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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 29, 2004 14:46:35 GMT -5
Reed made some nice passes last night in the NS game and outside of one out of control drive, he might be the guy who can help us penetrate against a zone.
Whether or not he should be a BE player is irrelevant because he is and we need all the players to contribute this year. Let's stop bashing what we've got and let these guys improve.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Dec 29, 2004 15:15:13 GMT -5
As a rookie respondent I feel a bit unsure whether to join the fray regarding Ray Reed. Especially considering that I have yet to see him play! But as a longtime Hoya observer, I'd like to put my two cents in on the side of being cautious in reaching hard and fast conclusions regarding the potential contribution of a player who's early in his sophomore year and has only been on the court the equivalent of one season.
While I'm by no means making a direct comparison between the two, and I certainly don't anticipate Ray approaching his level of achievement in the Big East, this discussion brings a past Hoya great to mind -- one Charles Smith.
Smitty was not well regarded, nor highly recruited coming out of DC's St. Anthony's. His first couple of seasons as a Hoya he was a skinny, awkward looking defensive sub, who rarely made any kind of offensive impact. Obviously that all changed by his senior year.
Again, I'm not comparing them, but it seems to me if JTIII is playing the kid, he has enough insight to determine whether Ray can contribute within the context of what he's trying to do and, hopefully, improve over time.
I'm not a basketball coach, but if I were I certainly wouldn't be playing kids who I thought made a negative impact on my teams ability to win. Let's cut Ray (and Coach) some slack....
Now y'all be gentle on this rookie ('specially Hoyainspirit)!
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 29, 2004 15:27:14 GMT -5
Welcome to the fray, and thanks for the perspective!
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 29, 2004 16:48:02 GMT -5
I started this post with the hopes that those who claimed that Ray Reed wasn't a Big East player would see the error in their ways and take a wait and see approach. The kid has played all of one big east season on a team that had no inside threat and apparently no offensive strategy. How many of you would be surprised to see that Ray Reed was one of only 2 players whose shooting percentage didn't go down in BE play last year. Granted, it was a terrible 35% but he was clearly more of a BE player than the worshipped Matt Causey who shot 19% in BE play last year. His A/TO ratio was bad last year but he also wasn't asked to play the traditional PG role and so far this year the ratio has turned completely around. His current 33% fg pct included an 0 for 9 stretch to start the season where even III admitted that he was trying too hard coming off the injury and just needed some time to adjust. In his last 5 games, he's shot 50% overall, 40% from 3, 100% from the line had 14 assists to 6 turnovers and collected 6 steals. This coming from a sophomore backup guard who is just learning how to truely play the position this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see him continue to get these minutes as the season progresses and make some of you eat your words.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 29, 2004 17:14:00 GMT -5
In his last 5 games, he's shot 50% overall, 40% from 3, 100% from the line had 14 assists to 6 turnovers and collected 6 steals. This coming from a sophomore backup guard who is just learning how to truely play the position this year. Hoyaplaya, I think that is the key point. "In the last 5 games" Ray is clearly making a lot of progress. Using his "career" stats as a basis to judge is pointless. SFHoya's more analytic approach based on stats from the current season is more meaningful. It is apparent that JT3 has seen some really good things from Ray and has been disappointed in Ross, so Ray has become the first option off the bench. And he has been contributing. He also is not afraid to drive and knows how to dish when he gets there. Is he a BE player??? He certainly has the physical gifts of a BE player, and he is on a positive trajectory in terms of his development. If we manage to recruit one or two guys who are even better... good for us. Meanwhile, I - for one - am very glad he is on the team. I expect him to continue to improve. And I would encourage all Hoya fans to be supportive of Ray and all of our Hoyas.
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Post by uweblabisgod on Dec 29, 2004 18:18:44 GMT -5
"Mark Macon is the next Oscar Robertson" - Dick Vitale
"Ray Reed can't play" - some guy
Who do you believe?
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,209
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 29, 2004 18:43:26 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand the point of that post, but it certainly made me chuckle. Is the point to establish that "some guy" can be as out to lunch in his assessments of players as Dukie V.? Or to show that "some guy" is more astute in his analysis than Dukie V., and therefore should be doing commentary on nationally televised broadcasts? Or something else? Help!
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2004 19:01:03 GMT -5
Dick Vitale has gotten it wrong on so many players its not even funny. Joey Beard was to be the next Grant Hill, perhaps better. Cherokee Parks, according to Vitale, was destined to be a "special" player. And anyone remember how repeatedly he said that Jason Williams (Duke), while only a college sophmore, was at worst the third best point guard in the nation, college and NBA included. Vitale could only come up with Jason Kidd as being better which led to his colleague Brent Musburger, who brought into Vitale's thinking, to respond that Kidd didn't have the jump shot that Williams had.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
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Post by hoyainspirit on Dec 30, 2004 10:04:26 GMT -5
As a rookie respondent I feel a bit unsure whether to join the fray regarding Ray Reed. Especially considering that I have yet to see him play! But as a longtime Hoya observer, I'd like to put my two cents in on the side of being cautious in reaching hard and fast conclusions regarding the potential contribution of a player who's early in his sophomore year and has only been on the court the equivalent of one season. While I'm by no means making a direct comparison between the two, and I certainly don't anticipate Ray approaching his level of achievement in the Big East, this discussion brings a past Hoya great to mind -- one Charles Smith. Smitty was not well regarded, nor highly recruited coming out of DC's St. Anthony's. His first couple of seasons as a Hoya he was a skinny, awkward looking defensive sub, who rarely made any kind of offensive impact. Obviously that all changed by his senior year. Again, I'm not comparing them, but it seems to me if JTIII is playing the kid, he has enough insight to determine whether Ray can contribute within the context of what he's trying to do and, hopefully, improve over time. I'm not a basketball coach, but if I were I certainly wouldn't be playing kids who I thought made a negative impact on my teams ability to win. Let's cut Ray (and Coach) some slack.... Now y'all be gentle on this rookie ('specially Hoyainspirit)! It's about time you finally posted something, since I know you have been at least a lurker since long before the turn of the Century!!!... The Cap Center, the Mazda, a little Cognac... Those truly were the days!!
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FOTP
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,435
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Post by FOTP on Dec 30, 2004 11:51:19 GMT -5
All right...I can't take this anymore!
I'm sure Ray Reed is a nice kid and trying really hard. Let's look at facts here though. He wasn't recruited by anyone in his own back yard (that is way more telling than people realize). He got beat out by a walk-on this year. I've literally watched every game of his that I could over the past 1+ seasons and the naked eye can tell the truth.
Does he deserve to be in the rotation? yes. Unfortunately that's the state of our guard rotation at the moment.
HE was a last minute throw in recruit by Esherick to fill a scholarship position. Esh all but admitted that at the open practice two years ago.
I want Ray to do well...trust me...but we can't have blinders on the the reality of the situation.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on Dec 30, 2004 12:41:35 GMT -5
FOTP, what is your obsession with Ray Reed? Its like you have a vendetta against him. Are you a Matt Causey loyal fan or something? I mean what is with this obsession of insulting Ray and his skills. The kid has talent, and was recruited by other major Division I programs, and was one of the better players coming out of Southern California if you checked the facts instead of your wishes. Ease up man. Ray Reed is a Hoya and we should support him. JTIII is a good coach. I don't think Ray Reed would be getting the playing time that he is getting, particularly at PG, if he couldn't play. He is young and raw, and needs some coaching which JTIII can provide.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Dec 30, 2004 12:49:38 GMT -5
I believe it stems from someone starting a thread stating how good Ray Reed looks. A lot of us who go to games were like "Huh?" We don't mean to overly trash the guy but it's tough to watch him play and say that he's been a positive contributor.
FOTP didn't start a thread saying "Hey by the way, Ray Reed stinks"; he just responded to someone's box score observation that his numbers were up.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Dec 30, 2004 12:55:08 GMT -5
Actually I think he has been a better contributor than last year. Like I said before, I think he is raw, and needs coaching. But post after post about how Ray Reed doesn't do this, and Ray Reed doesn't do that, is definitetly not "positive" and a little obsessive.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 30, 2004 13:02:05 GMT -5
I believe it stems from someone starting a thread stating how good Ray Reed looks. A lot of us who go to games were like "Huh?" We don't mean to overly trash the guy but it's tough to watch him play and say that he's been a positive contributor. FOTP didn't start a thread saying "Hey by the way, Ray Reed stinks"; he just responded to someone's box score observation that his numbers were up. That's BS, he was one of a number of posters bashing Ray Reed a couple of weeks ago before this thread even started, even though we all knew that Reed was injured for just about all of the preseason. As soon as something positive is posted about Reed, he is the first to jump in and start bashing the kid. He wants to look at the facts and that's what I and others are trying to get him to do. The kid is only a sophomore, is super quick, is obviously receiving some better coaching this year and his play has started to have a positive impact on the team. I could care less if he watched all of Reed's games since he turned 8 years old, I'm going to trust JT III's comments and his improved play as of late as an indicator of whether he is BE talent or not. Right now, he's playing well and I hope that means that he is going to continue to improve. It may be that this is as good as he is capable of playing but I'm not ready to say that given that he's still got 3 full BE seasons left with JT III coaching him up.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Dec 30, 2004 13:06:35 GMT -5
I think we just have a fundamental disagreement on whether "he's playing well".
But hey, I hope he gets better.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 30, 2004 13:27:48 GMT -5
I think we just have a fundamental disagreement on whether "he's playing well". But hey, I hope he gets better. Here are the stats for the last 5 games: 50% overall, 40% from 3, 100% from the line had 14 assists to 6 turnovers and collected 6 steals. His best game coming against Clemson. I'm not saying that he is going to be an all-time great, but there is no reason for anyone to be so negative about a sophomore point guard who has played well recently. I guess my definition of well is to low. I guess he could have shot 65% overall, 50% from 3, 110% from the line and had 25 assists to 3 turnovers with 10 steals. I'm not sure that would satisfy the two of you either so let's just write him off as player that neither of you care for.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on Dec 30, 2004 20:03:29 GMT -5
If Ray Reed scored 30 points a game the rest of the season, FOTP and Fan of the Game would still have, eh, "fundamental" problems with his game. Its quite obvious there is an agenda going on here, but who cares anyway. Its not like they coached Division I basketball before.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,993
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Post by kghoya on Dec 30, 2004 22:34:46 GMT -5
If Ray Reed scored 30 points a game the rest of the season, FOTP and Fan of the Game would still have, eh, "fundamental" problems with his game. Its quite obvious there is an agenda going on here, but who cares anyway. Its not like they coached Division I basketball before. if anybody would know about agendas on this board, it would definetly have to be you buddy... do you need an agenda to see that guy cant play defense? i will admit that reed played well on offense tonight. threw some nice passes. i hope he continues this play b/c the hoyas will need it as the season goes on and the competition picks up defensively i hear how athletic reed is. well he was used and abused by a five foot point guard from howard. i have to assume that point guards in the big east are going to be a little bitter than #10 from howard. ps did you go to the game?
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ahoya3
Member
Former hoop club president and 22 year season ticket holder
Posts: 60
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Post by ahoya3 on Dec 31, 2004 0:11:36 GMT -5
Did you go to the game?? Reed played quite well against Howard's Ford who scored over 30 the last two times we played him. Tonight I don't think he got into double figures but don't have the stat sheet in front of me. Thanks to JTIII coaching I think Reid, who drove me nuts last year, is now one of the most improved players on the team.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,547
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 31, 2004 0:40:27 GMT -5
Reed played quite well against Howard's Ford who scored over 30 the last two times we played him. Tonight I don't think he got into double figures but don't have the stat sheet in front of me. Ford - only 9 points on 4-10 shooting with 3 turnovers
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