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Post by Frank Black on Oct 4, 2005 9:54:38 GMT -5
Superman II is on this morning and at the end when Superman reverses the force modulator or whatever it was and Zod, Ursa and Non become mortal, he proceeds to murder the three of them. My question is, why kill them when they pose no further threat? Why not put them on trial for murder?
When I first watched the movie I didn't realize that Superman was a murderer. Actually, to be accurate he only murdered Zod. Non's death would be ruled accidental and Lois murdered Ursa.
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,262
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Post by FormerHoya on Oct 4, 2005 10:00:42 GMT -5
Not, by definition, a serial killer, rather a vigilante.
and they totally deserved it. Get'er done Superman.
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Post by Frank Black on Oct 4, 2005 10:07:27 GMT -5
I'm speechless. Perhaps we should change the name of Hoyatalk to "In Praise of Extrajudicial Killingstalk".
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 4, 2005 10:09:35 GMT -5
If you like Superman II (and I do), never, never get talked into watching Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
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Post by Frank Black on Oct 4, 2005 10:16:20 GMT -5
Why? Not enough arbitrary revocations of Constitutional rights?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 4, 2005 10:18:45 GMT -5
Why? Not enough arbitrary revocations of Constitutional rights? Nah, it's just really hard to take Zod seriously when you've seen him cross-dress. |
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hoyahoyasaxa
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
Posts: 464
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on Oct 4, 2005 10:27:08 GMT -5
But how would you try them? What court would believe that they were using superpowers to cause havoc and mayhem? I don't think they could prove it. I think that superheroes and supervillians have to fall outside of the normal judicial system. They operate under a different code.
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Oct 4, 2005 10:30:49 GMT -5
ALL WILL KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!!
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Post by Frank Black on Oct 4, 2005 10:31:11 GMT -5
The eyewitness accounts would be more than adequate to the task, along with Superman's previously demonstration of such supernatural powers. Give the jury some credit before you decide to circumvent the due process clause of the 14th amendment.
"First they came for Zod, and I said nothing..."
--Martin Niemoller
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Post by nychoya3 on Oct 4, 2005 10:46:15 GMT -5
Fascinating. I believe under modern legal doctrine, Superman could have imprisoned them indefinitely as enemy combatants. Though they wore really silly uniforms, and so may have been subject to Geneva conventions.
On the other side of the ledger, he's Superman. The man can reverse the spin of the earth. Who's gonna stop him? You, Frank Black? I don't think so.
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Post by Frank Black on Oct 4, 2005 11:00:05 GMT -5
That's why we wrote the damn Constitution in the first place. Even Superman and Lou Ferrigno have to submit to it, and Superman appears to be on board most of the time. Except when he is executing meglomaniacal superhumans in figure skating outfits.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2005 11:11:39 GMT -5
That's why we wrote the damn Constitution in the first place. Even Superman and Lou Ferrigno have to submit to it, and Superman appears to be on board most of the time. Except when he is executing meglomaniacal superhumans in figure skating outfits. Superman has no obligation to our Constitution. He's not a US citizen. I don't even think he has to abide by the Geneva Convention - I can't imagine that it applies to citizens of other planets who arrive here via meteor..... Our silly human laws don't apply to Superman. Superman IS the law. |
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hoyahoyasaxa
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
Posts: 464
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on Oct 4, 2005 11:34:52 GMT -5
I know Superman stands for "Truth, Justice, and the AMERICAN way." That could imply that he stands for American constitutional principles.
On the other hand, there are some who argue that the term "American" could refer not only to the United States, but all of the Americas. Perhaps he is operating with an understanding of the law as it applies in Colombia, where rebel groups are killed without trial during battles with the government forces. He might see this as justification for his actions.
Hmm...
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Oct 4, 2005 11:45:49 GMT -5
If Superman doesn't uphold the American Way then he is a contradiction in terms.
In addition, Superman as a foreign national would receive no sort of immunity from domestic prosecution. If he is the son of a diplomat from Krypton he could make some sort of convoluted diplomatic immunity claim and then the United States government would have to declare him persona non grata and ship him back to Krypton, which doesn't exist.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,418
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Post by aggypryd on Oct 4, 2005 11:50:36 GMT -5
For some reason, I'm totally enjoying this thread...
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hoyahoyasaxa
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Sead Dizdarezvic doesn't write term papers. The words rearrange themselves out of fear.
Posts: 464
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Post by hoyahoyasaxa on Oct 4, 2005 11:50:47 GMT -5
Proof that HoyaTalk has its finger on the pulse of the (bizarre) world we live in: Nicolas Cage names his new baby after Superman's "Krypton" name: Oscar-winning actor Nicolas Cage is a father again. His wife, Alice Kim Cage, gave birth Monday to a boy, Kal-el Coppola Cage, in New York City, said Cage's Los Angeles-based publicist, Annett Wolf. No other details were available. "They are healthy and happy, and it's quite lovely," Wolf said by phone from New York. Cage is a nephew of filmmaker Francis Ford Coppola. The 41-year-old actor had been slated to play comic book hero Superman, whose Kryptonite name is Kal-el, but the movie fell apart in preproduction. www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051004/ENTERTAINMENT/510040456/1005/ENTERTAINMENT |
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,262
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Post by FormerHoya on Oct 4, 2005 11:50:52 GMT -5
I'm not up on immigration law, but wasn't Superman adopted? Were his adopted parents not United States citizens? Shouldn't there be some sort of provision for that sort of thing? Are you telling me that Angelina Jolie is just bringing more and more non-citizens into the country? Is it obvious that I don't want to be working today?
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Oct 4, 2005 11:51:10 GMT -5
Please move this thread. Or kill it.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Oct 4, 2005 11:54:26 GMT -5
I don't know if he was officially adopted. Drawn out court proceedings don't really make for good sales of comic books. But the point is it doesn't matter whether he was naturalized (or if only Clarke Kent was naturalized and not Superman - they could be two different persons under the law), if he's a foreign national, or if he has dual citizenship - the jurisdiction and enforcement powers for a crime committed in a state by a foreign national who is subsequently aprehended in that state rests with the state in which the crime was committed - except in special cases where some sort of recognized immunity, like Diplomatic or Consular Immunity, exists.
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dTRAIN
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 189
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Post by dTRAIN on Oct 4, 2005 12:02:18 GMT -5
Since the alleged crimes took place at the Fortress of Solitude, which is essentially the embassy for Krypton, the crime must be treated like it occurred on Krypton soil.
I doubt that even a great legal mind like Frank Black is schooled in the laws of Krypton, so I believe that any further discussion would be superfluous.
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