Palestine Solidarity Movement advocates terrorism

[husaria1683]

(Additional information added on 15 January 2006; see end of thread. Georgetown's administration has been informed of the Palestine Solidarity Movement's open advocacy of terroristic attacks on children.)

The Palestine Solidarity Movement (also known as the International Solidarity Movement) has announced that it will hold its Fifth Annual Divestment [from Israel] Conference at Georgetown University in February. This can be verified from the group's own Web site. In addition to advocating and facilitating terroristic violence, the organization is on record as engaging in violent hate speech that might (not legal advice, I am not a lawyer) border on incitement to riot as shown here. Also, this group recruits impressionable young college students to participate in "direct action" (nonviolent but illegal behavior) abroad, in the hope of getting them injured or killed for propaganda purposes (like Rachel Corrie).

A HISTORY OF VIOLENT THREATS, CONTRARY TO GU's CODE OF CONDUCT
Georgetown University's Code of Conduct's Preamble states, "Especially intolerable in view of the University's commitment to respect for the person are offenses against persons because of their race, religion, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation." However, per www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=85 (and other online sources),

"Recently, the Director of the Solidarity Movement, George Rishmawi, explained to the San Francisco Chronicle that the recruitment of American student volunteers is useful to the Palestinian Movement because 'if some of these foreign volunteers get shot or even killed, then the international media will sit up and take notice.' When the Solidarity Movement met at the University of Michigan, delegates chanted 'Kill the Jews.'"

I am not an attorney and I don't know the point at which conduct crosses the line from freedom of expression to incitement to riot but these are not the kind of people I would want anywhere near my property, much less on it. At best, the appearance of the Palestine Solidarity Movement at Georgetown in February will be very bad for the university's image. At worst, a repetition of the group's U Michigan behavior could result in police having to be called in.

It is on record that President DeGioia has been made aware of this group's background, and University Safety, Risk Management, and Public Relations have been copied on this material. (More detail at www.israpundit.com/archives/2006/01/open_letter_to_11.php)

They can easily verify all these things independently as opposed to taking my word for it, which I do not expect them to do as I obviously do not like the Palestine Solidarity Movement. Once they do verify it, it is inconceivable that they will knowingly and willfully allow an organization like this to use GU's facilities for any purpose whatsoever.

[dairishhoya]

Dear Clutter Police,

We respectively request that you shut this thread down, since it's a re-wording of the Georgetown "hosting anti-Israel conference" thread. We would hate to be forced to attack the moderators of the board. Learn more about us at Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Thank you for your time and attention to detail.

Sincerely,

Mehmed II (the Conqueror)
Director, The Ottoman Empire

[husaria1683]

Mehmed II, congratulations on taking Constantinople in 1453. Then, however, your Janissaries were up against a bunch of Byzantines, whose bureaucratic system, well, speaks for itself. I bet Constantine's archers had to fill out a dozen forms just to get a quiver of arrows delivered to the ramparts. ;D You admittedly deserve credit for that giant cannon and for moving your fleet on land to bypass the chain that defended the Golden Horn.

Taking on the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was quite another matter entirely. We do, however, have Kara Mustafa (he worked for your successor Mehmed IV) to thank for the modern coffee shop. For some reason, though, the name "Sobieskibucks" just never caught on. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna
"After the battle, the Austrians discovered many bags of coffee in the abandoned Turkish encampment. Using this captured stock, Franciszek Jerzy Kulczycki opened the first coffeehouse in Vienna and the third in Europe." (I can imagine how that battle might be fought today; we'd have Polish White Eagle and Turkish Crescent mascots running around the sidelines, Janissary marching bands pounding kettle drums, and so on.)

Krol Jan Sobieski III
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
RULE POLONIA!

On a more serious note, by the way, the conduct of the Ottoman Empire can be compared to that of the Palestinians in Gaza, who destroyed greenhouses that had been given to them for the purpose of raising food, and who burned down synagogues that they might have converted into housing, schools, or even mosques (as the Ottomans did with the Hagia Sophia). Per the Wikipedia article,

"Some churches, including the Hagia Sophia, were converted to mosques. The sultans were careful not to destroy the Christian mosaics but covered them with plaster. In 1935, after five centuries, the complete removal of the plaster was carried out after the new Republic of Turkey, "in the interest of art", converted the Hagia Sophia into a museum. This very treatment of those old Christian mosaics — a treatment not of destruction but of conscious preservation — illustrates the similar fate of the Christian people of the Balkans who likewise had a cultural revivification as nations and states."

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

dairishhoya said:

Dear Clutter Police,

We respectively request that you shut this thread down, since it's a re-wording of the Georgetown "hosting anti-Israel conference" thread. We would hate to be forced to attack the moderators of the board. Learn more about us at Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Thank you for your time and attention to detail.

Sincerely,

Mehmed II (the Conqueror)
Director, The Ottoman Empire

I prefer www.uncyclopedia.org for my learning thank you very much.

[dairishhoya]

stpetersburghoya said:

I prefer www.uncyclopedia.org for my learning thank you very much.

Completely agree SPH. In fact, the Uncylopedia recently helped me find my inner sock puppet.

uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Finding_Your_Inner_Sock_Puppet

[husaria1683]

This is becoming a major scandal and burning controversy that is already affecting Georgetown's reputation along with alumni (donor) goodwill. frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=20767. "Georgetown’s Capitulation to Radical Islam, By Joe Kaufman and Jeffrey Epstein FrontPageMagazine.com | January 6, 2006"

[Cambridge]

Husaria,

Not to be a trouble maker, but what is so threatening about dialogue? Do you really think this gift will establish some sort of base of operations for a genocide? Are we concerned for the safety of students? I understand your anger toward Saudi, but do the actions and history of a nation so tarnish its citizens that all its citizens should be judged so harshly? Under that logic, shouldn't many nations be turning away the benevolence of US donors? I guess my question is, isn't it better to engage those who seem willing (even if perhaps only superficially) to engage in cross-cultural dialogue than to turn them away and foster even more discord and seperation? Personally, those willing to create a center for dialogue should be applauded because even if the solution seems terribly niave and optimistic, I prefer to support any efforts towards that scenario than to resign myself to the darker more foreboding prospect of a zero-sum race war or cultural clash that far too many seem almost eager to enter. (on both sides)

[husaria1683]

cambridgehoya said:

Husaria,

Not to be a trouble maker, but what is so threatening about dialogue? Do you really think this gift will establish some sort of base of operations for a genocide? Are we concerned for the safety of students? I understand your anger toward Saudi, but do the actions and history of a nation so tarnish its citizens that all its citizens should be judged so harshly?

"All its citizens" might apply in the case of a democratic nation like the United States, in which the elected government supposedly represents the will and values of most of its people. Saudi Arabia has the worst possible Freedom House ratings, 7 on a 1-7 scale with 1 being best, for political rights and civil rights. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy and ordinary Saudis have no say in their government's policies and actions.
www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&year=2005&country=6825


I have nothing whatsoever against the Saudi people. In fact, we must recognize that half of them (the female half) live in nearly the equivalent of chattel slavery. According to the Freedom House page,

"Women are not treated as equal members of society. They may not legally drive cars, and their use of public facilities is restricted when men are present. By law and custom, women cannot travel within or outside of the country without a male relative. Laws discriminate against women in a range of matters including family law, and a woman's testimony is treated as inferior to a man's in court."

Girls are given away in marriage (with no say in the matter) as early as age 12, whereupon they become the effective property of their husbands. Female American citizens have in fact been treated in this manner.

"...the State department admits that the Saudis have never returned a kidnapped child to the U.S. To the contrary, the Saudi response has always been to obfuscate and propose "solutions" (e.g. a special commission) that are aimed at delaying everything until the issue fades or the children are old enough to be married off and impregnated. In Saudi Arabia, marriage can come as young as 12 years old for girls." William McGurn, "Saudi PR Turns from Spin to Stonewalling," Wall Street Journal, 16 December 2002, A12.

"Under Sharia, a girl becomes eligible for marriage from the moment she starts to menstruate. In countries where Islamic law is practiced, child brides are common. ...In Canada, battered Muslim women say that their husbands told them that it is a God-given right to hit them."
---"Unfree Under Islam," by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Wall Street Journal, August 16 2005). That is why we have Megan's Law in this country, by the way.

To answer your question, I do not believe the Muslim studies center will become a base for "genocide" but I do think it is to be used as a propaganda organ for militant forms of "Islam." I make a very clear distinction, by the way, between militant "Islam" (aka Islamofascism) and relating to God through Islamic prayers and rituals. The latter is what religious freedom is all about but the former is the same sort of thing that started the Crusades, Inquisition, and Thirty Years War.

Modern Christians and Jews no longer kill people for being the wrong religion, nor do Muslims in advanced countries like Turkey. Another WSJ article notes that Muslim-Americans are in fact more productive than average American citizens. There are unfortunately so-called Muslims in places like Iran (which threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" and has indicated that the United States is to be destroyed first) who use religion to justify war and other atrocities. Deception and propaganda are among the tools they use and it is hard to assign any other motive to donating $20 million for a center to "promote Muslim-Christian understanding" when the donor is part of a ruling family that persecutes Christians.

[Cambridge]

Modern Christians and Jews no longer kill people for being the wrong religion, nor do Muslims in advanced countries like Turkey. Another WSJ article notes that Muslim-Americans are in fact more productive than average American citizens. There are unfortunately so-called Muslims in places like Iran (which threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" and has indicated that the United States is to be destroyed first) who use religion to justify war and other atrocities. Deception and propaganda are among the tools they use and it is hard to assign any other motive to donating $20 million for a center to "promote Muslim-Christian understanding" when the donor is part of a ruling family that persecutes Christians.

There are a few hundred thousands Iraqis and Palestinians who have arguably been killed just because they are muslim. Whether you agree or not, that is their perception and its not that farfetched.

[husaria1683]

cambridgehoya said:

There are a few hundred thousands Iraqis and Palestinians who have arguably been killed just because they are muslim. Whether you agree or not, that is their perception and its not that farfetched.

NO Iraqi has been killed (at least not by the United States) for being a Muslim, although Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites have been killed by Shiites and Sunnis respectively for being the wrong "kinds" of Muslims. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed by Saddam Hussein, not for being Muslims but for being political opponents or ethnic minorities (Kurds).

NO Palestinians have been killed by the Israelis (at least not as a matter of official policy) for being Muslims, although many have been killed for being terrorists. In contrast, Palestinians have been killed by other Palestinians for being Christians or even for wanting to live in peace with Israel.

Oh yes, to "dumb down" the commentary on the Saudis, let's try an analogy. ;D

Saudi Royal Family = Harkonnens from Frank Herbert's Dune. The Harkonnens did things like dump their leftover water (scarce on Arrakis) into the sand right in front of Fremen (Arab-like natives) who were begging for water. The Saudi Royal Family does things like buy $50,000 pieces of Italian furniture for special events and then burn it so no commoner can ever defile it by sitting in it, as opposed to (for example) auctioning it off and donating the proceeds to poor Saudis or even Palestinians.

Ordinary Saudis = the Fremen I just mentioned.

[WilsonBlvdHoya]

A GU Communications Note on this---

explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=12183

[husaria1683]

wilsonblvdhoya said:

A GU Communications Note on this---

explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=12183

There is certainly no law against having the conference (as long as the Palestine Solidarity Movement doesn't engage in conduct like what is described below) but I don't know how Georgetown alumni and others will feel about the university associating its name with an organization that just posted a solicitation for someone to bomb Ariel Sharon's hospital room. (Al-Awda is an organizational member of the Palestine Solidarity Movement).

www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=20851

Mr. Chemayel's statement is, I believe, a terroristic threat and it will be reported to law enforcement. (P.S. before anyone says "FrontPageMag" is a right-wing Bue neocon publication, I have seen additional verification that the E-mail described in the article was indeed posted to a Yahoo discussion group.)

[SaxaCalHoya]

husaria1683 said:

wilsonblvdhoya said:

A GU Communications Note on this---

explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=12183

There is certainly no law against having the conference (as long as the Palestine Solidarity Movement doesn't engage in conduct like what is described below) but I don't know how Georgetown alumni and others will feel about the university associating its name with an organization that just posted a solicitation for someone to bomb Ariel Sharon's hospital room. (Al-Awda is an organizational member of the Palestine Solidarity Movement).

www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=20851

Mr. Chemayel's statement is, I believe, a terroristic threat and it will be reported to law enforcement. (P.S. before anyone says "FrontPageMag" is a right-wing Bue neocon publication, I have seen additional verification that the E-mail described in the article was indeed posted to a Yahoo discussion group.)

Sorry husaria1683, just not buying the FrontPageMag propaganda you're trying to sell to us. Georgetown has clearly answered the question of whether or not PSM is a known terrorist origanization:

explore.georgetown.edu/blogs/?id=12109

Is the sponsor of the conference, the Palestinian Solidarity Movement, a known terrorist group?

Federal law enforcement officials have told Georgetown University that the Palestinian Solidarity Movement is not a terrorist organization.

You will obviously come back sharing more content from FrontPageMag and other obscure websites ... not to mention saying something about Lee Kaplan and his "expertise." My question to you is if Mr. Kaplan's information is so accurate why isn't he working with federal law enforcement officials to declare the PSM a terrorist organization instead of publishing 2000 word commentaries on his website as "proof" of their actions?

Perhaps I'm not that smart and it is wiser to make a name for youself on questionable blog sites instead of working with law enforcement officials to stop terrorists. Then again maybe the federal law enforcement officials actually know more than Mr. Kaplan.

[husaria1683]

SaxaCalHoya said:

Sorry husaria1683, just not buying the FrontPageMag propaganda you're trying to sell to us. Georgetown has clearly answered the question of whether or not PSM is a known terrorist origanization:

explore.georgetown.edu/blogs/?id=12109

Is the sponsor of the conference, the Palestinian Solidarity Movement, a known terrorist group?

Federal law enforcement officials have told Georgetown University that the Palestinian Solidarity Movement is not a terrorist organization.

Whoa! I NEVER said the PSM was a terrorist organization. In fact, I will tell you outright that it is NOT listed on the U.S. State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). I do not believe that Lee Kaplan ever said it was either.

I did say-- and I cited a pro-Palestinian publication and not FrontPage as the source-- that PSM leaders Adam Shapiro and Huwaida Arraf have advocated terroristic violence. It's not illegal for them to make the generalized statement that the Palestinians have the right to resist the so-called Israeli occupation with arms, or that the Palestinian "resistance" must use violent as well as nonviolent means, just as it's not illegal for a Ku Klux Klansman to make a generalized statement that "all Black people should be killed" or for Michael Moore to call the terrorists who are murdering our soldiers "Minutemen." The reprehensible nature of this speech, albeit legal, should however bar these individuals or organizations from using any private property (like Georgetown University) as a speaking platform. The First Amendment guarantees them the right to say it but it doesn't guarantee them access to Georgetown University's private property.

www.freepalestinecampaign.org/attacks_on_ISM.htm
That's "Free Palestine Campaign," not "FrontPage Magazine," citing in turn the Palestine Chronicle ;D.

"Two of the ISM's well-known leaders, Adam Shapiro and his wife, Huwaida Arraf, defended the use of violence against Israelis in a January 2002 article in the Palestine Chronicle:"

"The Palestinian resistance must take on a variety of characteristics -- both nonviolent and violent. But most importantly it must develop a strategy involving both aspects... [W]e accept that Palestinians have a right to resist with arms, as they are an occupied people upon whom force and violence is being used. The Geneva Conventions accept that armed resistance is legitimate for an occupied people, and there is no doubt that this right cannot be denied."

HOWEVER, Raja Chemayal's alleged request for a suicide bomber to bomb the hospital in which Ariel Sharon is being treated, in conjunction with giving the Prime Minister's room number and directions for getting there, goes beyond merely offensive speech like generalized advocacy of violence. It sounds to me (not legal advice, I am not a lawyer) like a specific solicitation to commit murder, which is a felony in the U.S. and most other countries.

Again, PSM is not a terrorist organization, I never said it was, and you may as well stop beating up that straw man. We have established beyond doubt, however, that PSM's leaders have advocated terrorism and now there is strong evidence that an Al-Awda leader (Al-Awda being a PSM member organization) has used the Internet to solicit the commission of murder.

[SaxaCalHoya]

husaria1683 said:

Whoa! I NEVER said the PSM was a terrorist organization. In fact, I will tell you outright that it is NOT listed on the U.S. State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). I do not believe that Lee Kaplan ever said it was either.

Oops, I guess I must've been confused when you stated in another post that the PSM is the ISM and then when you point to content by FrontPageMag and Lee Kaplan, both of which declare:

The ISM (International Solidarity Movement) is a front group for Yasser Arafat’s PLO and its affiliated Palestinian terrorist groups, such as the PFLP and Hamas.

The ISM has cells all over the US and Canada, but principally near universities and colleges.

ISM leadership has contact with Arafat and his allies in Cuba, North Korea, Iran and most of the Arab dictatorships.

We recognize that the ISM is an extension of the PLO, PFLP and Hamas that has targeted American university campuses and students in a goal of indoctrinating the next U.S. generations of students with false information.

Their purpose is to deceive western democracies that it is “peace group, ” while aiding in the terrorist attacks and efforts of the PLO to destroy Israel.

In the coming year, it is our intention to reveal to the American public the key players of the ISM here in the USA, Canada and Europe and to educate the public who they really represent: the PLO, the PFLP, Hamas and other terrorists under Yasser Arafat.

My apologies that I actually read the underlying message that is presented in this content. Next time I'll ignore the subtext and just focus on the 2000 words of blather.

[husaria1683]

SaxaCalHoya said:

husaria1683 said:

Whoa! I NEVER said the PSM was a terrorist organization. In fact, I will tell you outright that it is NOT listed on the U.S. State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). I do not believe that Lee Kaplan ever said it was either.

Oops, I guess I must've been confused when you stated in another post that the PSM is the ISM and then when you point to content by FrontPageMag and Lee Kaplan, both of which declare:

The ISM (International Solidarity Movement) is a front group for Yasser Arafat’s PLO and its affiliated Palestinian terrorist groups, such as the PFLP and Hamas.

The ISM has cells all over the US and Canada, but principally near universities and colleges.

ISM leadership has contact with Arafat and his allies in Cuba, North Korea, Iran and most of the Arab dictatorships.

I am not privy to Mr. Kaplan's evidence although I find what he writes credible in view of what I know from the ISM/PSM's own statements, which are quoted elsewhere in this discussion. Most are from sources friendly to the ISM/PSM or at least neutral so I have to assume that someone is not just making these things up.

[SaxaCalHoya]

[quote author=husaria1683 board=bluegray thread=1136491208 post=1137111229
I am not privy to Mr. Kaplan's evidence although I find what he writes credible in view of what I know from the ISM/PSM's own statements, which are quoted elsewhere in this discussion. Most are from sources friendly to the ISM/PSM or at least neutral so I have to assume that someone is not just making these things up.[/quote]

How do you find what he writes credible? He stated in a FrontPageMag artice the following regarding Georgetown:

That Georgetown would look the other way comes as no surprise. One of Bin Talal's "gifts" to Georgetown University was the second largest one in the University's history-20 million dollars. No doubt after Duke, the PSM had trouble finding an American university willing to host such a venue again, but money talks and Georgetown listens.

He is clearly trying to say that the $20 million gift to Georgetown bought this conference, yet provides no proof whatsoever for this statement. The only two things in common is that they both deal with the Middle East. To try and connect a donor's gift with a student group's programming is absurd, yet he seems to feel like he can publish whatever he wants without facts on his websites. So I hope you'll understand why I gristle at your decleration of support for his "journalistic" work.

If you took some time to actually learn about our institution perhaps you would actually understand Georgetown's commitment to intellectual discovery and dialogue.

[Adrian Sarkanyi]

Another gem from our Saudi friends:

memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD106906

[A Sarkanyi]

Another gem from our Saudi friends

memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=antisemitism&ID=SP106506

[husaria1683]

SaxaCalHoya said:

If you took some time to actually learn about our institution perhaps you would actually understand Georgetown's commitment to intellectual discovery and dialogue.

(Changed 1/15/06 due to breaking news) How does this "commitment to intellectual discovery and dialogue" fit in with inviting an organization whose spokesperson advocates terroristic attacks on children? Would GU invite Ward Churchill, who referred to the victims of the 9/11 attacks as "little Eichmanns" who deserved to be burned alive in the Twin Towers, for "intellectual discovery and dialogue?" Whereas they do have a right to say it, they don't have any Constitutional right to use GU's private property to say it.

www.discoverthenetwork.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=944
"Charlotte Kates is a spokesperson for the group New Jersey Solidarity. A self-professed Communist, she joined the Communist party at age 13 and her favorite book is State and Revolution, by Lenin. As of May 2004, the 23-year-old Kates was a law student at Rutgers University, and was also a leader of the Palestine Solidarity Movement on that campus." Ms. Kates:

(1) Leader of Rutgers University's Palestine Solidarity Movement
(2) Has said that Israeli children are "legitimate" targets for Palestinian suicide bombers

www.unitedjerusalem.org/index2.asp?id=376298
"This meeting was originally set to take place at Rutgers University, but organizers moved it to OSU when Rutgers University had the good sense to cancel it. However, the cancellation only took place after Rutgers organizer Charlotte Kates publicly declared that Israeli children are "legitimate" targets of suicide bombers. Kates took part in the OSU meeting, where she was joined by many other radical activists advocating the destruction of Israel "by any means necessary.""