

Some might say that Boston is a pro sports town and MD is probably a lacrosse-crazy state in the spring but you'd think there'd be a little bit more interest than there is. Admittedly I might be missing some of it. Highlights of in-state schools (and not just the top two - Clemson and SC) regularly make the nightly newscasts here. Schools like Coastal and Winthrop and the Citadel/CofC to a lesser extent regularly make the NCAAs and have a lot of fan interest and nice facilities.

How much of this is solely weather-related for practice prior to the season and for starting the season at home early on in nicer weather? (As opposed to many teams from the Northeast doing long tours in the south or west early in the season.) If it is mainly the weather thing early in the season, how much of this will be alleviated by the new uniform start date rules?

Anybody else have any thoughts on the reasons for this seeming disparity in interest in college baseball regionally?

[SFHoya99]

I think it's almost entirely weather related. Southern and western schools get such a ridiculous head start every single year that the NE and north cannot keep up. The kids themselves probably don't even realize it until they get to college -- and baseball requires so much skill.

I moved to Socal from Pennsylvania when I was 11. The difference in baseball was a culture shock. I went from neighborhood teams to a little league draft. People who played at local high schools went on to be first round picks or MLB All Stars. (The Erics -- Chavez and Munson, were a year behind me at a rival school. Other pros from my three school school district -- Eric Anthony, Phil Plantier, Dave Brown, Cole Hamels, Billy Beane (A's GM) plus a slew of draft picks that haven't made it).

They play year round. They go to the cage daily. A friend of mine who was as good as Eric at age 12 had a batting cage at his house. They play Summer, Fall, Winter and Spring ball. There's simply no way a similarly talented New Englander could ever keep up in the past.

As a result, I think they simply don't take sports and in particular, baseball, as seriously. But it is all sports as well in New England, and only Football, which you really can't play year round because of the abuse, in other northern states.

[TBird41]

Isn't Notre Dame the Northernmost school to make the College World Series since 1960? I know that no team from the Big Ten has made it since then.

[TigerHoya]

Southern Illinois finished 2nd in the CWS in 1968 and 1971 (lost to Rod Dedeaux coached USC both times.) Ohio State lost to Arizona State in the 1965 finals. Minnesota won over Missouri in the finals in 1964. Michigan won it all in 1962. Minnesota won the CWS in 1960. Penn State lost in the finals in 1957. Holy Cross won it all in 1952. Yale finished 2nd in 1947 and 1948.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_World_Series

[TigerHoya]

As strong as the ACC has been in the past 2 decades, Wake in 1955 was the only ACC team to win the CWS.

[sleepyjackson21]

Seton Hall used to be a power in baseball. They have at least 10 NCAA tournament apperances and 3 college world series appearances (in the 70's). Their best team was probably the 1987 team which fell short of the CWS which featured Craig Biggio, Mo Vaughn and Jon Valentin.

[TigerHoya]

Maine has traditionally been a good program too. Clemson's coach Jack Leggett played there. Their closer transferred to Clemson prior to this season. Alot of transfers from the northeast and northwest to programs in the S/SW/W seem to happen as well.

Another notable exception I missed was the Cape Cod League, which is generally where the best college players go for summer league. It has even spawned a copy of it called the Coastal Plain League in the SE.

Another example I can think of is a friend of mine at GU who was originally from the Boston area. One of his friends from HS was playing baseball at Presbyterian, which is 10 miles from my hometown and where I took some classes after I left GU.

I'm thinking the weather factor is a major reason for the difference in interest and I've known people with their own batting cages as well - most areas in SC have at least one or two schools/academies taught by former college/MLB players and there's even one in my small hometown.

However, I think the weather factor may just be a smaller part of a larger trend in population shift to the west and the south in the past 2-3 decades.

[TigerHoya]

One other thing...

The uniform start date of Feb. 22 takes effect in 2008.

[TigerHoya]

Just bringing this to the top for anybody that might have missed it over the weekend...

[AustinHoya03]

One problem is that the tournament committee is aware the balance of power is in the South and on the West Coast, and is not afraid to skew the brackets to reflect this. The unwritten rule used to be that if a team finished above .500 in the Pac-10, that team got into the postseason. Cal finished 13-11 in the conference last year and made a stink when it wasn't invited to a regional. Five of twelve teams from the Big XII made the postseason in 2005. The #2 team in the Big East, BC, was not invited, despite finishing 37-20 overall and 17-8 in the conference. This, along with the weather, doesn't do anything to help the old recruiting pitch.

Another thing that hurts the Northeast is that the Big East is the only major baseball conference. The South and the West have the BCS conferences, plus other good baseball leagues. The Big West is one of the better baseball conferences. Tiger, down in your neck of the woods there are some good smaller baseball conferences. CUSA isn't a bad baseball conference, either, nor is the Mountain West. Big East teams have to choose between extensive travel or beating up on America East and A-10 patsies. (GU has traveled to San Francisco, St. Mary's, and San Jose State this year.)

Also, every major program in the state of Texas has new or renovated facilities (or plans to renovate). I don't know how dedicated schools in the Northeast are to keeping up. Obviously GU is not.

Another thing that is different. as you point out, is crowd/fan support. Texas, TCU, Rice, and Texas Tech all play each other in Minute Maid Park at the beginning of each baseball season. I went down for the UT-Rice game this year and the lower bowl was full, along with a good chunk of the club level. If Maine and St. John's played each other in Fenway in March, would anyone go? I think any serious athlete with the opportunity to play for larger crowds in nicer settings is not going to mind traveling a couple extra hundred miles for school.

[JimmyHoya]

The NE traditionally plays lacrosse and while that used to be a smaller, albeit still significant number, now all young people are playing the game.

If you think the disparity is bad now, give it 10 years. It's not just Long Island anymore, it's Baltimore, NoVA, Pennsylvania,. Connecticut etc. where your little league organizations are quickly falling apart.

[TigerHoya]

What kind of crowds do the Boston schools get in Fenway for the Beanpot (the finals this year are tonight - BC and Harvard)?

The facilities thing is picking up really big in lots of places besides Texas.

Regional and super-regional assignments come into play as well with the committee and that's based on traditional strengths and attendance draw as well. For example, Winthrop was a #1 seed last year but they went to Tempe with ASU as the host. Granted, Winthrop doesn't have a stadium on campus that could support a regional, but if they would be more lenient with off-campus facilities (ECU and maybe NC State have both hosted off-campus at Kinston before) then Winthrop could host at the Charlotte Knights' stadium for instance and if Charleston got a #1 they could host at the Charleston Riverdogs' stadium (which is also the Citadel's home field.

Speaking of facilities, I didn't realize John Schuerholz was from the Baltimore area until I went through Towson's campus last spring and saw the stadium there was named for him. Found out some of his distant relatives lived near my fiancee's family a while back.

[TigerHoya]

Winthrop actually made an unsuccessful bid at hosting this year with their new on-campus stadium and the addition of 1,000 temporary bleachers.