Amazing post article regarding college admissions

[HoyaOnBothSides]

and in particular, the whole harvard plagiarism scandal.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/01/AR2006050101272.html

making particular reference to this company:

www.ivywise.com

It makes me sick that parents who can afford to pay $30k to get their little brat an admissions consultant are being accepted into Georgetown (and they are .. check out parent testimonial #1).

If you're smart enough to be accepted into a top school, you should never have to use something like this. Admissions officers who strongly suspect applicants of using this service should throw away the application in question immediately.

Terrible. Just terrible.

[Jack]

Katherine Cohen is an absolute thief and no amount of money paid to her can help a kid get into Georgetown who does not already have outstanding accomplishments. The whole private counseling thing is abhorrent, as it almost always goes to kids who need the least help while students at large public schools fight for attention from their overburdened counselor. As a matter of policy, Georgetown does not talk to any private counselors.

[hoyatables]

jack said:

Katherine Cohen is an absolute thief and no amount of money paid to her can help a kid get into Georgetown who does not already have outstanding accomplishments. The whole private counseling thing is abhorrent, as it almost always goes to kids who need the least help while students at large public schools fight for attention from their overburdened counselor. As a matter of policy, Georgetown does not talk to any private counselors.

HEY!

That's an awfully broad generalization, and an unfair one at that. Many private college counselors -- my father included -- offer advice to students from those public schools who can't get the specific advice they need from their high school. Many are also particularly helpful to students who may not be aspiring to get into the top colleges, but rather just find the right kind of college for them, particularly in light of learning disabilities or other academic difficulties. Finally, they often help to counsel the parents as much as the students, who are confused and unsure how to help their children.

And for the record, I used one, and found her immeasurably helpful, since my public high school didn't really help. She didn't pull any strings for me, but she did listen to my interests and draw up a list. You know what school was at the top? Georgetown. She left the getting in part up to me.

[HoyaOnBothSides]

I'll give you the points about learning disabilities etc, but that is not what that article was about, and companies like IvyWise couldn't care less about kids like that.

Not to get personal here, but may I ask exactly a college counselor could point out to you that is worth the MINIMUM $10k the IvyWise group is charging?

I'm sorry..but what does draw up a list mean? What happened to going to Barnes and Noble or a library and reading? What happened to visiting the schools? If you can afford a fancy counselor, certainly you can afford to do these things. Not to mention that now kids have the internet with message boards (etc) that one can gain insight about schools from that I'm sure 99% of these college counselors would have no clue about.

And please..YOUR conselor MAY have left the getting in part to you, but that is NOT what IvyWise et al market themselves as doing. These BS companies market you, spin you, tell you what to clubs and organizations to sign up for. These are decisions that a high school student who has top-school aspirations should CLEARLY be making for themselves.

I can't even write about this it makes me feel so sick.

[hoyatables]

hoyaonbothsides said:

I'll give you the points about learning disabilities etc, but that is not what that article was about, and companies like IvyWise couldn't care less about kids like that.

Not to get personal here, but may I ask exactly a college counselor could point out to you that is worth the MINIMUM $10k the IvyWise group is charging?

I'm sorry..but what does draw up a list mean? What happened to going to Barnes and Noble or a library and reading? What happened to visiting the schools? If you can afford a fancy counselor, certainly you can afford to do these things. Not to mention that now kids have the internet with message boards (etc) that one can gain insight about schools from that I'm sure 99% of these college counselors would have no clue about.

And please..YOUR conselor MAY have left the getting in part to you, but that is NOT what IvyWise et al market themselves as doing. These BS companies market you, spin you, tell you what to clubs and organizations to sign up for. These are decisions that a high school student who has top-school aspirations should CLEARLY be making for themselves.

I can't even write about this it makes me feel so sick.

I'm not justifying IvyWise. In my mind, however, they are part and parcel of a larger education system that gives people with money a big advantage. The same parents that pay for Ivy Wise are likely also paying big bucks for private school education--often a LOT more than $10k or even $30k. So IvyWise is tapping into that market.

And not every college counselor charges that much money. Clearly counselors that help families with children in public school systems, for example, will have a lower price point. IvyWise clearly takes advantage of those that are willing to pay an outrageous amount--like those people who will pay $100 for a bottle of wine at a fancy restaurant when you could get the same thing for half that at a normal restaurant and $25 or less if you bought it yourself and cooked at home.

And as for the list-making--yes, one can do a lot of research on your own. But some people really just aren't aware of the many good schools out there, particularly outside one's own region. Heck, half the people I went to high school with didn't know Georgetown was a good school.

And moreover, USNR lists only tell you so much, and don't always tell you about smaller schools that might be ideal, or schools that you heard one thing about but never heard the rest of the story. Again, how many people out there know Georgetown is a basketball school but don't know how academically elite it is? It's more than you think. But more to the point, for those people that are just looking at their local schools because they don't really know what else is out there and they can't get into the big names, a college counselor can suggest a couple of places that they may not have heard of that fit their profile and personality.

And finally, don't forget how absolutely intimidating the college application process was. It's often very difficult for young men and women--and their parents--to grapple with such a big and expensive decision. Given the $200k investment in the long run, many people think that a couple of hundred bucks in the short term from an educated professional is not a bad way to start.

And that's the way you look at the normal college counselor. He's like an estate planning attorney or accountant or investment advisor--someone you hire at the outset of a major investment that you expect to pay great dividends in the long run. And of course, like the other professional categories mentioned above, there are a few out there that will take advantage of the situation.

I'm very sorry to hear that you are made sick by this, though I do understand how the bad examples do that. Believe it or not, there are counselors out there even for GRADE schools! I would be happy to chat with you off board by email or otherwise to at least explain what the good folks (like my dad!) do.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

[rant]

The whole education system is messed up -- top to bottom, side to side, back to front -- from the way subjects (and what subjects) are taught, to the value of money (way disproportionate to the value of a capable mind), to the national tragedy that is teacher salaries, to the way college and post-grad men and women are being absolutely screwed by the student loan system.

[/rant]

[hoyatables]

another great topic of discussion for this weekend :-P

[Coast2CoastHoya]

very true! especially with our friends in Burleith thinking of going to a private law school!