kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 2, 2005 18:18:57 GMT -5
Anyone else bothered by this (especially the Michael Steele story)? 'Party trumps race' for Steele foesBlack Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican. Such attacks against the first black man to win a statewide election in Maryland include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an "Uncle Tom" and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log. A nomination that will divideThe daily's editorial board, lamenting the choice of a man to replace Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, opined today: "In losing a woman, the court with Alito would feature seven white men, one white woman and a black man, who deserves an asterisk because he arguably does not represent the views of mainstream black America."
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Nov 2, 2005 19:00:01 GMT -5
this is very troubling but not surprising. The democratic party is the party of racism. Not all democrats are racist but much of their platform and core policies are.
reminds me of the saying i hear a lot ... "i am allowed to make racist jokes, i am a liberal"
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Post by fsohoya on Nov 2, 2005 19:14:52 GMT -5
Actually, I find it disgusting...and all too predictable. For too many people, to be properly black means to toe a very strict racial thought line. Cross it, and you are villified. What especially infuriates me is the treatment Clarence Thomas gets from so many "open-minded" liberals. Because he strictly interprets the Constitution and doesn't play all the idiotic questioning games that go on in Supreme Court arguments, he is derided as being underqualified and lazy by the racebaiters who would immediately scream "racism" were the same thing said about a black jurist who spewed proper liberal platitudes.
I usually try to avoid the Blue and Gray Board because I find so much of what is written here aggravating, but I couldn't resist venting my spleen on this one.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Nov 2, 2005 19:34:38 GMT -5
TGO - could you please provide me with examples of how the Democratic party's platform is racist? That's a pretty absurd claim to make without any backing.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 2, 2005 19:46:27 GMT -5
Anyone else bothered by this (especially the Michael Steele story)? 'Party trumps race' for Steele foesBlack Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican. Such attacks against the first black man to win a statewide election in Maryland include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an "Uncle Tom" and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log. A nomination that will divideThe daily's editorial board, lamenting the choice of a man to replace Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, opined today: "In losing a woman, the court with Alito would feature seven white men, one white woman and a black man, who deserves an asterisk because he arguably does not represent the views of mainstream black America." This stuff is bothersome, as reported. This is the kind of thing that earns State legislators a bad name. I think African-American Republicans are important to our democracy and can add a lot to the discussion. I thought Alan Keyes was one of the more compelling and interesting candidates in the entire 2000 race. That said, there is an undertone to this thread, which suggests the ideological right are paragons of virtue in these regards. I recall a rather objectionable whisper campaign about John McCain as an example. I'm not sure how this thread adds any additional understanding. Racism is bad in any form, and it exists on both sides of the spectrum.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 2, 2005 20:56:48 GMT -5
Actually, I find it disgusting...and all too predictable. For too many people, to be properly black means to toe a very strict racial thought line. Cross it, and you are villified. What especially infuriates me is the treatment Clarence Thomas gets from so many "open-minded" liberals. Because he strictly interprets the Constitution and doesn't play all the idiotic questioning games that go on in Supreme Court arguments, he is derided as being underqualified and lazy by the racebaiters who would immediately scream "racism" were the same thing said about a black jurist who spewed proper liberal platitudes. I usually try to avoid the Blue and Gray Board because I find so much of what is written here aggravating, but I couldn't resist venting my spleen on this one. I believed that Clarence Thomas was underqualified when he was appointed, and nothing has happened during his time on the court to change my mind. Nevertheless, I have to agree with fso that if the shoe were on the other foot, many of those who have been critical of Thomas would be screaming racism. And I also agree that what appears to be going on in Maryland now is disgusting.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 2, 2005 22:35:25 GMT -5
Wow, tgo, thanks! I enjoy being called a racist, no matter the weak little out you gave yourself. You've certainly shown you have no qualms judging people on labels!
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 3, 2005 1:33:22 GMT -5
Good thing I looked at this thread - I am apparently a racist. Well its good that I got that off my chest. Thanks TGO you and the Republicans have shown me the light through your brave and bold decision to nominate a white male whose education includes Princeton and Yale - you are trule the party of Lincoln and I thank you for it. I only wish that the Democratic Party had as big of a tent as the GOP.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 3, 2005 2:27:32 GMT -5
I only wish that the Democratic Party had as big of a tent as the GOP. It's more of a pool house...think Ryan's digs in the OC and I'm pretty sure it's made of glass.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 4, 2005 3:27:57 GMT -5
reminds me of the saying i hear a lot ... "i am allowed to make racist jokes, i am a liberal" I am willing to bet that you don't hear that "a lot." I've never heard anyone say that, although I'm not opposed to racial humor (if we can't joke, what can we do?)
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Nov 8, 2005 6:36:12 GMT -5
Clarence Thomas and Michael Steele are CLOWNS!!! You can definitely throw Condi Rice and Armstrong Williams in that category too.
They are nothing more than [Edited] who thirst so badly for attention, that they'll betray the interests of most Black people to be seen smiling and grinning on TV with the President. If they were Democrats, they know that they'd just blend in. But they run to the party that time and time again has proven that they have no interest in what affects Black and poor people. (See Trent Lott, Strom Thurmon(sp), Jesse Helms and Ronald Reagan)
Clarence Thomas sexually harassed Anita Hill. He placed a pubic hair on her soft-drink. He has not had a singular thought since he's been on the bench. He's too busy with his nose in Scalia's ass.
Condoleeza Rice states that the Civil Rights movement didn't affect her, and that her father was NOT a supporter of Martin Luther King Jr.
Michael Steele says that his mother raised him and his siblings by herself and didn't take any public assistance. Join the club, Mr. Steele. There are millions of Black Americans that can say the same thing, including my grandmother...But if she did take public assistance, would that make her a bad person? That's what it's there for...to help those who need it...
Armstrong Williams...finally realized that he was Black when Bush and his crew left him out to dry after it was shown that he took money to endorse "No Child Left Behind"
Unfortunately, we still have a lot of Black people who believe that anything from the "Master's" table is to be treated like pure gold...
But one thing about the Republican Party, they have a way of letting Black people know just how much of a [Edited] they really are...just takes some a little longer than others...New Orleans got their memo back in August...There are bound to be a few more memos sent out before G-Dub leaves office...
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Post by fsohoya on Nov 8, 2005 7:27:43 GMT -5
Wow Aggy. That must be the dumbest collection of accusations and attacks ever posted on this board, and that includes all the joke threads about Esherick. Fortunately, none of the people you insanely smeared need your approval. They have already proven that they are capable of independent thought regardless of what the liberal status quo, which can't stomach black people who think for themselves, has to say about them.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 8, 2005 8:55:29 GMT -5
Why don't you let your true feeling show through aggy? So I guess you're saying that no intelligent, rational black person would ever be a part of the Republican Party?
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Nov 8, 2005 9:37:24 GMT -5
Why don't you let your true feeling show through aggy? So I guess you're saying that no intelligent, rational black person would ever be a part of the Republican Party? The Republican Party has proven over and over again that they do not have the interests of Black and poor people on their minds. I think it's absolute selfishness for a Black person to vote Republican just because they might get a few tax breaks....Especially when they want to cut things like public assistance, which a lot of Black people still need...(although most people on welfare are white and female) Ronald Reagan cut a government program in the 80's that was helping Black people get off welfare...here's the kicker...for every dollar that the govt. spent on this program, they made back FOUR dollars!!! Why would you get rid of a program that was MAKING the govt. money? Don't forget where Ronald Reagan started his campaign to rally his base...that's right...the same place where 4 Civil Rights workers were killed by the Klan...(Symbolic Racism)...there was an article in the post about it this year...guess you missed it... Michael Steele allowed the Republican party to 'Pimp' him in the Maryland election and at their national convention. Those of us that were in Southern Maryland never knew that Steele was Black...but the Republicans made sure that everyone in PG County knew...he is a Coon to the tenth power... One thing I do know is my people...and the Black Republicans that are paraded back and forth on TV in order to prove how diverse the party is, are being used...and they're either too stupid to know, or too selfish to care... Go back and read the things that Condoleeza Rice has said about her father's stance during the Civil Rights Movement...Go back and do some research on Ronald Reagan during his tenure as Governor of California and his presidency(sp)... You may sense anger in my posts, but it will never be because I'm ignorant...gotta research your enemies...
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 8, 2005 9:51:43 GMT -5
Why don't you let your true feeling show through aggy? So I guess you're saying that no intelligent, rational black person would ever be a part of the Republican Party? The Republican Party has proven over and over again that they do not have the interests of Black and poor people on their minds. I think it's absolute selfishness for a Black person to vote Republican just because they might get a few tax breaks....Especially when they want to cut things like public assistance, which a lot of Black people still need...(although most people on welfare are white and female) Ronald Reagan cut a government program in the 80's that was helping Black people get off welfare...here's the kicker...for every dollar that the govt. spent on this program, they made back FOUR dollars!!! Why would you get rid of a program that was MAKING the govt. money? Don't forget where Ronald Reagan started his campaign to rally his base...that's right...the same place where 4 Civil Rights workers were killed by the Klan...(Symbolic Racism)...there was an article in the post about it this year...guess you missed it... Michael Steele allowed the Republican party to 'Pimp' him in the Maryland election and at their national convention. Those of us that were in Southern Maryland never knew that Steele was Black...but the Republicans made sure that everyone in PG County knew...he is a Coon to the tenth power... One thing I do know is my people...and the Black Republicans that are paraded back and forth on TV in order to prove how diverse the party is, are being used...and they're either too stupid to know, or too selfish to care... Go back and read the things that Condoleeza Rice has said about her father's stance during the Civil Rights Movement...Go back and do some research on Ronald Reagan during his tenure as Governor of California and his presidency(sp)... You may sense anger in my posts, but it will never be because I'm ignorant...gotta research your enemies... enemies? "coon to the tenth power?" wow!
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Post by fsohoya on Nov 8, 2005 9:53:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry Aggy, but until you provide some proof that individuals like Steele and Clarence Thomas have compromised their principles in order to kow-tow to their "masters," you would be wise not to spew your venom about them. Unfortunately, like so many other racebaiters, you automatically accuse blacks who don't toe your political line of having sold out rather than being capable of having their own convictions. Why? Because their convictions aren't your convictions, and because you and others like you are scared silly that the political power that comes from constantly crying "racism" will die when more and more black people stop being "black" and start being "people."
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 8, 2005 13:10:07 GMT -5
Wow, this is getting interesting. And then there's this: "[Clarence Thomas] has not had a singular thought since he's been on the bench. He's too busy with his nose in Scalia's ass." This comment is spot on. I wondered why Thomas' chair was always empty!
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Post by fsohoya on Nov 8, 2005 13:50:03 GMT -5
The comments about Thomas by Aggy and others are by far the most infuriating. For one thing, check a few cases and you can easily find where Thomas has not agreed with Scalia (last term's Raich decision comes to mind). More importantly, though, read a few decisions and dissents by Thomas and you can tell that he is by far the most consistent supporter of true strict construction. Of course, most of his attackers know that -- it's exactly why their hate for him burns so hot. He dares to read the Constitution as it was written AND he thumbs his nose at all the liberals and professional racebaiters who will not tolerate a black man who does not think and act the way they tell him to.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Nov 8, 2005 14:58:53 GMT -5
sorry i didnt respond sooner, sometimes i forget which posts i have replied to that i might want to check back on. but then again, i am glad that aggy showed the point i was trying to make better than i ever could. The concept that since aggy and al sharpton have determined what is best for black people and therefore there is no more discussion to be had is beyond ludicrous, and is actually insultingly paternalistic. I love how the idea that middle & upper class black Americans’ self interest is selfish but the self interest of those who make a living off of the status quo like Jesse Jackson are not. If black man #1 is wealthy and views certain policies or politicians as more likely to improve his lot in life and black man #2 is poor and has a different view of things is there any chance that their difference in the way they see the world is part of why they find themselves on different sides of the tracks? Why would we automatically assume the one who is successful is wrong, doesn’t seem to be much logic behind that debate but that is the point I got from aggy. Another debate for another time perhaps but at least something to consider before discarding an entire philosophy of governance as being "selfish." Maybe if the lower portion (economically speaking) of the black community spent more time emulating and listening to people like Bill Cosby (allegations of his personal problems -which I confess I know nothing about- aside) and less time subscribing to the type of group think aggy suggests then they would be better off. Why are successful people so vilified for wanting and pursuing success? Could they possibly have figured some things out that others aren’t seeing? Maybe if the votes of black America were in play, the democrats in power would have to address the issues that are affecting predominantly black communities beyond lip-service at campaign time. I think it is against the interests of black America to vote as a block and thereby allowing both parties to write off issues in the inner city and other places since spending your time and political capital on them will make no difference in your re-election prospects. Lets look at school choice or vouchers, which could start a whole new debate but at the very least opponents must admit that the prospects of vouchers could overwhelming help the lower classes in the inner city which are predominantly black. This is an issue that goes to the core of conservative philosophy and polls very well among republicans yet they don’t pursue it with guns blazing since they have limited time and there are other issues that they think will ahelp the world and help get them re-elected while more targeted things that affect the black community disproportionately wont. on the flip side most democrats depend on labor unions to raise money & get out the vote to be re-elected so they are not going to anger them when they already have the black vote in their column. Personally, I believe in a libertarian/conservative style of governance because I think that is what is best not just for me but for everyone. I want everyone who is willing to try and to work, to get what they want. The better off the lower classes are, the less my tax dollars go to police and welfare and the more of it stays in my pocket to spend on my family and those I care about. If you think that the right side of the political spectrum doesn’t care about the poor then you have no intellectual standing in any debate on public policy since you have already written off more than half of the population as being basically evil in wanting other people to fail in order to step on their backs. Everyone wants the same thing in the end- equality of opportunities leading to prosperity for those who are willing to work to earn it. The left & right have different opinions on how to get there, what some of the stumbling blocks along the way are and will be, and how best to react to them. An aside-whatever you think of Clarence Thomas as a justice, it should have nothing to do with his skin color, debate the merits of his opinions or work ethic or whatever and I would enjoy reading a back and forth with you and fsohoya on the issue, why does it matter that he is black? Which is exactly my point, the left always turns to race first. Of course there are racists and all manner of idiots on both sides but the democrats allow theirs to speak-exhibit A: Al Sharpton –nuff said. To most Americans, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are race-baiting demagogues. Yet they are heroes to the Democratic Party. Most Americans do not see their country as the bigoted and racist nation regularly depicted by both black and white Democratic leaders. my main problem with core modern liberal politics is that race is more often than not the determining factor in things and i dont think it should be. the biggest policy question where this plays out is affirmative action. how is it that the son of denzel washington should get preference for a college admissions, a job, or a government contract over a poor white guy? now if the democrats wanted to do affirmative action based on economic background, then i would still disagree with the majority of it but i could at least conceed some points and see the concept as worth discussing. current racism to correct past racism doesnt make any sense to me. I am a white male and i have never discriminated against anyone, what am i being punished for? So, if you disagree with someone, it is ok to be a racist like those in Maryland right? "Black MD Dem leaders "say that racially tinged attacks" against LG Michael Steele (R) "are fair because he is a conservative" GOPer. Such attacks "include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an 'Uncle Tom' and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log." Kweisi Mfume (D) in response "There is a difference between pointing out the obvious and calling someone names." another point, if you read my comment again, i did not call all democrats racists. i have many liberal friends, some of them very intelligent in their own confused way, and i dont consider them racists (at least not all of them) despite their flawed view of the world and how to fix it. My apologies for the rambling nature of my post, but I need to get back to work and don’t have time to read this over and edit it into a more concise reasoned argument. Lastly, to sfhoya99, yes, i have heard that comment "a lot" from liberal friends shortly after a racist joke. So next time i am in the bay area, i expect you to buy me a beer to settle our bet I look forward to discussing the philosophy behind party of Lincoln (not what those in power are doing with it these days) with you at length at that time, while you wax on about the joys of socialism.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Nov 8, 2005 16:19:01 GMT -5
Lets look at school choice or vouchers, which could start a whole new debate but at the very least opponents must admit that the prospects of vouchers could overwhelming help the lower classes in the inner city which are predominantly black. This is an issue that goes to the core of conservative philosophy and polls very well among republicans An aside-whatever you think of Clarence Thomas as a justice, it should have nothing to do with his skin color, debate the merits of his opinions or work ethic or whatever and I would enjoy reading a back and forth with you and fsohoya on the issue, why does it matter that he is black? Which is exactly my point, the left always turns to race first. Of course there are racists and all manner of idiots on both sides but the democrats allow theirs to speak-exhibit A: Al Sharpton –nuff said. TGO, I read your comments and it is apparent that you really believe them. But there is another side entirely to all of this. It is not a side of "racists" or "confused liberals". Just take the three examples above. School vouchers are opposed because they are not intended to help lower income people and they won't. They are a Republican plan to take public dollars and use them to support private or privledged schooling for wealthy Republican children, while leaving lower income families with even less money going to their schools -- condeming them to a cycle of declining educational standards. If the Republicans really wanted to make our schools better for everyone, as you so idealisitically would like to believe, they would spend money on education as our first national priority. Instead, they start expensive wars on phony excuses and give enormous and unncessary tax breaks to increase the income discrepancy between rich and poor. As for Clarence Thomas, if his skin color doesn't matter, why on earth did Bush the Father nominate him in the first place? No one ever said (except Bush) that he was the most qualified person in America to be on the Supreme Court. He was put there to replace Thurgood Marshall in the "black seat". Clearly, Bush felt it necessary -- politically -- to name another black person to that seat. But the truly cynical thing was that Thomas -- who is supposed to provide diversity and represent black americans on the court -- has a political and judicial philosophy counter to the prevailing beliefs of the vast majority of black americans. MOreover, after he got there by virtue of Affirmative Action -- and even used the "race card" at his own hearing to get Senate approval -- he then denounced Affirmative Action. And what is the basis for Affirmative Action? it is not to penalize white people such as yourself, it is to try to compensate in a small way for the centuries of slavery, family and cultural disruption and discrimination that African Americans have suffered in the USA. That doesn't mean you or I personally did it, but the society did, and the society needs to make amends... for everyone's long term benefit. Finally, as for all manner of idiots on both sides, I can't disagree with that... although the Republican ones are far more dangerous as they start wars, curtail civil rights, destroy the environment and take other steps that threaten the long term peace and health of the country and the world. But as for letting them speak, have you ever listened to Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Tom DeLay, Dick Cheney -- "we will be greeted with flowers", "the insurgency is in its final throes", "Iraq was involved with 9/11", and the rest of the Republican crew?
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