Congrats to the Red Sox and their Fans

[RDF]

Better team won and deserved to win tonight and in the Series. Boston has been the best team in the AL all year and proved it in this series by showing the heart and character of a champion. People can call it a choke job all they want because it's never happened before but I honestly believe the better team won and in my opinion to call it a choke job is not giving Boston enough credit. Not to say NY shouldn't take heat for this because they should but not at expense of giving the Red Sox credit.

As for the Yankees, back to the drawing board and maybe you should take a look at getting players with higher character and less "Star-Appeal". I'd take anyone over Alex Rodriguez and the site of him in pinstripes makes me sick to my stomach. He's everything that is bad about baseball and today's players. By getting him in the offseason, NY deserved to have happen what did this season.

Hope the Sox fans enjoy this and the "Son" rose up and beat "Daddy" for once. More power to you. Just want to know why there was never an INTERLOCKING NY on the front page of Hoyasaxa after Yankee Championships?? ;D

Anyways, one positive for me as a Yankee fan is no more Buck and McCarver until next year and THANK GOD for that. However Buck will re-emerge to ruin my Thanksgiving Meal with him calling the NFL so maybe I should just skip television on FOX altogether!

Again, congrats and best of luck in World Series.

[watsonry]

Well RDF, the only positive is that we can begin speculating about a great, revamped Yankee team for next year:

Say bye-bye to.....

Brown
Heredia
El Duque
Lofton
Clark

Posada and Vazquez could be packaged in different deals if necessary (hello Randy Johnson?)

[DFW HOYA]

Just want to know why there was never an INTERLOCKING NY on the front page of Hoyasaxa after Yankee Championships??

Editor's privilege! [Hey, back to basketball on Thursday.]

Here's the Post's Tom Boswell on the game. A good read, as always.


www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50247-2004Oct21.html

[Joe Hoya]

watsonry said:

Well RDF, the only positive is that we can begin speculating about a great, revamped Yankee team for next year:

Say bye-bye to.....

Brown
Heredia
El Duque
Lofton
Clark

Posada and Vazquez could be packaged in different deals if necessary (hello Randy Johnson?)

Cashman
Torre
Stottlemyre
Mattingly?

[RDF]

watsonry said:

Well RDF, the only positive is that we can begin speculating about a great, revamped Yankee team for next year:

Say bye-bye to.....

Brown
Heredia
El Duque
Lofton
Clark

Posada and Vazquez could be packaged in different deals if necessary (hello Randy Johnson?)

Watson, don't know what will happen but I'm sure hoping we dont spend more money on friggin Free Agents. I'd much rather prefer to go into the market with some smarts and if you do go spend some money---do so on Pitching. We pretty much known the entire checkbook will be thrown at Beltran and he sure is a wonderful player, but I'm tired of the "Star" lineup and miss the teams with O'Neill, Tino, etc..... who were acquired via trade and were winners.

I think you are right on the list of people to be gone and I'd like to see Giambi added to that list but we'll be stuck with his Steriod using butt until he quits playing.

Posada could be dealt and I'd rather go with a defensive catcher and try to develop Navarro behind him then with an overrated, poor defensive catcher in Posada. Jorge is a good person but not a good player. I'm always for Trades because you have to give up something to get something in return and that's fair game in my opinion. It's the Free Agent "Spree" that I don't care for when it comes to Yankees. Guys like Sheffield, A-Rod, and Giambi are just not as likeable as the teams prior to their arrival/that movement in Front Office. I'd rather lose with the '01 team than win with these guys and that's not how a fan should feel, but I do. Only FA I like a lot is Matsui because he plays the game intelligently and is similar to the guys I miss on the Yankees.

As for Vasquez, I think you can chalk up his problems to Stottlemyre and his failures to develop any young pitching. The guy is a very overrated Pitching Coach and always has been. Let's face it, he's been blessed as a Yankee to have a staff consisting of Veterans and when he does have young kid they struggle under his "guidance". Lilly and Westbrook became All Stars away from him, and Weaver was up in top 5 in Quality Starts in NL this year. Vasquez was outstanding the First Half of the year and under Mel's tutelage got progressively worse as season went on.

Should be a fun/wacky offseason but remember the Yankees haven't won a World Championship with a Republican in Office for a LOONNGGG time so you know where I'm leaning towards in the election and I don't even vote/like politics. ;D

[GUHoya07]

DFW said:

Editor's privilege! [Hey, back to basketball on Thursday.]

Here's the Post's Tom Boswell on the game. A good read.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50247-2004Oct21.html

Not a big fan of this editor's privilege stuff. How about we stick to Georgetown Basketball on the Basketball page. No need for anything involving baseball to be on there, especially when it involves a cursed franchise like that .

[DanMcQ]

Thanks RDF. I share many of your sentiments.

One correction regarding Schilling. You took him to task for showboating by marching out to the bullpen. Well, he'd had his ankle sutured earlier that day and WAS available to pitch if they needed him. Was it intimidation? Absolutely. Was it showboating? Probably a bit - Schilling is pretty good at self promotion. But I don't think it was as shallow as you interpreted it.

Comparing Cabrera and what he gives to the Sox and A-Rod and his collapse on the world's greatest stage, I know I'm glad Theo Epstein didn't cave in to Texas' demands this past summer.

Keep the faith. 4 more wins away. ;D

[Joe Hoya]

Can the editor leave a "Greatest Choke of All-Time" banner on the front page for a full year?

RDF is right, it wasn't totally a choke-job; the Red Sox earned those first two wins. Rivera technically blew both saves, but the second one was Gordon's mess. Then, believe it or not, superior pitching in Game 6 and 7 (and a little, um, "divine" intervention from Johnny Damon, maybe?) held the Daddies off. Again, a big thank you to the Red Sox for this win; I don't care if they win the World Series and end their "curse" or whatever, I just wanted the Yankees to lose. And for it to happen this way...I guess I just have to tip my cap, and call the Red Sox my daddies.

[HoyaFanNY]

mattingly isn't going anywhere. he the next manager i think. watching arod pouting in the dugout after the game was priceless.

i say cashman takes the brunt of the wrath of the boss, along with brown and vazquez. i think torre sticks around another year, but who knows. they should focus all their efforts on beltran and pitching. adding beltran and giambi back to that lineup makes it almost unfair.

god bless the bo sox. lets hope they don't have a alcs hangover.

[YB]

There are no congratulations to anyone. The Bosox got lucky, but they have not won a damn thing yet. Ask Bill Buckner.

[nodak89]

[DanMcQ]

YB said:

There are no congratulations to anyone. The Bosox got lucky, but they have not won a damn thing yet. Ask Bill Buckner.

My my my - what bitter words we write this morning. Lucky? Are you SERIOUS? Did you actually watch any of the games?

You are correct about one thing, they have not won the World Series yet.

Story is too good for words

www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/10/21/story_is_too_good_for_words/

[Joe Hoya]

Dan - that's typical Daddy-fan talk. Well, it's actually typical of fans of any team that just made the worst collapse in the history of sports (not just baseball...this one even trumps the 1964 Phillies, thankfully).

Let them stew over it for a while...now they know what it's like to be in your shoes.

**I'd add the shoes of fans of any Philadelphia sports team as well, but we all know no Philly team would ever blow a 3-0 lead simply because they would never actually GET a 3-0 lead. ::Sigh:: Despite the failures of my teams, I sleep better at night knowing the Daddies have been put to bed. It's all I got.

[HoyaRejuveNation85]

Congrats to the Sox fans, but do we really need to have page one links for baseball? Let's get back to Hoya Basketball.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

HoyaFanNY said:

i say cashman takes the brunt of the wrath of the boss, along with brown and vazquez.

I would love to have Steinbrenner drop Cashman, leaving him available to be picked up by his hometown Washington National Gray Expo-Senators.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

YB said:

There are no congratulations to anyone. The Bosox got lucky, but they have not won a damn thing yet. Ask Bill Buckner.

YB,

Lucky? Lucky that this year the bad calls in favor of the Yanks were overturned by umps who actually saw the plays? Lucky that they played clutch defense and played aggressively on the basepaths (the proven way to beat the Yankees over the course of this season)? Lucky that they stocked their bullpen with actual relievers, and not just a bunch of extra starters and a set-up/closer combo like the Yanks?

Sounds more like bitter to me from a yankees fan -- like you're learning pretty quickly from the Red Sox fans (myself included) who have perfected the art over the last, well, let's say "several" years.


When you don't treat winning like a divine right, you may learn to appreciate good baseball.

[GUHoya07]

HoyaRejuveNation85 said:

Congrats to the Sox fans, but do we really need to have page one links for baseball? Let's get back to Hoya Basketball.

Agreed, and why don't all the Sox fans calm down until they actually win the thing that really matters. I understand the excitement that comes with beating a team that has absolutely pounded you into submission in recent years, but until the Sox win the Series the curse will live on. They have been in the Series before since 1918, the next series is the one that really matters, not the ALCS.

[YB]

I agree with 2007 here. The thing that matters is the ring, baby. The Bosawx have many "pennants" since 1918; what the DON'T have are rings.

The Babe may have abandoned us for the ALCS, but he won't let the Curse die.

[WilsonBlvdHoya]

I agree: the Curse dies when the Sawx wear WS rings.

Nevertheless, the 2004 ALCS will go a long way towards exorcising many a demon in New England. Still the AL Pennant count since 1918 reads Yankees 39, Sawx 5. And we all know what the WS count is.....

I'd like to see Cards-Sawx a la 46 or 67, as DFW stated earlier. OTOH, seeing Clemens pitch a WS Game 6 or 7 against the Sawx at Fenway would be something spectacular!

[RDF]

A few thoughts on some of the posts in this thread and then one baseball thought that will play a strategic key in the World Series:

1. Sox weren't lucky--they were the BETTER team. If you play 26 games and the opposing team wins 15 of them, they are better, period.

2. I think NY media is overdoing the "Choke" angle. I heard Tim Kurkjian say it best "I prefer to call it the GREATEST COMEBACK" because that gives credit to the team who won---and how they did it. Choking to me is when you are favored and supposed to win. Now if the Yankees had blown that lead during the regular season and not made the postseason at all--that's a CHOKE. But to be beaten when you have your best on the mound in Game 4--that is just credit to Boston and their heart as a team. I don't blame Rivera for "Blowing a Save" in Game 5 because he came into a 1st and 3rd Situation with nobody out and only gave up the tying run---which is to be assumed. He pitched well for the most part, just not well enough.
I think Yankees should take some heat, but not as much as NY media is making this out to be--because that is under the assumption that Yankees were the better team--they weren't and proved it.

3. Sox fans saying NY fans "need time to accept this defeat" etc... obviously dont' know what thread they are posting under. I've been saying this all year and it was proven last night--you were better and deserved to win. I thought A-Rod changed the entire momentum of the season (though I still think Boston was better) and offered my congrats immediately when I got online. If that is not good enough, then I don't what is, guess I'll not comment at all in the future.

4. The one thing I don't like about the media and especially ESPN is the "regionalization" of sports coverage. To me this site is doing that right now and it's really lame that the importance of something only matters if a certain team wins. I have no problem with a zillion posts about Boston, how they beat the Yankees, Yankees suck, Jeter is overrated, etc... but to post things at the top of the board and NEVER see this all the times other members teams have won is very ESPN-like. Believe it or not, I think many people in America could give a rip about Boston or New York and to much of the Red Sox Nation surprise, you guys aren't as loved as you think--it's just that people hate the Yankees more--which I understand as a Yankee fan. Sometimes I think New England people and Boston fans don't understand they aren't loved--and maybe this will expose some of the homerism that ESPN has--believe me I understand how the Yankees get beneficial treatment as well and I think it's just as sickening.


Baseball wise, this World Series will be very interesting in one capacity. Boston's got the advantage and will be favored over either team but I think it's very important that they dont' fall behind against Cards or Astros because of one reason---NL rules in NL parks. That will force Ortiz to play 1B and that weakens the defense immensely. A great infield can be ordinary by having a terrible 1B--not average, he's terrible defensively. I think Boston and New York suffer in doing the little things and while Boston proved to be the best team in the AL, the NL style of game isn't condusive to how they play. Rallies get killed by having Pitchers hitting instead of a quality hitter at the 9th spot.

I think Boston will win over either team, but how they handle the opening two games will be key because dropping the first two and having to go to NL City wouldn't be as easy to overcome in my opinion--not because they aren't good enough, just because the move to keep Ortiz in the lineup offensively weakens the defense. I would play Pokey Reese at 2B in the NL city to give the right side of the IF more range and help him out. Not trying to nit-pick either, just talking strategically and I'm one that thought NY would lose to either Houston or StL just as I thought Florida would beat Yankees last year-- and they did.

I like Boston's pitching a lot better than either NL team though and that will be the difference and lead to the Sox winning in my opinion. Just sharing some thoughts after reading some posts and tiring of the "Curse" talk by Yankee fans. It's not about a damn curse, it's about baseball and who has better team. Babe Ruth is dead. Ghosts don't win games--better players and making plays do. If Boston loses, it will be because the other team is better, not because of some crappy fairytale that so many spew at them. Yankees have owned Boston because they have been a MUCH BETTER TEAM/ORGANIZATION--not because of spirits.