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Post by HoyaLawya on Apr 11, 2006 9:49:28 GMT -5
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Saxa71
Century (over 100 posts)
"Hope I die before I get old"
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Post by Saxa71 on Apr 11, 2006 21:17:23 GMT -5
Stupid - Hate crimes although heinous can be only committed against "oppressed" minorities
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Post by HoyaLawya on Apr 12, 2006 12:57:55 GMT -5
From the article linked above:
Police investigated the incident as a hate crime after a witness heard a teen shout, "Get the white boy!" But they later determined robbery, not racial bias, was the motive.
"The murder of the young man in Harlem was wrong, reprehensible and must be deplored by all," the Rev. Al Sharpton said yesterday. "If in fact racial language was used, this also must be denounced by the entire civil rights community."
Motive is key. Membership in a race or an ethnic group not commonly believed to be oppressed is not a requirement for the victim. (Obviously, because then that would run afoul of Equal Protection considerations under the Constitution.)
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 12, 2006 16:06:31 GMT -5
you don't need to go to Grambling... NCCU is an HBCU also... I guarantee you that those boys wouldn't be hiding behind lawyers...they'd already be in jail if they were Black... I just picked Grambling 'cause I thought I remembered them having a white QB recently. However, if this was NCCU, I don't think that 46 of them would in jail. And that's my point - why is ok to round up 98% of the team and make them submit DNA samples and, in effect, make them rat each other out. That's ok in the civil context when you don't know who's liable, but in the criminal context I think you need a little more to go on then "white Duke lacrosse players" to bring in that many people. Hasn't the Supreme Court already decided this one. Lumping DNA swabs and urine samples in with fingerprinting, police lineups and voice samples. That is, as long as the collection is reasonably limited to the team (as there is reasonable suspicion due to witness accounts)
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 13, 2006 10:11:04 GMT -5
But my point is that it's not reasonably limited to say "white lacrosse players." Did they have facial hair? Where they tall or short? What color was their hair? The sweep seems overbroad to me.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Apr 13, 2006 12:28:11 GMT -5
But my point is that it's not reasonably limited to say "white lacrosse players." Did they have facial hair? Where they tall or short? What color was their hair? The sweep seems overbroad to me. Wouldn't counsel have the opportunity to challenge the admission of this evidence if it was an overly broad search? My guess is that the tactic hurts the prosecution - not to mention the negative results.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 13, 2006 12:34:01 GMT -5
But my point is that it's not reasonably limited to say "white lacrosse players." Did they have facial hair? Where they tall or short? What color was their hair? The sweep seems overbroad to me. Wouldn't counsel have the opportunity to challenge the admission of this evidence if it was an overly broad search? My guess is that the tactic hurts the prosecution - not to mention the negative results. I think they could have challenged the order, but I don't know what type of representation they had at the time. Also, if a sexual assault did not occur, then they may have felt they had no reason not to submit DNA samples.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Apr 13, 2006 15:19:05 GMT -5
Heard on sports talk radio in Tulsa - Duke Lax apparel is selling at 5 times its normal rate according to the Duke University bookstore. Discuss.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 13, 2006 18:26:19 GMT -5
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Apr 14, 2006 8:21:39 GMT -5
I was a victim of many similar hate crimes committed by those rednecks Jack Daniels and Jim Beam during my 4 years on the hilltop.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 14, 2006 9:58:01 GMT -5
I was a victim of many similar hate crimes committed by those rednecks Jack Daniels and Jim Beam during my 4 years on the hilltop. You know, those guys are very tricky. Jack will be your best friend all evening, but the next morning he'll just hammer you for no reason at all. Then, the next time you run into him, he's your best friend again. You just can't trust those southerners! I should add, however, that I also have a very good Scottish friend -- name of Johnnie Walker -- who does exactly the same thing. And an Irish dude name of Jameson.
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miamihoya
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Post by miamihoya on Apr 17, 2006 17:31:13 GMT -5
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Apr 18, 2006 9:57:54 GMT -5
GU Lax representin'!!!! It's nice to know that there is a member of the team who has engaged in gay bashing. Can somebody please explain to me why behavior like this does not result in expulsion. Why does the University tolerate violent criminal conduct? This has been a long-standing complaint of mine. I remember when I was an undergrad a football player nearly killed another student -- beat him severely -- and was not expelled. I just don't get it. This isn't UConn. We should be ashamed. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/18/AR2006041800311.html
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 18, 2006 10:39:32 GMT -5
GU Lax representin'!!!! It's nice to know that there is a member of the team who has engaged in gay bashing. Can somebody please explain to me why behavior like this does not result in expulsion. Why does the University tolerate violent criminal conduct? This has been a long-standing complaint of mine. I remember when I was an undergrad a football player nearly killed another student -- beat him severely -- and was not expelled. I just don't get it. This isn't UConn. We should be ashamed. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/18/AR2006041800311.htmlWow. Let's do the same rush to judgment that took place in Durham. Do you know who this anonymous GU player is? Do you know that no action was taken against him? Do you know that he (or she) is still a student at Georgetown? And do you know that the "alleged gay bashing" even occurred? Could it be that the "victim" made part of his story up? The point is that you probably don't know 1/4 of the facts and for you to come out with guns blazing based on a sentence 2/3 of the way through a newspaper story is a bit premature. Are you saying that anyone who pleads to, or is found guilty of, a crime should not be allowed at GU? Added Also, it doesn't look like you have anything against the athletes at Georgetown. "GU Lax representin'!!!" and the football player story. Geez. Some jock give you a wedgie in middle school?
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Apr 18, 2006 10:48:23 GMT -5
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JimmyHoya
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Post by JimmyHoya on Apr 18, 2006 11:00:51 GMT -5
Wow, so it was 2-3 crackpots who were insignificant to the team as a whole. God I'd hate to be Zash, Danowski, etc. and all the other Duke AA's whose future lacrosse endeavors have been royally screwed up because of these guys. Hopefully they can get a shot elsewhere.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 18, 2006 11:02:51 GMT -5
Again, are you saying that anyone who pleads to, or is found guilty of, a crime should not be allowed at GU?
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JimmyHoya
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Post by JimmyHoya on Apr 18, 2006 11:16:57 GMT -5
www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32696^Interesting piece by a former lacrosse player on the culture of lacrosse players. I agree with him to a degree. Not all folks are as ridiculous as he might indicate, but there are certainly a lot of people to uphold the stereotype of lax meatheads who'll do whatever they want. Growing up around here and seeing lacrosse players from G'town Prep, Landon, St. Alban's, Dematha, etc. you do see some absurd things. I've heard the words "are you serious, brother!? I play Editedin' lax!!" more than a few times.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Apr 18, 2006 11:21:37 GMT -5
Uh, oh, my homie from Manhasset.
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Apr 18, 2006 11:30:06 GMT -5
kc -- No. I think that anyone convicted of a crime of violence (e.g., rape, battery, etc.) should be subject to expulsion. That is, based on the circumstances, expulsion should be seriously considered. For an unprovoked act of gay bashing, yes, I think expulsion is exactly the appropriate remedy. I viewed attending GU as a privilege. Students who endanger the well-being of fellow students and community members should not be permitted to attend. This does not strike me as an outrageous or overly strict standard -- especially since I'm only applying it to those CONVICTED of a crime, not merely arrested. I was embarassed when I read this story in the Post this morning. The University cannot control its students 24/7, but it can properly discipline those whose behavior reflects poorly on the school. Acts of criminal violence are beyond the pale.
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