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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 14, 2005 14:12:39 GMT -5
1. Finish MSF 2. Buy off the opposition to the Boathouse 3. Renovate Locker Rooms, Training facilities, and office space in McDonough
$20M wouldn't be enough to get an on-campus arena anywhere near started, but it could be enough to clear out most of the obstacles to beginning the arena campaign.
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hoya4ever
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Post by hoya4ever on Dec 14, 2005 14:31:37 GMT -5
I am just curious, would money donated mean that Georgetown can spend the money it would spend on the center if the donation hadn't happened to something else...?
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 14, 2005 15:12:53 GMT -5
It depends on the gift. I would imagine that many gifts come with strings attached, where part of the gift is budget relief, but the bulk is additional (not replacement) spending.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 14, 2005 15:41:55 GMT -5
thinkprogress.org/2005/12/14/hannitys-hypocrisy/We've been attacked by Sean Hannity. Apparently promoting Muslim-Christian understanding is a synonym for hating America or something. Yes, Rudy did turn down his gift in 2001. And it was asinine then too.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 17, 2005 18:45:55 GMT -5
Ok, here's one to kick around: suppose someone donates $20 million, unrestricted, to the athletic department. Where do you put it to make the most impact, mindful that nothing gets built overnight? Choose one, two, or up to three categories. A 400M track on campus and a start on the JTII convention center and basketball arena.
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Post by joehoya07 on Dec 19, 2005 12:22:22 GMT -5
From one NYC Hoya to another, I think that Rudy did the right thing and that Georgetown has once again sold out. If the Prince wants to promote "Muslim-Christian understanding" he should focus on his own country, which promotes the very radical Islamism that we are currently fighting in the Middle East. To suggest that the United States did something to deserve the 9/11 atrocities is beyond outrageous. Jack DeGioia should rip up the prince's check just like Rudy did...but we know our fundraiser-in-chief has only one concern...
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Dec 19, 2005 12:37:37 GMT -5
Joe- What took you so long to get the conservative talking points memo? Hannity knew about this almost a week ago. This never would have happened if Karl Rove was still alive.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by EasyEd on Dec 19, 2005 12:42:55 GMT -5
Guess Karl Rove is responsible for everything now.
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Dec 19, 2005 12:50:34 GMT -5
Wow. I don't know where to begin. First, the Prince's statement coming on the heels of 9-11 was insensitive but it was not inaccurate, as nearly every informed commentator has said something similar. Of course, U.S. policy had something to do with 9-11. We're the world's only superpower and we project our power in ways that offend Bin Laden and his ilk. That doesn't mean we "deserved" to be attacked. The Prince never said we did. Second, the Prince is one of the most progressive voices in the Middle East. I don't see how turning our backs on positive forces in the region helps anything. (Does the President "sell out" whenever he lauds someone Alawi? Incidentally, the Prince is close friends with the Bushes.) Third, the money was not earned illegally and its use will be education and scholarly. Query whether, if those two criteria are met, we should ever care about the personal views of the donor. Your final knock on DeGioia is troubling for those of us who want a GU president to finally focus on finances (i.e., fundraising and endowment growth). This is the single most important issue with regard to GU's future -- as discuss ad naseum on this board. We need to be a little more ruthless in our financial dealings -- no more Mt. Vernon debacles!
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 19, 2005 13:13:21 GMT -5
hillopper pretty much covered this one. Rudy was a grandstanding jerk then and he remains one regardless of his undeserved gravitas.
Are our beliefs really so fragile that a center to promote understanding is a challenge to America? Mine aren't. Perhaps yours are.
The ties between the Bushes and the Saudis are legion and our special relationship there is not with the reformers or the democratizers, but the kleptocratic group that maintain the status quo. If you want to get upset about something, start there.
On a related note, people should see Syriana. It's quite good, if a bit confusing.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 19, 2005 13:30:42 GMT -5
I think something should be pointed out to those criticizing the University's acceptance of a $20M donation (never thought I'd see that day). Typcially there are few strings attached when it comes to academic donations. This is because any institution accepting such a check would be acting counter to the interests and goals of education, generally speaking, for such a donation would hinder the free flow of ideas.
So...GU does not have to use this check to start the Washington, DC Madrasah for Budding Islamic Terrorists Who Wish to Attack America's Capital. On the flip side, if GU thought The Prince's Endowed Professorship for Teaching American Students How To Strategically Bomb The Islamic World would be an asset to the University's Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding, they could probably do that too (as long as they've already got the entire $20M).
In regard to the "Rudy" incident, I think the Prince's comments were stupid. You don't donate $5M to a burn victim's center and say "Many of these accidents could have been avoided if people had kept fire extinguishers in their homes, had been driving more carefully, or hadn't fallen asleep with a cigarette burning." It's just poor taste. But I think the attempt to link these comments with the Prince's donation is stupid, too. The Prince did not release a similar statement in conjunction with this donation. If unpopular past public statements disqualify one from donating to GU, then that disqualifies a lot of alumni. Perhaps the Prince has decided those past statements were wrong, too, but if he has we'd never know because that's not "news."
Finally, the donation was made to the Center for Christian-Muslim Understanding. We may agree or disagree on whether this center and its goals are good things for GU (though I personally think it is great). Who do you expect to donate to such a center? COL alum Pat Buchanan? The Prince is exactly the kind of person who will donate to the Center -- he is a global citizen who believes there are inequities both in the West and in the Islamic World. The goal of the center is learning from each other, not deciding who is right.
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Post by joehoya07 on Dec 19, 2005 14:51:06 GMT -5
First of all, I haven't seen any "talking points" and I haven't heard anything Hannity has said about this. I didn't comment on this earlier because I haven't looked at the site in a while. I don't share the mentality of those who say that we must get Gtown's endowment up at all costs. Based on the prince's previous statements, he seems to believe that the U.S. is responsible for the "misunderstandings" between Islam and the West. No doubt some people on this board agree. But Georgetown should not be running a center that promotes these beliefs. Any Muslim can practice his religion to the fullest in America. Meanwhile, Christians are slaughtered in Muslim countries (just look at the Sudan). If a "Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding" is needed anywhere, it's in the prince's home country of Saudi Arabia, not at Georgetown.
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Dec 19, 2005 15:30:57 GMT -5
"Based on the prince's previous statements, he seems to believe that the U.S. is responsible for the 'misunderstandings' between Islam and the West." - What statements are you refering to? The only one I'm familiar with indicated that U.S. policy toward Israel contributed to Arab hatred of the U.S. Are you claiming that this is incorrect?
"But Georgetown should not be running a center that promotes these beliefs." - Is that what CMCU does? Really?
"If a 'Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding' is needed anywhere, it's in the prince's home country of Saudi Arabia, not at Georgetown." - This is like arguing that GU shouldn't have an American Studies program b/c we already understand America; instead its donors should contribute money to universities in countries that aren't America. BTW: The Prince HAS funded programs in American Studies in Arab universities. Would Saudi Arabia benefit from a CMCU? Sure. Does it benefit America? Sure. I don't see the problem. Shoud GU return every gift it recieves with a list of more worthy charities?
And are you seriously asserting that American Christians' understanding of Islam is at such a level that no further study or scholarship is needed?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Dec 19, 2005 16:20:40 GMT -5
I would feel a lot better about this donation if he were to also set up a $20M program in his own country to explore Christianity and ways to improve Saudi understanding of Christianity.
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Post by Google searcher on Dec 19, 2005 16:31:00 GMT -5
This took me about 30 seconds to find on google. It's taking me longer to get a screen name/password on hoyasaxa.com.
From Reuters:
"Prince Alwaleed told the Washington Post that he is also donating 15 million dollars to establish the first centres for American studies in the Middle East, in Beirut and Cairo. "
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SoCalHoya
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No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Dec 19, 2005 18:38:10 GMT -5
Anything to help the dialogue is much needed, in my opinion.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 19, 2005 19:01:57 GMT -5
First of all, I haven't seen any "talking points" and I haven't heard anything Hannity has said about this. I didn't comment on this earlier because I haven't looked at the site in a while. I don't share the mentality of those who say that we must get Gtown's endowment up at all costs. Based on the prince's previous statements, he seems to believe that the U.S. is responsible for the "misunderstandings" between Islam and the West. No doubt some people on this board agree. But Georgetown should not be running a center that promotes these beliefs. Any Muslim can practice his religion to the fullest in America. Meanwhile, Christians are slaughtered in Muslim countries (just look at the Sudan). If a "Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding" is needed anywhere, it's in the prince's home country of Saudi Arabia, not at Georgetown. I think that as a student maybe you should drop by the Center (it's in the ICC). I really don't think it promotes the belief "that the U.S. is responsible for the 'misunderstandings' between Islam and the West." I'd be curious to know why you think it does. Is this a widely held belief among current students? What the center does do, as part of the SFS, is strengthen the already strong curriculum there. The center also offers a certificate program, which I think is open to all students, which undoubtedly is a nice thing to have on one's resume in these times for anyone going into government, IR, etc. post-graduation. The center also does good things for the University as a whole by putting it at the front of this field of study. Finally, promoting interreligious dialogue was endorsed by John Paul II and continues to be endorsed by Benedict XVI. As for your comment re: "those who say that we must get Gtown's endowment up at all costs," this doesn't directly affect the endowment itself. And unless you want to contest the statement I made above -- that gifts to educational institutions almost never have strings attached re: what can/can't be taught at a particular school -- then it's difficult to imagine a gift to the endowment that would be widely protested. If the Prince wants to write another check for $20M, this time to the endowment, that's fine with me.
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Dec 19, 2005 20:55:00 GMT -5
AustinHoya -- Totally agree; one quibble -- the gift is endowed; like all endowed gifts to GU it will become part of the University endowment.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 19, 2005 21:10:15 GMT -5
An earlier post asked what $20 million could do for Athletics. While facilities are essential and endowments are great, both don't mean anything if people can't afford to even go there.
My senior year at Georgetown (1984) cost $7,100, and that was a big chunk of my family's finances. Twenty-two years later, what, $45,000? A lot of kids, esp. athletes, simply look elsewhere with prices like this. For all the handwringing about how come PL schools can outrecruit and walk over Georgetown, do you want to be the parent stuck with up to a $180K commitment over four years vs. a free ride from a place like Lehigh or Holy Cross?
With that in mind, my fictional $20M would go as follows:
1. $1M for a discretionary fund where the department could use to recruit and retain top coaches. 2. $4M for the MSF--it may be as big a priority as basketball right now as it relates to strategic issues, and 3. $15M for a 15 year series of non-endowed annual scholarships, which equates to roughly 50 half-scholarships (approx $20K grants per year), 25 men and 25 women, spread out across the non-revenue and underfunded revenue sports. It'd be great to endow them all, but the needs are immediate. Award them for athletic and academic excellence, and the results will be visible almost from the start.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 19, 2005 21:40:57 GMT -5
AustinHoya -- Totally agree; one quibble -- the gift is endowed; like all endowed gifts to GU it will become part of the University endowment. I may be confused on how these things work. It's my impression that the $20M will be used specifically for the endowed scholarships and professorships. As such, I thought the $20M would be counted separately from GU's "general endowment," which is what I am asked to donate to when a "University representative" calls my house. What's the difference, if any? Seems like you're saying it all ends up in the same account, which seems more logical now that I think about it.
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