chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Dec 16, 2007 22:37:31 GMT -5
Yeah, Memphis is by no means a bad defensive team. If anything, I think they're defense has been ahead of their offense this year. I can't wait for this game. The BE needs the win.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 16, 2007 22:41:52 GMT -5
I'd agree with the Memphis fan -- they are a very good to great defensive team and a good offensive team (but a mediocre to below average offensive team so far for a Top 5 team). They are a lot like Kansas, frankly.
Their defense is very disruptive on the perimeter -- so we need to watch turnovers -- and Dorsey is strong enough to push Roy around a bit. I don't expect him to shut Roy down, but he'll play him tougher than any has so far this year (which isn't saying much).
I'm not sure why Calipari thinks his offense is innovative, as Duke has been playing it for about twenty years, but whatever. Rose and Douglas Roberts can give us fits, but I think the game will be pretty ugly. Memphis' best bets on offense right now is to create offense from defense and hope they start hitting from outside. Otherwise they are relying on two talented players but relying on two players only is never a great idea.
That said, they will probably hit all their 3's and FT now.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 16, 2007 22:52:18 GMT -5
according to their posters they pretty much won't play zone at all, so I say pound it into roy early and often! We won't. Seriously when have we ever done that? Even when the Hoyas play creampuff teams that play man the Hoyas still didn't do it, not even when the Hoyas had less offensive talent than it does now. Plus it won't help that Roy will be a little too unselfish and keep kicking the ball back out. The other 30% of the time he will be setting screens. Gtown players will give it to Roy when they are in trouble ala William and Mary but pounding it in to him has never been a game plan. And if the guys are hitting their outside shots its even less likely. My main problem with this is that when Hibbs plays against talented big men with offensive talent he could pick up foul trouble guarding those guys instead of getting them in foul trouble first. But to get them in foul trouble he will need shot attempts and for whatever reason he often doesn't get enough of them. To the Memphis fan: Rose has been struggling from the outside all season so far. There are people on the most popular Memphis forum who actually think the team is better with Kemp on the floor instead of Rose. Of course any game any player or team can get hot but right now your team is full of players who can't make even uncontested jumpshots. Like some of Gary Williams' better Terp teams your offense gets a big boost from steals that lead to layups and slams. Take that away and your offense is downright atrocious. And as pointed out above calipari's schemes on offense do not impress. Why a collection of Chinese bball coaches are spending time with your squad trying to learn from its offense strategy remains a mystery. Of course I still think the Tigers are the savories for this game but there are huge, glaring flaws i your team right now...not the least of all is the free throw shooting. My personal recomendation for the Hoyas: play a lot of zone. I hate it when the Hoyas play zone because it seems like the other team only makes it outside shot when Gtown is in that defensive mode. But I think the Hoyas should risk it this time because memphis likes the one-on-one stuff and its weakness cleary is outside shooting. Plus after seeing the refs call everything when Radford players penetrated last night, I don't want the Hoyas to get put in such a situation again if there is another goup of horrible refs on the floor this Saturday. The Hoyas must Keep the turnovers low too. They don't want to give Memphis no more than eight to ten points on the break. Make Memphis earn its points.
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Post by chitowntiger on Dec 16, 2007 23:17:51 GMT -5
Our fans think we can get Hibbert to run up and down the floor until his tongue is dragging. I saw you guys against Bama and I'm not so sure about that. He seemed pretty fresh right til the end of the game to me. Please don't play us zone all day. I'm begging you.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 16, 2007 23:39:06 GMT -5
Our fans think we can get Hibbert to run up and down the floor until his tongue is dragging. Maybe. But you have to be able to run. Also there isn't any Memphis big men as offensively gifted as Hendrix of Alabama or even the kid Lee from Old Dominion. So our frontcourt could have the edge in terms of scoring. I think Calipari is a very smart coach who knows how to light a fire underneath his players. Still I have the feeling that Georgetown is not a big enough name again (not yet) for the players of Memphis to be too up for this game. Its not as if Duke or UNC is coming to town.
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Post by chitowntiger on Dec 16, 2007 23:50:22 GMT -5
This game is the second biggest game on our schedule. We're stoked about it. The only game that is bigger is UT because of the rivalry of course. We just hate them to no end. You will be the highest ranked team we face this year and we've been talking about it since it was put on the schedule. Trust me the fans and the players are very much looking forward to it.
I'm not crazy about the match-ups for us. Hibbert will be a real challenge and you are every bit as deep as we are. Different styles should make for an interesting game.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Dec 16, 2007 23:57:22 GMT -5
Everyone please excuse my post from earlier, upon reading it again it was absolutely ridiculous, but i wont change it so that i can be reminded not to post things like that again. You have to understand that i havent slept more than like 4 hours the past couple of days and im running on little substantial food but that is what i love about finals time.
i do though support one thing i said earlier and that is the clash of styles in general, not that ranting craziness before. their are major match-up problems for both teams because the systems are so different.
also im sorry to offend our newest members: i didnt exactly mean that all the guys on memphis are only looking for highlights, i meant it as how the game has been moving in recent years, but i understand how what i said clearly reads like this is what i meant. for that i am sorry.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 17, 2007 0:26:33 GMT -5
FROM THE COUPLE OF TIMES IVE SEEN MEMPHIS PLAY I TRULY BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE BETTER TALENT and the better athletes but then i truly believe the hoyas have the better team and system and maybe more eveness ten players down soo at their place willl be a war hopefully a good war.. go hoyas make us proud you are coming on adn remember ITS FEBRUARY GO HOYAS BEAT MEMPHIS AT THEIR HOUSE ROY ITS YOUR TIME BUDDY ;D ;D ;D
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Post by chitowntiger on Dec 17, 2007 0:41:59 GMT -5
I've only seen you against Alabama but I was very impressed with your half court defense. It was very solid. You're outside shooting is better than ours.
My guess is you will mostly play us zone and get us into a half-court game. I think Cal will counter by using pressure defense to speed the game up. I don't think you can't run with us, I just think our teams prefer to run their offense at a different tempo.
We love to run but we are having a tough time getting the pace up so far this year. A lot of that has to do with the Triangle and two we played against us the past two games. Our players were very uncomfortable attacking it. All the more reason I think you will zone us. The few times we've seen man to man this year I thought we looked good. Apparently so have the coaches we've gone up against and it's been zone city for about 90% of the time.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 17, 2007 1:18:10 GMT -5
FROM THE COUPLE OF TIMES IVE SEEN MEMPHIS PLAY I TRULY BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE BETTER TALENT and the better athletes Disagree. Mark it down....this Hoya team will produce more NBA players than those currently on Memphis. And if Memphis has a slight edge in athleticism the Hoyas have the bigger edge in skill (though perhaps Rose has the most upside of all players).
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Dec 17, 2007 1:24:58 GMT -5
I've only seen you against Alabama but I was very impressed with your half court defense. It was very solid. You're outside shooting is better than ours. My guess is you will mostly play us zone and get us into a half-court game. I think Cal will counter by using pressure defense to speed the game up. I don't think you can't run with us, I just think our teams prefer to run their offense at a different tempo. We love to run but we are having a tough time getting the pace up so far this year. A lot of that has to do with the Triangle and two we played against us the past two games. Our players were very uncomfortable attacking it. All the more reason I think you will zone us. The few times we've seen man to man this year I thought we looked good. Apparently so have the coaches we've gone up against and it's been zone city for about 90% of the time. Its true that zone is our default defense most of the time but we have the ability and the depth to go with man most if not all the way. Now our man d test subjects THIS season (the last two games against Jacksonville and Radford) have been far inferior to your team but it has shown to me at least that we are not at all uncomfortable running that kind of pressure D. And all Hoya fans remember some of the great games of the JTIII era (Duke in 2006, Notre Dame in the Big East Tournament Semifinal, and UNC in the Elite 8) where we were very capable of playing fast up tempo D and O. Saturday might just be one of those great games. As for if we "run" with you, it depends on what you mean. We certainitly will be shooting primarily high precentage shots but don't expect us to milk the clock every possesion, we will score when we see an opportunity and you might be suprised at the pace that we will move at. What you saw against Alabama was the sloppy version of Georgetown, which very well show its face on Saturday. If we play sloppy like that we will be more careful and try and slow it to a snails pace but if we come out hitting our shots this game will get into the 70's and 80's without much of an issue. Also I fear that the refs might have a large role in this game; a nationally televised game between two top 5 teams might lead some vain refs to put the spoltight on themselves and call some ticky tack fouls. Most people would argue that this will work in our favor but only if we hit our ft's, which has been a problem in previous games and (somewhat) more of a problem when on the road. I'm looking foward to one of the great regular season matchups of this year. Lots of future pros will be on both sides and I would not be shocked if this game is repeated in the Final Four or national title game.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 17, 2007 4:06:21 GMT -5
I think that you will see more zone than man - but you'll get your wish with man to man defense as III never goes with one defensive scheme for the entire game, usually he elects to change it immediately after time outs to screw with the plays designed by the other coach.
It seems likely that Calipari will go with the trapping press that Memphis has used in a lot of games. Fortunately, we've played teams that have used the full court press against us. Granted, none of those teams were Memphis - but at least we'll know what to do.
It will definitely be a good game. I think the conventional wisdom that the game is pace-dependent is flawed. Georgetown has a very high winning percentage when it fits 70 points. The list of teams that have tried to push the pace by creating turnovers from a tight man-to-man defense against us reads like a list of more notable Hoya victories - UNC and Duke being two notable examples. The only team that I can think of that has been successful in winning off of that strategy was Illinois two years ago.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 17, 2007 4:41:26 GMT -5
Link to their conversation on the game: www.ncaabbs.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=269483Apparently their offense is complicated. So complicated, in fact, that certified basketball genius, Tim Floyd, caused it serious problems by using a junior high gimmick defense against it. We also lost the Sweet 16 game. Good thing we rebounded by beating the team most people were picking to win it all. And Roy is no Oden - which is clear because they actually played one another and Roy out scored and out played him.
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 17, 2007 8:44:04 GMT -5
FROM THE COUPLE OF TIMES IVE SEEN MEMPHIS PLAY I TRULY BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE BETTER TALENT and the better athletes Disagree. Mark it down....this Hoya team will produce more NBA players than those currently on Memphis. And if Memphis has a slight edge in athleticism the Hoyas have the bigger edge in skill (though perhaps Rose has the most upside of all players). MCI--I think you are a great basketball mind, but man, how can you say that? You spend so much time defending the 7'2 Experience and then you go with Rose having the most upside? I mean, Rose is great, but no less than JT3 himself has said Roy has the opportunity to be the best basketball player in the world. That is some upside. ;D
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 17, 2007 9:23:49 GMT -5
The innovation of Memphis' offense is having players quicker than the guy defending them. Pretty sneaky.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Dec 17, 2007 10:00:05 GMT -5
It's funny how Calipari described their offense as "Princeton on steroids". Steroids are an illegal performance-enhancing substance last time I checked. Maybe JTIII will describe the end-of-game calmness of this Hoyas team as "Memphis on quaaludes"?
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Hoya50
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Post by Hoya50 on Dec 17, 2007 10:03:13 GMT -5
Link to their conversation on the game: www.ncaabbs.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=269483Apparently their offense is complicated. So complicated, in fact, that certified basketball genius, Tim Floyd, caused it serious problems by using a junior high gimmick defense against it. We also lost the Sweet 16 game. Good thing we rebounded by beating the team most people were picking to win it all. And Roy is no Oden - which is clear because they actually played one another and Roy out scored and out played him. sad to say i've seen memphis more this year than the hoyas. the memphis offense is no more complicated than a playground game - lots of dribbling and one on one play. rose, while extremely talented, doesn't let the game come to him. he'll force plays and frankly plays ahead of himself. that being said, he still scares me along with douglas roberts. my keys to the game: 1. defensive rebounding must be solid. 2. don't overplay on d. make memphis work since they really don't run plays. 3. feature roy in the post and work inside out. would LOVE to see summers on the block as well. saturday can't get here soon enough.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 17, 2007 10:40:30 GMT -5
Memphis' offense isn't playground. They space well and pass well. It is dribble drive based, but I think it is kind of silly to call any dribble drive based offense "playground." They run the same offense as Duke, basically. And there are some minimal similarities to our offense at a basic level -- neither team runs many plays and are more of a read and react type of offense. How each offense tends to put pressure on the defense (primarily) is different though.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 17, 2007 11:01:05 GMT -5
yeah i can see where calipari is coming from, seeing as their offense is based on reading the defense. It looks playground, cause they dribble drive so much.
They play agrressive man, and i hope we're able to burn them on it instead of getting flustered. SF is right they're very simillar to duke, except duke can shoot and memphis is more athletic. Duke got burned back door all night, lets hope the same happens.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 17, 2007 11:02:40 GMT -5
for us, turnovers and rebounding will decide this game as always. if we limit our TO's and don't give them 2nd chances we will be in great shape.
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