Making Alt. Medicine Mandatory at GU Med

[Bando]

This is very, very bad. Apparently Georgetown Med School is moving to teach all sorts of alternative medicine techniques as part of it's mandatory curriculum. So all medicine students are going to learn about accupuncture, homeopathy, and all sorts of other quackish nonsense. This is in no way good for the university as a whole. They might as well teach ID in the biology classes if they keep this up.

[nodak89]

If they are trying to teach the med students how to do those things, then that's not so good.

If they are trying to teach them about those things, then that's good.

Some of those alt med things that people do can impact conventional medical treatment adversely. Knowing something about the 11 herbs and spices that your patient is on is important.

[dairishhoya]

This has been going at Georgetown for several years now, I encourage you to learn more about the program and how Georgetown is leading in this space. Here is one of several press releases about the program:

explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=2963

[Bando]

I would agree. However, I think this is more "know about it so you can use it" than "know about it so you can debunk it/know it's effects". Just my assessment so far. What do you think?

[Bando]

dairishhoya said:

This has been going at Georgetown for several years now, I encourage you to learn more about the program and how Georgetown is leading in this space. Here is one of several press releases about the program:

explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=2963

At first glance, this looks very very sketchy. Why is it Georgetown's job to scientifically validate this stuff? This stuff gets disproven all the time, but true believers discount you as not being "open minded". At the Med School, why should CAM be given the same status as medicine that is evidence-based and peer-reviewed?

[nodak89]

here's a quote:

The goal of the program is to train future researchers to expand scientific evidence of the benefits and risks of CAM. Georgetown is the only American medical school that offers a graduate degree program in complementary and alternative medicine.

“The academic medical establishment can do one of two things: ignore the rising tide of CAM and how it affects patients, or study it in an open-minded, scientifically valid way,” said Adam Myers, Ph.D., professor of physiology and co-director of the new Master’s Program.

The CAM Program, run by the Department of Physiology and Biophysics, emphasizes traditional methods of scientific inquiry while training students in critical analysis of current CAM research, identifying areas where more research is needed, and providing practice in designing research studies. The curriculum includes required courses in physiology, biochemistry, biostatistics, nutrition, herbs and dietary supplements, a survey course in CAM, a seminar series on physiology and integrative medicine, and two courses on mind-body medicine, one of which trains students in stress reduction techniques. Electives include courses in research techniques, bioethics, medical immunology and microbiology, and legal issues in CAM. Students are also required to do a research project or practicum in the CAM field, and will understand key components of clinical trial design.

[hilltopper2000]

Heck, I'd support having them teach voodoo if it would get the med center out of the red.

[Bando]

Good point, Hilltopper. However, I'm afraid of GU becoming the school where they teach you to use crystals to treat cancer, or better living through qi manipulation. I feel it wouldn't be so much worth it then.

[Deleted]

bando said:

Good point, Hilltopper. However, I'm afraid of GU becoming the school where they teach you to use crystals to treat cancer, or better living through qi manipulation. I feel it wouldn't be so much worth it then.

Are they training a generation of Tor Eckman's???

"I'll tell you what you do, George... you go to Tor Eckman. He'll fix you right up. He's a herbalist, a healer. He's not just gonna fix the tonsils and the adenoids, he is gonna cahnge the whole way you function. Body AND mind."

"Eckman? Isn't he doing time?!?"

"No, no, no... he's out! He got out! See, the medical establishment tried to frame him. It's all politics. But he's a rebel."

[Filo]

I noticed that my aura has a tiny pinhole in it. Guess I will have to head down to the hilltop for some repair work.

[RockawayHoya]

nodak89 said:

If they are trying to teach the med students how to do those things, then that's not so good.

If they are trying to teach them about those things, then that's good.

Some of those alt med things that people do can impact conventional medical treatment adversely. Knowing something about the 1 herbs and spices that your patient is on is important.

I couldn't have written this better. It's important that they should at least be informed of alternative medicine.

[Bando]

rockawayhoya said:

I couldn't have written this better. It's important that they should at least be informed of alternative medicine.

It's not at all clear to me that they're just being informed. They're wedding CAM to the mandatory curriculum. So an accupuncturist will give a presentation in an anatomy or neuroscience class that students must pass to graduate. That seems to be much more involved that being informed.

Beside isn't this the same argument IDers use to get watered down creationism taught in biology classrooms? They just want students exposed to ID, or to be "taught the conteroversy". It's the same bull with CAM in medical classrooms.

ID isn't science, so it shouldn't be taught in science classrooms. CAM isn't evidence-based medicine, it shouldn't be taught in our med schools. All this will do is make me wary of any Georgetown doctor from here on out.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

You go to the doctor?

[hoyatables]

tothebeach said:

You go to the doctor?

BWAH HA HA HA HA!!!

Actually, i do like the fact that Bando has become a medical expert. Good to know!

[hoya4ever]

Guys, the reason that our medical school is special is because of the values of considering body AND mind when teaching their students. The reports Georgetown Med grads get when they practice support this. They are some of the most praised doctors in doctor-patient communication and it is because of the cura personalis. It only makes sense that they are taught many different things. If you are worried about us getting a bad reputation do not be, the folks at the medical school have goals about bettering our standing and they are not about to do something that would damage us.

[Bando]

hoya4ever said:

Guys, the reason that our medical school is special is because of the values of considering body AND mind when teaching their students. The reports Georgetown Med grads get when they practice support this. They are some of the most praised doctors in doctor-patient communication and it is because of the cura personalis. It only makes sense that they are taught many different things. If you are worried about us getting a bad reputation do not be, the folks at the medical school have goals about bettering our standing and they are not about to do something that would damage us.

So you're asking me to trust administrators at Georgetown to make correct decisions? Wow, I feel so much better now. They've never steered us wrong in the past.

Where did I say that this had anything to do with teaching patient-doctor communication? It's about teaching pseudoscience as medicine.

[hoya4ever]

I meant it as in it is a part of the same curriculum that teaches really good patient doctor communication because of its all inclusiveness.

I personally do not believe in alternative medicine but anything that better informs our grads and doctors is good by me. The administrators of the med school are actually pretty good. Most people think that they waste our money but that is trouble that every med school has.

[Bando]

That makes no sense. If we really want to get inclusive, shouldn't GU Med teach phrenology, leech therapy, and the bodily humours, then? Inclusiveness should not be the standard for addition the curriculum, science should.

And I would consider a doctor schooled in practicing alternative medicine as less informed, if anything.

[Bando]

tothebeach said:

You go to the doctor?

hoyatables said:

BWAH HA HA HA HA!!!

Actually, i do like the fact that Bando has become a medical expert. Good to know!

I hate you guys.
</Cartman>

[nodak89]

At this stage, blissful ignorance is not part of the reality of my practice.

I have many patients who have ADHD, autism, and even just plain old ear infections, who ask me about this stuff all the time. I even bought the AMA textbook on alternative meds to have some clue about this stuff.