|
Post by Hoyabliu on Aug 18, 2005 21:53:13 GMT -5
Apparently the rankings were released today...but I found very few articles (w/o Gtown mentions) online. According to some sources, it looks like we've moved up 2 spots to 23rd this year. talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=89519 don't know how reliable this info is..
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Post by RBHoya on Aug 18, 2005 22:29:09 GMT -5
That's just a forum, I would wait for something more concrete...
I heard that the rankings would be released online either sometime this friday (tomorrow) or sometime next friday, so its entirely possible that something has leaked already. I googled it and searched google news for it earlier in the day and I didn't find anything except some stuff about public school rankings.
So in sum.... this could be legit, but I don't think they'll officially be released until tomorrow (or perhaps a week from tomorrow) so I'd reserve judgment until then.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Post by RBHoya on Aug 19, 2005 0:45:58 GMT -5
Ok, after flipping through that thread a while and waiting long enough, the official site with the rankings has turned up.... www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.phpWe are in fact at #23, tied with UVA. Not quite sure what to make of it. We're back up the charts a bit, I believe... We were tied at 25 with UCLA last year, if I'm not mistaken, meaning we've essentially swapped spots with Michigan, who I think was a couple spots ahead of us last year. While I'm happy to be moving back up the list, I can't help but think that there are some schools ahead of us that are inferior, at least in reputation... I guess it's tough to be objective though. I mean, places like Emory, Vandy, Notre Dame, CMU.... all very good schools to be sure, but I think Georgetown has at least as good, and probably better, an academic reputation, even if the countless statistics taken into account in this study (and I'm not wholly sure of the methodology) spit those schools out as higher ranked, due to alumni donation rate or whatever else..... I guess what I'm saying is, it doesn't matter how a list like this spits out rankings-- I know for dam sure that when I (eventually) take my GU diploma out into the world and try to get a job or when I tell people where I go to school or when I put the window sticker on my car or wear the sweatshirt.... I'm much prouder that it says "Georgetown University" than "Washington University in St. Louis", because people know and respect Georgetown, and most of them don't even know of WUStL.... at least that's how it is where I'm from, maybe in the midwest they'd tell ya different. As an aside... UPenn ahead of Stanford? Duke tied with Stanford and ahead of MIT and CIT? Like I said I don't know how exactly they come up with these, but that sure as heck doesn't seem right.
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Aug 19, 2005 7:37:04 GMT -5
I think the reason that GU has a better reputation than the schools you mention, at least with employers, RB, is that the kids who go to GU already tend to be slightly higher achievers. I haven't read this year's edition of the review, but in the past we've always placed very high in terms of selectivity, and a lot of employers use school names mainly as a proxy for the intelligence and motivation of job applicants, not necessarily for what they actually learned while in college. Let's face it, as an high-schieving applicant with a choice of almost any college, if given a choice, especially if you were interested in politics, art, or anything cultural, wouldn't you rather live in DC than South Bend or St. Louis?
What seems to hurt us are relatively low peer rankings, faculty rankings, and the size of our endowment. In part, this is probably a function of our lacking big science programs (often physically big), especially engineering. I think we tend to skew much more heavily toward liberal arts and especially pre-law and political studies than peer institutions, but in the last few years the rankings have added weight to the sciences.
I think the biggest problem, though, is our relatively small endowment, and I noticed on the US News Web page for us (at least what I could see without registering) that the size of the endowment is one of the first things listed for each school. Which brings me to my question for everyone:
I have spoken with people in the development office and have told them that I have found it very difficult to contribute to the endowment. It seems like all fundraising drives target the annual fund, which obviously is important, but for something like the US News rankings, as well as the long-term future of GU, the endowment is much more critical. Has anyone else found it hard to determine how to contribute to the endowment? Any ideas how that could be made easier? Am I just confused?
|
|
|
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Aug 19, 2005 8:29:26 GMT -5
In general, gifts of up to $10K are targeted toward the annual fund, while gifts of $1M+ are directed toward endowment (or capital projects) funding. (Amounts in the middle depend, I think).
Without knowing the size of your gift, in general smaller gifts make a bigger difference contributing to Annual Fund, which goes into the operating budgets of specific programs or new projects. The way that endowment funds work is that 3-5% of the amount in an endowment is available in any given year.
So for my $100 annual donation, it makes more sense for GU to use the full hundred dollars on a program that is working to improve Georgetown in the current time, than to generate four useable dollars, and increase the endowment by .0000014%.
In sum, Georgetown needs to do a better job of both small-dollar annual fundraising, and major gift funding (for both capital projects, including athletic facilities, and endowment). I think that the new Vice President for OAUR will be good in improving the approach, as he brings a proven track record.
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Aug 19, 2005 8:35:20 GMT -5
Thanks True Blue. Any idea if there is a way for people to pool donations and direct them to the endowment?
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Aug 19, 2005 8:40:32 GMT -5
FsoHoya: TrueHoyaBlue is absolutely correct with explaining why GU (and all Universities, by the way) conduct fundraising the way they do. For your peace of mind, here's another way to look at it: you are making a donation to the endowment when you give to the Annual Fund. Every dollar given to the A.F. is able to be spent immediately by the University. The vast majority of those funds are for essential items--not "extras" that wouldn't be paid for if the money wasn't there. Therefore, every dollar spent from Annual donations is a dollar that doesn't have to be spent out of the endowment, allowing it (hopefully) to compound and grow.
On a related note, sometimes we need to give credit where credit is due: while Georgetown does need to improve its annual fundraising, the participation rate has increased about 10% over the past ten years--a terrific increase by industry standards.
|
|
|
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Aug 19, 2005 8:42:38 GMT -5
Not sure, but you could always contact giving@georgetown.edu.
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Aug 19, 2005 8:50:43 GMT -5
I don't mean to knock the fundraising job. I think it is important for all alums to remember that compared to Harvard, Princeton, and many other schools on the list, we are newcomers to being a "national university," and that is reflected in our endowment. I suppose I'd just like to see the school put out a little more clear, easily accessible information to alums about giving not just to the annual fund but also the endowment, if for no other reason than so when grads donate they can understand where their money could best be sent and why.
|
|
|
Post by Hoya98 on Aug 19, 2005 10:47:39 GMT -5
I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw we were still in the Top 25. I know it doesn't "really" matter, but it matters to me. What can we, as individuals (with limited incomes), do to see the ranking continue to improve? Suggestions?
|
|
|
Post by hilltopper2000 on Aug 19, 2005 10:50:48 GMT -5
I'd never heard of the "college confidential" website so after Hoyabliu posted the link I browsed a little and stumbled on this thread: talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=85415Anybody else find this somewhat depressing? I know when I was at GU (in the 1990s) there was a certain amount of "Ivy-envy" but I think the vase majority of us were quite grateful to be there and had turned down U.S. News favs like Penn and Duke to attend. For those who are currently students, do you sense a real insecurity within the student body regarding GU's standing in the rankings and general name recognition (which I've always thought was incredibly good)?
|
|
nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
|
Post by nychoya3 on Aug 19, 2005 10:51:50 GMT -5
Play the lottery and hope?
Putting the University on better financial footing is going to be a long, hard climb, but the admin seems determined and clear eyed as to what's needed.
|
|
Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,578
|
Post by Gold Hoya on Aug 19, 2005 11:07:11 GMT -5
I'm much prouder that it says "Georgetown University" than "Washington University in St. Louis", because people know and respect Georgetown, and most of them don't even know of WUStL.... at least that's how it is where I'm from, maybe in the midwest they'd tell ya different. my sister went to wustl and in Chicago, it's about 50/50 in what people consider more impressive, with the caveat that Catholic people are just about always more impressed by Georgetown and Jewish people are just about always more impressed by wustl. (We're Jewish but I am around Catholic people way more). It's pretty clear that Wustl is strong in (US News methodology) areas in which Georgetown is weak: they have a respected engineering school, their alumni giving rate is much higher, and their endowment is strong (and we should keep in mind they're also relatively new on the "national" scene).
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on Aug 19, 2005 11:27:42 GMT -5
From what I've found at school, there isn't as much ivy envy as everyone says. I know one kid who transfered to Columbia, but everyone else pretty much dismissed (pretty prejoratively) that as "he wanted to go to an ivy". You can see this in all the responses from current students in that thread--everyone pretty much forgets their ivy envy once they become a part of the Georgetown community.
Though I do have to ask-what is this person talking about? I've never heard this cheer. Ever.
|
|
nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
|
Post by nychoya3 on Aug 19, 2005 11:34:25 GMT -5
I transfered from an Ivy (Cornell), if that makes you feel better.
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Aug 19, 2005 11:34:38 GMT -5
If you want to know students' preferences based on where they are accepted and where they actually choose to go, the link below shows a ranking of schools based on students "revealed preferences." It is the final ranking from a study done by Harvard economist Caroline Hoxby: talk.collegeconfidential.com/archive/index.php/t-626.htmlAs you can see, we do a little better in this than in US News.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Post by RBHoya on Aug 19, 2005 11:51:59 GMT -5
Though I do have to ask-what is this person talking about? I've never heard this cheer. Ever. I guess maybe he/she misinterpreted the "We are"... "Georgetown!" chant, or maybe forgot how it went in the offseason. At least he/she is trying and hyping the Duke game. I also don't think there is a lot of ivy envy. There's a little bit, but it's mostly from those few poor people who are overly concerned about reputation and people's perception of them and whatnot--the same type of people who view stuff like the US News list as Gospel. It's a minority POV. Most people consider Georgetown to be one of the top schools in America, and rightfully so. The SFS, I would say, is held in particularly high regard.
|
|
|
Post by fsohoya on Aug 19, 2005 12:20:59 GMT -5
I would actually guess we are just as good as almost any school above us in anything related to law/government/foreign relations. I think our problem in these rankings is the bredth of what we offer, primarily a lack of top flight science programs (though I suspect we are well regarded for pre-med). That, and as well all know, relatively modest financial means.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,737
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 19, 2005 13:55:37 GMT -5
To make you feel better as well, I turned down Wharton to go to GU.
|
|
|
Post by hilltopper2000 on Aug 19, 2005 14:58:47 GMT -5
My concern is not really that students are turning down Cornell or Wharton to go to GU. I'm sure that still happens (based on what I've read in Jack's postings). I worry about the loyalty towards and respect for the alma mater graduates will have if a culture of Ivy-envy spreads. That could translate into the financial support they are willing to give GU down the road. If you don't think much of the school you attended (or think you could have done better), you are less likely to give back, I think. People are more willing to philanthropically invest in successful institutions. Anyway it is good to hear from current students that my fears are unfounded.
|
|