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Post by showcase on Nov 30, 2004 13:25:46 GMT -5
As if I didn't have enough reasons to hate ND, they go and axe a guy who was doing his best to right the ship. It was darned decent of them to give him three full years.  ND's Athletic Director must have had more respect for Davie as a recruiter than an x's and o's coach, since Willingham's apparent failure despite having to work with Davie's recruits wasn't an excuse. sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1935138 |
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Nov 30, 2004 14:18:41 GMT -5
As if I didn't have enough reasons to hate ND, they go and axe a guy who was doing his best to right the ship. It was darned decent of them to give him three full years. ND's Athletic Director must have had more respect for Davie as a recruiter than an x's and o's coach, since Willingham's apparent failure despite having to work with Davie's recruits wasn't an excuse.
Spoken like a true Notre Dame Hater. I seem to remember this board screaming for Esh's head, are you saying that he wasn't "doing his best to right the ship?" That is nuts. They all do their best. Willingham, while I respected him as a man and for his demeanor, was not a good coach. Notre Dame was consistently unprepared for games and made few if any adjustments during the game. As for working with Davie's recruits... He should have been thrilled to work with them, considering his last class was Notre Dame's worst in a decade. I applaud (assuming they have an actual plan, not some joke like last time, in place) the decisive actions of Kevin White.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2004 14:45:36 GMT -5
As if I didn't have enough reasons to hate ND, they go and axe a guy who was doing his best to right the ship. It was darned decent of them to give him three full years. ND's Athletic Director must have had more respect for Davie as a recruiter than an x's and o's coach, since Willingham's apparent failure despite having to work with Davie's recruits wasn't an excuse. sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1935138Willingham is a very good coach. I wonder if he is interested in a very low stress, I-AA job? ;D |
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 30, 2004 15:37:51 GMT -5
Yeah, he can come here and lose every game for the next 5 years and he wouldn't be fired, haha.
No, seriously, I disagree with this move. I think he should have had at least 1 more year. If he had failed again next season then I would have been alright with the decision, but I think 3 years is tough. I hope Ty dominates ND whenever he plays them at whatever school he lands at.
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LBPop
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Post by LBPop on Nov 30, 2004 15:45:14 GMT -5
I think Willingham's undoing was the instant success he had his first year. That was with mostly Davie's players and unfortunately since then he has regressed.
Related note: On the PL board there is a post that Lembo from Lehigh is being interviewed for the Stanford job. Wonder if the Cardinal would bring Ty back?
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Nov 30, 2004 16:16:46 GMT -5
One of the rallying cries that I have seen dealing with Ty at Notre Dame has been, "What has to be done eventually, should be done immediately." The merits of this statement in other contexts are questionable, but in this case I think it was the horrible inconsistency, the lack of any markeable progress. And, like I said earlier, poor in game decisions coupled with worsened recruiting efforts. Several top level recruits last year stated that they were interested in Notre Dame, but turned off by ND's lack of effort or interest in them. In any, case, good luck to Ty, I hope Stanford comes calling, and I hope Urban is packed for the Bend.
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Post by NY Hoya on Nov 30, 2004 18:34:14 GMT -5
Bob Davie didn't have 3 consecutive 31 point losses to SC; Bob Davie wasn't the first ND coach to have an opposing QB throw for 5 TDs (happened twice this year); Bob Davie didn't allow as many 20 point losses in three years as in the previous 40; Bob Davie had the luxury of following a great coach instead of following the awful Bob Davie.
I agree with FormerHoya in that Ty is a good man. I'd even say he's a decent coach, but decent doesn't cut it for Notre Dame football. The man had talent on his teams as evidenced by ND's performances against Michigan and Tennesee. However, he's kept an awful OC for three years despite the fact that the offense continues to be in the bottom third of 1A and despite the fact that he's had his own QB recruit, several decent WRs and a couple of great RBs. Davie's recruits aren't the reason ND has suffered, Ty's inability to make in-game adjustments and poor play calling are.
I wish him well and hope he finds another position soon. I have heard that Norm Chow is headed to Stanford, so it may not be there.
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Post by WesCoast on Nov 30, 2004 20:00:27 GMT -5
Recently Stanford released their head football coach for not winning games... with the players that he inherited from the previous head coach:
"Teevens finished with a 10-23 record in three seasons after taking over the program when Tyrone Willingham bolted for Notre Dame following the 2001 season"....
internet source.
It seems like recruiting good players is just as competitive and demanding as coaching...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 1, 2004 0:43:42 GMT -5
Notre Dame's True Colorswww.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23549-2004Nov30.html?nav=hcmoduleInteresting read. "And Notre Dame will hire a coach with the promise of returning the Irish to a preeminent place in college football. That's a place Notre Dame hasn't been in quite a while, and it's a place, given the school's shortsightedness, it won't be seeing anytime soon. "
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Dec 1, 2004 8:27:40 GMT -5
"They want to live in Pleasantville as long as possible, and Pleasantville, in case you didn't notice, doesn't include black coaches telling white boys how to block or tackle, which is why there are only two black head coaches in Division I-A. "
My second, or third I'm not certain I was so excited, thought was, "Let's hear Wilbon's rant about firing a black coach." Way to surprise me Michael. Also, the quote above is ridiculous.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 1, 2004 8:44:47 GMT -5
"They want to live in Pleasantville as long as possible, and Pleasantville, in case you didn't notice, doesn't include black coaches telling white boys how to block or tackle, which is why there are only two black head coaches in Division I-A. " My second, or third I'm not certain I was so excited, thought was, "Let's hear Wilbon's rant about firing a black coach." Way to surprise me Michael. Also, the quote above is ridiculous. I wasn't that surprised by Wilbon's slant on it either. Willingham was only 21-15 and 7-8 against ranked teams... Bob Davie got fired 1 year into a 5 year contract so I have a hard time seeing how skin color figured into this decision. I never thought ND was a good fit for Willingham in the first place. |
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Post by NY Hoya on Dec 1, 2004 9:10:55 GMT -5
Predictable Wilbon. I wonder if he isn't the one seeing the world through 1950s/60s glasses
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Post by showcase on Dec 1, 2004 10:43:03 GMT -5
Former Hoya - I may be a Domer Hater, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong on this one. Like Dubya, I have a mandate from the nation... proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?incomming=1&event_id=1024I didn't like Esh as a coach, but that was an opinion I formed only AFTER he had a chance to prove himself with his players. Willingham wasn't given that chance. You hire a coach, he should get four years, minimum, not shown the door because he inherited a program already in decline and couldn't stop the bleeding fast enough for the administration and alums. |
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Dec 1, 2004 11:05:16 GMT -5
I think possibly the biggest problem was that he had his best year with Davies' players. His recruiting was worse than Davies', and his in game decisions and adjustments were horrible or non-existent. I agree that it was strange to fire a guy after 3 years, but I applaud the University for not sticking with someone they believe wouldn't eventually get it done.
Hopefully the University will be proved right, as for now I'm just thrilled they chose not to accept mediocrity.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 9, 2004 16:01:02 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 16, 2004 10:09:27 GMT -5
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Post by showcase on Dec 16, 2004 14:33:12 GMT -5
Pablum for the true believers out there. Fr. Jenkins received calls expressing "concern" but wasn't "pressured." Okay, great.
I found the assertion that Willingham had an agent who "wouldn't accept a handshake deal" to be totally irrelevant. I have a feeling that ND wouldn't have accepted a handshake deal in this day and age either, regardless of what Fr. Ted was doing back in the day. It's a fine answer to those who were claiming that Willingham was denied some fabled "five year term" or something, but I think that's an answer to a bit of a strawman argument, since the issue wasn't that he didn't get five years, but that he didn't even get four (which would have at least allowed him to show what he could do with his own kids). Having the contractual authority to fire someone doesn't mean the exercise of that authority is right.
Finally, it's ridiculous to assert that Willingham's failure to deliver on all three prongs of ND's loft standards regarding academic success, integrity, and success on the field justified his firing. Does this mean that if Wise goes 4-7 next year, he gets the axe, too? After all, that would be worse than any year under Willingham. Or what if he puts up back to back losing seasons - should we expect Wise to be out on his keister in 2006?
Ultimately, all this distracts from the fact that Willingham received a program in serious decline, and despite an objectively up-and-down performance at head coach, was axed before he ever really got a chance to prove his mettle. ND's decision stunk, pure and simple, and has little to do with supposedly lofty expectations; you can put a dress on a pig and call it Shirley, but it's still a pig.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Dec 16, 2004 14:47:38 GMT -5
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Dec 16, 2004 15:12:05 GMT -5
I realized it may look like I wrote the above. Sorry, did not, got it from the crazies at NDnation.com
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Post by Hoya82VA on Dec 28, 2004 16:21:31 GMT -5
Showcase, how many Notre Dame football games did you watch beginning to end over the last three years?
I'll tell you how many I watched - ALL OF THEM. There was ample evidence that ND football went into a tailspin after the FSU game in Ty's first season (which by the way, was played with Bob Davie's players). Ty is a great role model but a mediocre football coach at best. How many teams punt from the opponent's 30 when they're up by 3 in the waning minutes of the 4th quarter? Ty did against BC. That's a BAD coaching decision. So are multiple too many men on the field penalties and ill-advised trick plays.
Notre Dame absolutely did the right thing - he had plenty of time to "prove his mettle" and didn't do it. If you watched the team closely over the last three years as I did, you know that they weren't going to get better over the next two years and were likely going to get worse. And Ty apparently wanted out too - he contacted Washington about that job the week of the USC game.
As a poster above says, those who think Ty got jobbed won't be convinced otherwise, but I think Notre Dame made the right decision here.
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ND's Athletic Director must have had more respect for Davie as a recruiter than an x's and o's coach, since Willingham's apparent failure despite having to work with Davie's recruits wasn't an excuse.
