What's our program's goal?

[98hoya]

This difficult football season, and the thoughtful posts of so many on this board, have made me really think about what I want for this program. I'm curious as to how others feel about where they want the program to be.

Personally, my hope for the program is that it becomes part of the fabric of the university and serves as a rallying point for students and alumni on Saturdays in the fall. What I mean by that will be understood by those who have been to a football game at places like Harvard, Yale, Brown, Army, Navy, Lehigh or Holy Cross. At those places, the football game is a centerpiece for a community event, with old timers coming back to re-live past days and students having a good time with their buddies. I'd like to see tailgate parties, parents bringing kids, kids from the dorm cheering for the guys on the team from their floor. Not to get too deep, but the game itself becomes transcendent at those places, because it's not just about the game, it's about what the game represents: the unique college experience. I want that for us at our home games.

We'll never be Florida State, and of that I'm glad. Basketball is our big time sport, and a program I'm pleased to support for totally different reasons. With basketball, it's like we sponsor our own professionals living right on campus serving their NBA-minor league stint. But football is a sport that real students who will go on to get real jobs play and who, with the proper support, should be playing a game that has the ability to create community in a way that basketball just doesn't seem to. I want tailgates and beers and cool weather with a crowd full of people who are excited to be there for many reasons, the game being one of them. Winning will help with that, but winning is secondary to me to the goal of making home football games a "happening."

I don't know, maybe I'm totally full of it, but that's my take on where I want the program to be: wins are good, but they are a means to an end of promoting a positive experience for those in attendance.

Is that you guys conceptualize the program's goals? If so, what can we do to help accomplish it?

[theexorcist]

"wins are good, but they are a means to an end of promoting a positive experience for those in attendance."

Sorry, I don't mean any disrespect, but this is lame. Positive experiences can be gained with Jack the Bulldog bobblehead giveaways.

I'll back up. Before I transferred to Georgetown, I went to Delaware. Last weekend, I went to watch Delaware beat Navy at Navy.

Delaware isn't going to beat Texas or win the BCS Championship. But Delaware CAN compete for the I-AA national championship and occasionally take down a middling I-A program that is, with the grace of God, going to stick it to Notre Dame this Saturday.

Georgetown can't aim that high. I want them to occasionally compete for the Patriot League championship and be competitive with the Ivy schools.

If that happens, then the next part will develop naturally - people will enjoy coming to games, and a mini-tailgate culture will evolve. This is not currently the case.

[98hoya]

I don't take any disrespect from it, so don't sweat it. I'm not suggesting I want to go 0-fer season every year in the name of fun. No doubt, it'd be fun to see the team compete for the P.L. title sometimes, but even doing that, well, ain't that meaningful in the big scheme of things (or even the big scheme of college football). In terms of actual competitiveness of the team, I think we might be in agreement about where we want to be: sometimes competing for the P.L. title, playing good ball against the Ivies. What makes me sick is when the team is a laughing-stock, as they've been 4 separate times this season. That shouldn't happen.

[Cambridge]

I want a program that...

1) consistently gives us close games against the Harvards, Yales, Columbias and Browns of the world. I don't need to beat Texas or Oklahoma, but I do NEED to destroy Cornell.
2) Draws students in to the game environment win or lose, where they feel excited and fired up to cheer for the Hoyas. Obviously, this will be largely dependent on a new stadium, but when I was a student (98-02) we would at least tailgate before most games in the parking lot (long gone)...even if everyone didn't make it over to the "stadium." What we need is the University and ALL groups on campus -- Hoya Blue, the Hoya, GUGS, etc -- to make a concerted, large scale effort to support the team each and every week they are at home.
3) I can at least listen to on the radio. While I'm moving back to the east coast next year (NY) and will be in DC a lot more, I want to be able to track the team via some means other than this website (no offense) or just a blip on the ESPN ticker.

[theexorcist]

I'll also say that I went to games the past two years. Each time, the game was painful to watch, with little enjoyment or excitement. Georgetown showed little offensive imagination, and usually seemed to be doing its best on defense to stave off the inevitable.

It's why I feel that a significant part of the problem is the team's lack of competitiveness. You can't have a squad that's consistently noncompetitive when you're trying to build a game day atmosphere.

[RusskyHoya]

Let me just say off the bat that you can probably forget about the image of a tailgate that you have in mind. So long as the drinking age is 21 and the university is on its anti-alcohol kick, the Homecoming boozeapolooza is all you're going to get as far as on-campus tailgating is concerned. They might let the Gridiron Club do something in the McDonough parking lot, safely away from the student body, but you're not going to get The Grove in Oxford, MS, or even the parking lot of Continental Airlines Arena in East Rutherford, NJ before the UNC game last year. They don't want that.

On the other hand, they're happy to let the Cornell Club of D.C. rent out the top floor of Leo's for OUR homecoming, then pitch a nice big red tent outside of Leo's and drink there (I thought you couldn't have open containers on campus? Woops). So that I have to listen to drunk Cornell alums yelling at me to "Get the fu*& out of here" on my own Gdamn campus.

Yes, I'm still Editeded about that, and I think its a perfect illustration of the general message: What I want is for Georgetown to care about football. The administration, the students, the alumni, the community, the District. Because right now, very few people care.

Oh, and I was told that Chris Murphy, who is listed as the president of the Gridiron Club, is currently stationed in Europe. I don't have independent confirmation of that, but he never returned any of my e-mails, so I can see that being the case. If so...

[hoyaparents]

Yes, Chris is currently stationed in London. It is my understanding that a new president of the Gridiron Club will be in placed shortly.

[tal1286]

just win, baby.

everything else will follow. As it stands I am pretty sure that I speak for the majority of students when saying football games are not fun and not something to schedule your life around like we do with basketball.

On edit: Not especially fun. And, to be sure, I do find this unfortunate.

[The Stig]

Some random thoughts about what I'd like to see for Georgetown football.

1. A legitimate shot at winning most weekends. Losses are a part of the game, but it's upsetting to know after the first quarter of every game that your team doesn't have a chance. If the team loses after a tough, close fight the people in the stands will probably be back to see them next weekend. But not many fans are going to stick around to see an inevitable blowout.

2. Make the football stadium the place to be during games. Right now games are almost seen as an annoyance - they're loud, they're right in the middle of campus, and most of the student body has no interest in them whatsoever. When I was picking my room last year several people told me to avoid picking rooms that look out on the football field, since they wake you up too early on game days. That's not a good sign. The field-view dorms should be the hottest properties on campus. The football stadium should be the place that all the students want to be during games. But they'll only want to be there if it's a fun place to be, and you can't do that with the product we currently have on the field.

3. Better atmosphere at games. Right now there's Hoya Blue going nuts up front, some enthusiastic parents.... and that's it. The student section should be full of screaming students. Georgetown students can be great fans - we see that at basketball games. But they have nothing to cheer for on the football field.

4. The football team should be a source of pride for the students. Right now they're widely seen as an embarassment to the school. Mention "Georgetown football" to most Georgeown students and you'll get a mix of rolled eyes, sarcastic laughs, and cringes. Students are proud to wear Georgetown Basketball shirts around campus, but anybody who wears something that says Georgetown Football gets mocked.

5. Make games less painful to watch. As a Hoya Blue member I feel I ought to be at every home game, and as a good fan I always have to stay to the end. For most football games that feels more like a burden than a pleasure. Watching the team constantly throw away chances and get cut apart by opponents is painful. In some ways you feel like an idiot for cheering for such a hopeless cause. That's why pretty much the entire non-Hoya Blue student body stays away from football games - there's not much for Georgetown fans to cheer for and a lot to cringe at.

6. Bridge generations. Georgetown football games should draw alumni in from around the area and students on campus to the same place - the football stadium. Football ought to be the best sport for bringing alumni back to campus - basketball only gets them as far as the Phone Booth.

7. Make Hoya Blue's job easier. The folks in Hoya Blue bust their tails to promote football games. Their efforts pay off big time for the first home game - there's always a good crowd of students in the stands - mostly freshmen. But once those first-timers drift off pretty quickly once they realize they don't have anything to cheer for, and try as they might Hoya Blue can never draw them back. The key is to give first-time student fans something to cheer for in their first Georgetown football game. That's how you get a fanbase. Hoya Blue can only do so much to sell the team - eventually they have to sell themselves.

We're not asking for championships here. We're just asking for competetiveness. If student and alumni fans have something to cheer for at Georgetown football games they'll come back, and football will become the positive campus presence we all want it to be.

[TBird41]

thestig said:

7. Make Hoya Blue's job easier. The folks in Hoya Blue bust their tails to promote football games. Their efforts pay off big time for the first home game - there's always a good crowd of students in the stands - mostly freshmen. But once those first-timers drift off pretty quickly once they realize they don't have anything to cheer for, and try as they might Hoya Blue can never draw them back. The key is to give first-time student fans something to cheer for in their first Georgetown football game. That's how you get a fanbase. Hoya Blue can only do so much to sell the team - eventually they have to sell themselves.

We're not asking for championships here. We're just asking for competetiveness. If student and alumni fans have something to cheer for at Georgetown football games they'll come back, and football will become the positive campus presence we all want it to be.

While tabling during freshman move in two years ago:

"what should we tell them about football games?"

"Lie to them and tell them they're good and everyone goes"

[98hoya]

tal1286 said:

just win, baby.

everything else will follow. As it stands I am pretty sure that I speak for the majority of students when saying football games are not fun and not something to schedule your life around like we do with basketball.

On edit: Not especially fun. And, to be sure, I do find this unfortunate.

I don't think it's just winning will do it, Tal (although I do like the Al Davis reference).

I remember when the team was very good from about 1996-99 (7-3, 8-3, 9-2, 9-2) and students still had zero interest in going to games and the football team was simply not respected by the student body as a whole...Granted, in the interim we've moved from the MAAC to the P.L. so there are more opponents from schools students have actually heard of, but I don't think that makes a big difference in terms of campus enthusiasm. We also moved from Kehoe to the lower fields, which is good (Kehoe was, perhaps, the only 1-AA venue I can think of that was less appealing than the MSF in its current form). However, even taking out those two changes, I still suspect student support would not be so hot if we were an over-500 team every year.

It's got to be more than just winning...I love what Hoya Blue is doing. Perhaps their efforts, coupled with some wins and a stadium would do it. Or maybe trying to bring tailgating back is the variable we're missing. Ideas?

[theexorcist]

1996-98 (the three years I was there) is a bad comparison. Kehoe is an AWFUL place to watch a game - the light poles blocked almost every view. And there was little spirit directed at football. The fact that we were playing St. Peter's rather than Lafayette really didn't matter - it was just a lousy place.

Georgetown getting hided almost every week is not a fair situation for Hoya Blue. Making the team respectable, having them in a legit stadium with student support will give a "football culture" a chance to develop.

Yeah, GU is a basketball school. But it's possible for football games to be well-attended and enjoyable.

[bceagle]

Posting contributions and speaking about what the program's goals should be are all admirable, but the bottomline is that the school needs a focused and targeted athletic development team that can get alumni or parent's of alumni the opportunity to make sizable endowments to specific capital improvements. If you read this post, you should be thinking seriously about people you know that are associated with the school or want to be associated with the school that are in the financial position to establish a sizeable endowment to the football program..You would be surprised how generous people are if you just ask. Money talks and will allow you to reach these goals..trust me I know.. so look in your roledex(or blackberry) and start making calls. A high school senior does not want to play in a MSF.. they want to play in a football stadium...It's not that hard to make this a reality. It requires some focused fundraising to the right people.

[bubbrubbhoya]

bceagle said:

Posting contributions and speaking about what the program's goals should be are all admirable, but the bottomline is that the school needs a focused and targeted athletic development team that can get alumni or parent's of alumni the opportunity to make sizable endowments to specific capital improvements. If you read this post, you should be thinking seriously about people you know that are associated with the school or want to be associated with the school that are in the financial position to establish a sizeable endowment to the football program..You would be surprised how generous people are if you just ask. Money talks and will allow you to reach these goals..trust me I know.. so look in your roledex(or blackberry) and start making calls. A high school senior does not want to play in a MSF.. they want to play in a football stadium...It's not that hard to make this a reality. It requires some focused fundraising to the right people.

Uggh. Also, this board isn't a direct line to the fundraisers at the AD, although you seem to treat it that way.

Edited. No need to run down the poster based on a handle which may nor may not be from another school.-Admin

[hoyaparents]

Dear Bubbrubbhoya,

Shame, Shame, Shame.

There are some of us that are really making a effort to make this program work.

Under the rules, as I understand them, you should be thrown off this board.

[bubbrubbhoya]

Give me a break, admin and parents!

This guy is coming in (from a BC perspective) with no understanding of Georgetown's circumstances. Does he really think that a I-AA team, and a historically unsuccessful one at that, should be trying to build a bowl in the middle of campus? Does he have any clue what DC zoning regulations are like? Does he really think Georgetown's fundraising staff isn't working overtime to get money for this stadium (even if they could do a (much) better job at it)?

The answer to all of these questions is no. Whether or not he/she does/did attend that other Jesuit school that has betrayed its commitments to conference and Catholic brethren, this poster's post is as patronizing as it is ignorant, and I'm not just saying that out of a desire to slander, but I'm basing that in fact (see above).

ON EDIT: This edit began before hoyaparents' response below, so it is not prompted by that. Instead of calling out hoyaparents and Admin in the thread (potentially derailing it), which is probably merited, I'm putting my responses in PM. All I can say is that both of these posters are being a little holier-than-thou in their reactions, and that these reactions mask legitimate criticism. Oh well. And back to the orginal post:

Oh, and my thoughts on the program's goal:

Let the young team take its licks this year and next, and then see it start winning, because it will. As the basketball team showed, with wins come recruits, and the funds will follow after that.

Was that appropriate enough for you, hoyaparents?

[98hoya]

bceagle said:

You would be surprised how generous people are if you just ask.

I'm now asking you: BCEagle, will you please donate to support and improve this program?

[hoyaparents]

bubbrubbhoya,

Calling someone derogatory names is borish and childlike. I doubt that you would have said that face to face.

With respect to your response, a rant, at best.

[DFW HOYA]

This thread is about goals and reaching up, not what Georgetown "can't" do.

So let's talk some goals. How about any of these?

1. This program will aim to be a consistent (top three) contender for the conference championship and, when selected, to advance in the NCAA playoffs.

2. This program will have a completed home field within three years.

3. This program will aim to provide its student-athletes with the best possible experience on and off the field, including the securing of a dedicated practice field off campus.

4. This program will reach a competitive level within five years where it is able to compete in select non-conference games with academic peers who play at the highest level of I-AA, including Villanova, Richmond, William & Mary, and others.

4. This program will reach a competitive level within eight years where it is able to schedule itself as an underdog in select non-conference games I-A teams such as the academies, Duke, Northwestern, etc.

5. In conjunction with #3 or 4 above, the program will seek one neutral site or downtown DC game a year against a "name" opponent at a stadium of 25,000 seats or more.

6. The program will secure 1,000 Gridiron club donors and $1 million in annual fundraising within five years.

7. The program will have a consistent local presence on radio and MASN.

8. The program will attempt to sell out MSF seats in advance each season with a coordinated marketing campaign.

9. The prpgram will leverage the Georgetown brand to recruit national talent as well as DC talent who have heretofore ignored Georgetown as an option.

10. This program will strive for excellence in all that it does.

Well, that's fairly audacious, right? After all, this is a team facing Marist this weekend, with a friends and family crowd expected next week at an unfinished athletic field while the rest of the campus is at Verizon Center. It was down 28-0 to Penn, so how could it ever stay with Villanova or Northwestern?

The point is that with goals, you get direction--it's too easy in the absence of defined goals to sit back and say that things can't happen. Georetown can't stay with Villanova in 2007. But would you rather play Villanova or Marist five years from now?

In some ways, the soft bigotry of low expectations holds back this team and other PL and Ivy schools from their place in the NCAA football firmament. It was writer Frank Deford who said it well: "I've always believed that it's patronizing for the Ivy League to say we're looking for excellence, while we cede that excellence in basketball and football. It's almost irresponsible. They can posture all they want, but it is a failure to recognize the marketplace. The Ivy League should stand for excellence in all areas, and academics aren't the only measure of excellence."

So why not make excellence in football a goal all its own, top to bottom? A school like Stanford competes against the very best with some of the very best students out there. Yes they are 3-5 this year, and Rose Bowl bids come but once a generation. But this is the same team that beat USC, and few Stanford students and alumni will soon forget it.

Instead, the Patriot League somehow portrays Georgetown as the Duke of the PL, a team who won't get out of the 2 and 3 win rut, no matter what they do. And through no fault of its own, I think the GU fan base has bought into it.

Duke can do better. And so can Georgetown.

[The Stig]

DFW: I can see where you're coming from. But, as you concede those seem very unrealisitc at the present time. Setting high standards is admirable, but when you set them too high people tend to look at them, say they're too tough, and give up before they start. That's not the way it should be, but it is the way it is.

That's why I think we should focus on the more realistic near-term goals. Make football into a positive element of campus life. Give the fans who turn out for the first game a reason to come back. Get a team that at least puts in a competetive showing every weekend. No more horribly lopsided scores (unless it's us on top!).

Those goals can be achieved, and they can can be achieved in a relatively short timeframe. Once that's done, then we can start focusing on the more long-term goals that you mentioned, which will suddenly look a lot more realisitc.

You can't jump from last place to first place in one go. But you can go from last to the midfield, and you can go from the midfield to the lead.